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Wait, so I haven't watched this episode yet, but...... what is this I hear about Stannis not arriving at the Wall yet? What the actual fuck???? Someone say it ain't true. I seriously do not want to have to wait another week to finally see Stannis again.

He's not, the preview's confirm he's arriving next week though (you see horses charging through the woods at wildlings)

Personally I've become more critical of the show but have no issues with this ep. I loved it.

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Who said I am always pro-D&D? Frankly, I'm insulted and offended by your assumptions and defamation of character. I simply made a comment about the vinegar running through this place tonight and you speak these falsities about me.

Insulted, offended, defamation of character? Come on man...it's a freaking message board.

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Disappointed they didn't end with Stannis showing up but set up a good cliffhanger for show watchers. I think most of them will be surprised when Stannis saves them at the last minutes but still, I thought that was a great episode. Great fight sequences and freakin' Mammoths! I thought it was better than Blackwater.

Edited by Jay92

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I am genuinely puzzled why do we keep talking about one thing that wasn't in tonight's episode aka Stannis, when there are so many things that sucked IN the episode? Question for the philosophers, apparently...

Because the debates aren't about what makes good television, but what goes against everybody's preconceived notions about the perfect adaptation of ASOIAF. Again, the pacing of the battle was more faithful to the books than what many posters wanted or were expecting, and that's what is upsetting so many. Jon Snow was one of my favorite characters in the books, and he's been my biggest disappointment in the show. I'm also a big fan of Stannis in the books, and I greatly prefer SD's Stannis performance than Kit's Jon Snow. But in the grand scheme of things we needed a good Jon Snow episode. The first couple of chapters about the battle were about Jon coming into his own and learning how to lead. I remember all of the outrage over the show combining all of the battles into one episode, and now everybody is upset that it is split over two episodes, not because it's bastardizing the books, but because certain posters wanted to rush the story to make it all about Stannis. Stannis will get his moment, but not at the expense of Jon Snow, who is a more important character, in the books and the show.

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If you think they are following the books then this is a big mistake. They killed Grenn and Pyp who are fully alive and well in the books.

And doing absolutely nothing of importance.

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I thought the episode was pretty good, though it was not as good as Blackwater.

Highlights - Sam growing by leaps and bounds, bagging a Thenn and promising to stay with Gilly. Thorne vs. Tormund! Giants and mammoths! Grenn rallying the other Crows at the gate as they face their doom. Ghost coming out and fighting for our boys!

Could have done without - Anything with Slynt, the Wildlings' pre-battle discussion of Ygritte/Jon Snow. I don't understand why Pip and Grenn were killed off.

It is a shame that they're leaving the resolution of the Wildlings/Night's Watch battle, which should get at least 15 minutes, for the season finale, which will be utterly jam-packed with Important Stuff. They can't leave out or shorten the Tyrion scenes or the Dany/dragons business, or Bran communing with the trees or whatnot. I doubt we'll see much of Our Man Stannis next week. On the other hand, there may be more Sam/Gilly billing and cooing.

I agree with all but Slynt he needed to be there I hope they do as much justice as they can next week with the finale.

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I don't understand why Pip and Grenn were killed off.

They're very minor characters who don't have any meaningful role in subsequent books, and serve (in theory) to give some emotional resonance to the battle.

In practice the two of them have had very, very little screentime, so resonance is rather muted. They'd have been better-served by developing them a bit more before their deaths this season.

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So with the lack of Stannis in this episode, does this mean Jon won't become LC this season? I figured he would, but there's way too many things that have to happen at the wall, and only one episode to go now.



It was sad to see Pyp and Grenn die, but at least Edd is still around.

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Trust me, sometimes I feel they are doing the service to the character by omitting her.

Keep wondering... Let it be shrouded with mystery...

Wellcome to the club of the abused characters. You ve a place to sit between Jaime and Stannis.

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And doing absolutely nothing of importance.

Grenn helped take out a giant, yo! Pyp showed us true bravery!

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I am genuinely puzzled why do we keep talking about one thing that wasn't in tonight's episode aka Stannis, when there are so many things that sucked IN the episode? Question for the philosophers, apparently...

To be quite fair, I don't think the episode sucked. But It was certainly not the best episode this season, and I'm not sure if it even makes it to the Top 5 of the season.

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Because the debates aren't about what makes good television, but what goes against everybody's preconceived notions about the perfect adaptation of ASOIAF. Again, the pacing of the battle was more faithful to the books than what many posters wanted or were expecting, and that's what is upsetting so many. Jon Snow was one of my favorite characters in the books, and he's been my biggest disappointment in the show. I'm also a big fan of Stannis in the books, and I greatly prefer SD's Stannis performance than Kit's Jon Snow. But in the grand scheme of things we needed a good Jon Snow episode. The first couple of chapters about the battle were about Jon coming into his own and learning how to lead. I remember all of the outrage over the show combining all of the battles into one episode, and now everybody is upset that it is split over two episodes, not because it's bastardizing the books, but because certain posters wanted to rush the story to make it all about Stannis. Stannis will get his moment, but not at the expense of Jon Snow, who is a more important character, in the books and the show.

I advise you to drink a lot of coffee or red bull next week, because I have a feeling that if you blink a couple of times you might miss Stannis and his moment.

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I expect the same from you. I got called a fanatic by you i believe. Fanatic > Apologist.

I don't believe I addressed that directly to, but if I did, my apologies. In fact, I admire your devotion to the character. In my opinion, it's a bit silly to be as upset as some people are, but perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. Fanatic was the first to pop into my head but of course, it isn't the right choice. No offense intended. :cheers:

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Document this thread, this is the first time you'll see so many people complain that a certain storyline wasn't rushed.


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I thought the episode was pretty great. Sam and Jon's talk about the wording of their oath was right off message boards like this. My only real complaint is Slynt being a total coward. Can't we have greyer characters? The dude can't just be a cunt he has to be a useless coward too?


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I advise you to drink a lot of coffee or red bull next week, because I have a feeling that if you blink a couple of times you might miss Stannis and his moment.

Thank you, but I will drink a full horn of ale dressed as Robert Baratheon as I do every week.

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Leaving Stannis out was definitely the right move. It would all have been too rushed otherwise.

Imo, I would have:

-Cut about 20 minutes of questionably relevant non-book material during the previous episode, and put the battle prep scenes for this episode in there

-Added 15 minutes to the runtime for this episode

To have an extra 35 minutes to devote to Mance/Stannis.

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