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There's no battle when he arrives..who would they have been fighting..Jon goes alone in the books. He is treating with Mance and he hears a horn then Stannis crashes through.

The siege of Castle Black is not a peaceful affair, it isn't even as peaceful as most sieges where a force could just starve out a castle. Mance is besieging from only one side and is trying to escape an enemy so he needs to get across quickly. The Wildlings are constantly attacking even after the initial failed assault, in the books Jon Snow leads the defense against multiple assaults by the Wildlings. A siege, specifically this siege, is almost a constant state of warfare. In the show however it is made to look like one big battle followed by, based on the promo for next week, Jon and Mance making peace and teaming up only for Stannis to show up and slaughter a bunch of people who are just waiting around.

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Are you trying to say Brienne bites off the Hound's ear? :laugh:

Well as I said on another thread it's either that or they join together to fight a third party.

I don't think Brienne is actually after the Hound in the show.

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It blows my mind that posters here have complained for 4 years about the show being unfaithful to the books and have nitpicked every single detail to death, then made up their minds about the pacing of this episode and are ripping the show apart because it was faithful to the pacing of the battle at the Wall. I've heard so many complaints about major events being rushed, but now people are upset because the show didn't rush the battle enough to give Stannis his moment in the sun. I'm a Stannis supporter for the IT, but the first skirmish at the Wall was about Jon Snow. A more prominent, a more important character in the books. The outrage here isn't because the show has been unfaithful, but because the show didn't rush the wall story line and make it about Stannis. There is no logic here. The naysayers here are guilty of the very same character bias they've accused D&D of previously. It's so sad because they won't be able to enjoy one of the most cinematic, intense episodes of television produced to date.

:agree:

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The siege of Castle Black is not a peaceful affair, it isn't even as peaceful as most sieges where a force could just starve out a castle. Mance is besieging from only one side and is trying to escape an enemy so he needs to get across quickly. The Wildlings are constantly attacking even after the initial failed assault, in the books Jon Snow leads the defense against multiple assaults by the Wildlings. A siege, specifically this siege, is almost a constant state of warfare. In the show however it is made to look like one big battle followed by, based on the promo for next week, Jon and Mance making peace and teaming up only for Stannis to show up and slaughter a bunch of people who are just waiting around.

It's not a battle though, there is no fighting going on. That''s why when the horn is blown Jon looks up, because it's out of the blue.

Jon and Mance are not teaming up in the show..he clearly states that he is 'going to kill every last man at CB'.

Edited by NightStark

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Now if I remember correctly the NW only had 102 men at last count. During this episode at least 39 NW deaths were shown, and I'm sure I probably missed a few. (yeah I counted, SO WHAT?) Which means there are AT MOST 63 NW left at CB. Why do I get the feeling the show will ignore this fact, probably having the NW multiply through Meiosis, so that there will be more survivors?


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Annoyed at the ending and Stannis saving the day being delayed till the next episode. I consider this a book spoiler, just tells me that he is not going to be an important character since his storyline is mainly Melisandre and Davos, and now you have Jon Snow stealing his thunder as well. Probably won't survive the Boltons in TWoW.


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I have no idea about how D&D feel about Stannis, nor do I think it really matters since this is their baby and they can tell it anyway they want. Still, my big problem is that a lot of Stannis fans lack the ability to articulate why Stannis' arc is problematic for the show. The thing about Melisandre being the one credited with Stannis' decisions is a good point because it has made Davos out to be a completely useless character since there is no angel on Stannis' shoulder to balance out that devil (I'm likening Mel to the devil here). From what I recall, they haven't yet made the shift from Stannis being reliant on Mel to him relying more on Davos.

In fairness he relies on Davos in part because Mel tells him to both in the TV show and the books.

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I have no idea about how D&D feel about Stannis, nor do I think it really matters since this is their baby and they can tell it anyway they want. Still, my big problem is that a lot of Stannis fans lack the ability to articulate why Stannis' arc is problematic for the show. The thing about Melisandre being the one credited with Stannis' decisions is a good point because it has made Davos out to be a completely useless character since there is no angel on Stannis' shoulder to balance out that devil (I'm likening Mel to the devil here). From what I recall, they haven't yet made the shift from Stannis being reliant on Mel to him relying more on Davos.

Stannis MADE this decision. Even according to George R Martin. It's the one RIGHTEOUS thing he does. And his moment won't have even an ounce of the emotional imapact it should have had..

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To be fair, they took his most epic moment of the entire series through 5 books and instead of allowing it to be the climax of it's own episode, it's now going to be the 4th or 5th most memorable part of a different episode. Odd decision.

You call Stannis' arrival the most epic moment yet it doesn't even happen at the end of aSoS. See, things that don't occur right at the end of something can still be epic. I was really looking forward to the Stannis scene but now I'm just looking forward to it next week. Having it not be the final scene of the episode doesn't make me like it any less, just like how it wasn't the final chapter in aSoS doesn't make me like it less.

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That's all one scene, Brienne confronts the Hound, you can tell it's her armour.

Fuck are you serious? They are really about to disrespect the Hound like that too huh? Damn it D&D fuck you guys.

Finale - 66 minutes

1) Bran/Reeds and Bloodraven

2) Dany/dragons

3) Stannis at the wall

4) Jon/Mance

5) Arya/Hound - and apparently Brienne punking Hound now too??

6) Tyrion/Tywin/Shae/escape

7) Jaime/Cersei

Plus all the made up scenes that D&D will inevitably put in :rolleyes:

I don't see how the finale will be effectively hit all these plot points effectively

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Honestly, I didn't like this episode. There's something about this episode that feels off - And for certain It can't compare to Blackwater. You can see in this one that there was more budget involved, but Blackwater had actual stakes and had tons of characters beloved and known by the Unsullied. Honestly, as much as Grenn and Pyp are nice boys, I couldn't care for them the same as I cared for other characters in the show.

I don't think focusing on the Wall was honestly a good idea - The finale is going to be crammed. I mean, Stannis didn't even showed up! Stannis is not my favorite character, but this episode could have been edited to end with Jon/Mance and their parlay and Stannis arriving at the Wall. Also, Ygritte's death had no emotional impact, especially compared to it's book counterpart. Rose Leslie tried, but Kit decided to go full-out grumpy cat expression.

What? At Blackwater the only people I gave a crap about were Tyrion and Bronn. Shae? Eh. Sansa? Seemed like she was gonna live no matter who won. Cersei? Man if only we could be so lucky Joff? Hahahahaha breathes hahaha The Hound? Yeah wasn't really a fan of him at this point, and when he said 'Fuck the King', it pleased me. Lancel? Yeah I was pretty happy with his spearing.

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So, if we don't get Stannis till next week, then what else will we have time for before the season ends? I thought Jaime would get Tyrion out of prison and Tyrion would kill Tywin and Shae before this season ends. ???

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Really? I thought this place was full of "D&D are great" cult members.

Seriously man, we know you're leading Stan's van here but you don't need to personally engage every poster that found the episode good or that criticise the Stannis hardliners.

Edited by NightStark

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They didn't get as far as I thought they would in this episode...

Does this mean no Lady Stoneheart at the end of the final episode? I'll be so disappointed.

After this episode I'm thinking LSH will not be making an appearance.

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So, if we don't get Stannis till next week, then what else will we have time for before the season ends? I thought Jaime would get Tyrion out of prison and Tyrion would kill Tywin and Shae before this season ends. ???

He will.

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Fuck are you serious? They are really about to disrespect the Hound like that too huh? Damn it D&D fuck you guys.

Finale - 66 minutes

1) Bran/Reeds and Bloodraven

2) Dany/dragons

3) Stannis at the wall

4) Jon/Mance

5) Arya/Hound - and apparently Brienne punking Hound now too??

6) Tyrion/Tywin/Shae/escape

7) Jaime/Cersei

Plus all the made up scenes that D&D will inevitably put in :rolleyes:

I don't see how the finale will be effectively hit all these plot points effectively

7 dvided by 66=9 nine minutes each.

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