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Sammy the slayer forced himself on her without consent.

+10

True, Sam didn't get a 12-page sexual contract signed by Gilly, with 4 witnesses and a probate judge, giving Sam all permissions, authorizations, endorsements, and both implied and express consent to give her a soft smooch on the lips.

Same trap Jaime fell into.

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Absurd, The Watchers on the Wall blew Blackwater out of the... well water, as far as I'm concerned. This was one the best episodes of the series, but everybody is up in arms because of preconceived notions, as usual.


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I agree I wish they would of squeezed in Stannis and Pip dying did not sit well with me at all.

I understand they were trying to rev up the emotional appeal! but that was harsh.

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Did anyone else notice that Jon used Karl Tanner's spit move in the fight against Styr?

I completely missed that tbh, I hardly paid the episode any attention at all. I was too busy telling everyone how badass the end of the episode was gonna be when an unexpected force showed up.

whoops

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Was anyone else annoyed that Jon abandoned the battle to cradle a dying Ygritte in his arms? Definitely not Lord Commander behavior. He could have saved one of his brothers in that time. Why couldn't their tearful goodbyes have happened a couple of minutes later after the battle was over? Why did the kid have to kill her instead of a random arrow? Seemed far to convenient.



At this rate, folks who haven't read the books will have no reason to think that Jon deserves to be LC. They'll probably accept it because he's a main character, but isn't Game of Thrones supposed to better than relying on TV tropes? Thorne seemed quite competent in this episode. Why should the brothers of the Night's Watch pick Jon over him? Other than that he's young, good looking and the main character.



From a dramatic standpoint, Stannis should have showed up, but from a narrative standpoint it wouldn't have made sense. The only way it could have worked is if parts of the battle (like the initial raid) had happened in prior episodes, which would have been a better choice. I've had serious problems with pacing in this season, as well as the effect many of the show-only scenes have had on the narrative. They could have taken out the pointless Craster's Keep sequence and spent more time on the lead-up to the battle, perhaps even had Ygritte's death occur in an earlier episode.



At its best, this season has still been great, but based on how the writers have struggled to weave together a narrative/prioritize in a way that makes sense even with ample book material to draw on, I"m having serious doubts about next season when they'll have to make up even more material and pull of some extreme narrative gymnastics in order for the timeline to make sense.


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People defending the episode are saying the battle would have had to be rushed. The episode was like 45 minutes long and the actual battle didn't start until halfway thru it. But I'm sure multiple Gilly scenes, Jon and Sam and Aemon talking about love and just the overall preparation took a large portion of the episode.

Maybe if they spared us a good 15-20 minutes of Grey Worm/Missandei and Tyrion talking about the beetle crushing moron they could have for in 15 minutes of preparation at the Wall that took up so much of the episode.

Exactly. Also wasting time with Gilly arc. Send her away to bring her back just to talk about something everyone knows. Sam likes her. We get it.

Fill those ridiculous fanfic segments with happenings on the wall. Have the Wall besieged by Mance in ep 7, put it on the backburner, show us some Lord Snow atop the wall, then in ep 9, have the Thenns finally attack the south-side while Mance full presses the North side. Have that be the first 35mins of ep 9. Have the last 16 mins be the Mance moot culminating in a heroic Stannis appearance.

That is the pacing you get in the books. That should have been the pacing we got here. Not cliche love talk and cliche sword play. Fun to watch but GoT is much much more.

Edited by Justin Danford

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I'm so confused about why the fanatics are worried that Stannis will have lost his moment. If anything, the show went out of it's way to set up Stannis being some hero. They set up Jon looking as the hero of battle numero uno who talks to other heros of the battle about how they are totally fucked because Mance still so greatly outnumbers them, then our hero Jon goes off into the sunset to meet with Mance without wolf or weapon totally thinking he's going to die and he'll be surrounded by giants and mammoths and 100k wildlings and it will look impressively sinister for Jon until suddenly, this dude comes out of the trees and saves the fucking day. That's a better set up for Stannis in the books because this time, Jon volunteered rather than where he was forced to do it in the books. He's walking out there like a boss and if the negotiation doesn't go well, he's dead. Of course, Jon may likely be negotiating with Mance, like he was in the books, when Stannis shows up, but still...come on. How much more of a "stannis saves the day" set up do you fanatics need? Get a grip.


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I understand they were trying to rev up the emotional appeal! but that was harsh.

yes its like they are going to play it up that Jon has no one by his side on the Wall.

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He was awesome tonight. Loved his one-to-one talk with Jon before the fighting began, that was great.

I do like what they've done with Thorne and if there's a baby Jesus, Slynt will get caught deserting.

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Did anyone else notice that Jon used Karl Tanner's spit move in the fight against Styr?

Yes 😜

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Is it possible to criticize an episode without being called a "fanboy" or a "purist." This is a message board devoted to dissecting episodes. Sure, some of the criticism may go too far, but if you want cheerleading go to IGN. I'll take a "purist" over a smug cheerleader any day.


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Mother fuck a Stannis Baratheon. How badass was Jon fucking Snow??

You insane Stannis cult members will have your fun next week. Chill the fuck out lunatics.

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Imagine how much more powerful it would have been if it had happened like seven episodes ago, like it should have. Not after spending an entire season barely even seeing Ygritte and Jon Snow barely ever talking about her.

They deviated heavily from the source this season and it unfortunately it's not working.

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