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I know that Jon isn't going to kill Mance; but right now that's what he's trying to do, penetrate a force of perhaps hundreds of Wildlings and kill their leader. It might help to have a silent, super-large wolf come along as backup. I don't know why Jon didn't think of it.

perhaps he did not want to bring a threat he was trying to come and make a truce?

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Tough crowd. As a Stan fan, myself, I suppose I can see why some are sour towards this episode, though I'm willing to give D&D the benefit of the doubt until next week.



I don't understand the complaints over scope, though. I thought this battle looked much more impressive than Blackwater. Sure, complain about the narrative all you want, but this was some phenomenal looking television -- visually.



I'm more sad over Grenn and Pyp than Ygritte.


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Does this forum have an ignore or block feature? I would really like to not have to see the Stannis fanatics whining all week.

Yes there is an ignore feature! It is very simple to do and extremely user friendly, im sure you can figure it out, just click into your profile go to edit settings and take it from there.

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Oh definitely, I really did like the episode but I do have some legitimate (legitimate) qualms about it. What you mentioned and Ghost were some of my favorite things and Jon did well overall. However, having an anticlimactic ending and a so so Ygritte death scene took away from the episode.

I agree I wish they would of squeezed in Stannis and Pip dying did not sit well with me at all.

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In fairness, I would point out that the end of this episode does stay true to the book in the fact that Stannis doesn't arrive after the hold Castle Black initially. The Night's Watch held and the Wildlings regrouped. It was the next day or so that Jon was sent (against his will) to treat with Mance. So Stannis not showing up at this point is true to the books.



I think Stannis will show up on this show to route the Wildings once and for all. But D and D (and Bryan Cogman do) do not deserve the benefit of the doubt where the Stannis character is involved. They clearly hate the character and have done their best to undercut him. The fact that it's Melisandre who made the decision to go to Castle Black in the first place is proof of that.


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From my previous post, I mean the Grey Worm subplot and Tyrion's story could have been cut last week to spread out the Battle at the Wall storyline.

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Tough crowd. As a Stan fan, myself, I suppose I can see why some are sour towards this episode, though I'm willing to give D&D the benefit of the doubt until next week.

I don't understand the complaints over scope, though. I thought this battle looked much more impressive than Blackwater. Sure, complain about the narrative all you want, but this was some phenomenal looking television -- visually.

I'm more sad over Grenn and Pyp than Ygritte.

Completely agree. This was amazing television, the CGI was great and the battle sequences were spectacular.

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I think I'm going to duck out until the vitriol settles down. I'm hardly a Stannis fan, but he got shafted. His moment will have lost its effectiveness and be overshadowed by next week's shocks. Not to mention, we were given an incomplete narrative tonight, with the second half of it shoved into an already crammed episode next week. Maybe they can pull it off, but people gleefully calling Stannis fans "butt-hurt" are ignoring some glaring issues.

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You know what? Fuck everybody saying "chill out", "you're butthurt... uhhh".

This episode you could feel people feeling for the watch, actually caring about them. As far as watchers know, it's over. The climax of the scene is gone and done. Next week is Stannis arriving AFTER the real mess is over too. It's not about "but it happens in book in this way!". In BOOK works. In TV, it doesn't work. It's a different media. They change things to the point to kill people who is still alive in the books (because cheap bastards, don't want to pay the actors next year), and they can't simply moves things a bi t so they can fit Stannis's arrival to THIS episode who only last around 50minutes?

I said nothing. I said to myself "ok, let's not overreact: HBO will make up for everything in ep. 9". And they simply didn't even include stannis in the episode.

We can't say this until we have seen episode 10. Plenty of episodes have picked up directly from a cliffhanger from previous and maintained the dramatic impact. Remember Ned's execution leading to the shot of a bloody Ice? Or Joffrey's death leading into the chaotic scene in S4E3? Let's just wait and see how they handle the next attack.

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Exactly had they added the additional time they'll be using in the last episode (65 min) to end this episode properly it would have been an excellent episode. I think it is legitimate most poster have a legitimate complaint about the abruptness of the ending and the lack of Stannis.

But then people would complain that that isn't enough time and needed to be longer. In fact, on other forums I saw people start to complain that there needs to be more than 10 minutes of Stannis and how disappointing that would be.

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Really disappointed. There were a couple of "oh cool" moments but beyond that. We lost Grenn & Pyp, Alliser was somehow supercool dude and Ygritte felt kind of forced. Somehow the circumstances in the books - finding her without knowing who'd shot the arrow and all that - seemed more appropriately tragic. I know it's only an adaptation but jeez. And then no Stannis at the end. Quite frankly I'd say this is one of the poorer episodes this season, and Blackwater knocks it out of the park by a long shot.

Agree.

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I gave up all hope.

Probably Jon Snow will be almost reaching an understanding with Mance when Stannis heavy cavalry shows up and starts killing women and children like some sort of Wonded Knee, while Jon screams "Noooo!"

I want this to happen just to read the comments

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Have to conclude that this episode was quite underwhelming. Now don't get me wrong the battle itself was pretty damn good and I was enjoying it loads but to finish it with Jon just walking out like that and no Stannis was disappointing.



The main part of the Battle at the Wall, I had been looking forward to was Stannis arrival and how D & D portrayed it on screen, Now I just feel like, even though we know it's going to happen next week, it won't quite have the same impact due to Tyrion killing Tywin, Bran meeting Bloodraven and hopefully, although I'm not holding my breath at this point, the arrival of Lady Stoneheart. I think they could have done so much more to this episode considering the money they spent on it.



However on the flip side, I suppose when we think of it now, the Finale is going to be jam packed with a tonne of major WTF moments, here's hoping they have captured it right.


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Does this forum have an ignore or block feature? I would really like to not have to see the Stannis fanatics whining all week.

Yeah same i would miss D&D fanatics and apologists whining and saying how good was this that they didn't include Stannis. D&D Fanatics are gold class.

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I think I'm going to duck out until the vitriol settles down. I'm hardly a Stannis fan, but he got shafted. His moment will have lost its effectiveness and be overshadowed by next week's shocks. Not to mention, we were given an incomplete narrative tonight, with the second half of it shoved into an already crammed episode next week. Maybe they can pull it off, but people gleefully calling Stannis fans "butt-hurt" are ignoring some glaring issues.

I said somewhere that Stannis must die early in the next book. What other excuse can there be for the way the show totally downplays that story?

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Does this forum have an ignore or block feature? I would really like to not have to see the Stannis fanatics whining all week.

how is anyone whining when all people are wanting is the climax we were waiting for from the books. its easy to ignore people but well you ignore to many of us you might miss GOOD things we may say one day ;)

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The one thought that kept going through my mind this episode was that Neil Marshall has probably heard so many people whining about no chain in Blackwater, that he made damn sure he pit a chain in this episode. I really felt like this was a loving wink.



Overall, this was a really solid episode with strong performances throughout. The only complaint that I have is that the scale of this battle just didn't seem to be captured. I wanted to see more giants, mammoths and wildlings. Oh well, the budget is what it is.


Edited by ¡Hola lionel messi

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Great performance, Ser Alliser!

He was awesome tonight. Loved his one-to-one talk with Jon before the fighting began, that was great.

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