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I win in the reader married to non reader bc husband said I thought something was supposed to happen with the dwarf. First episode he's displayed any comprehension.

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-We get it, Gilly and Sam like each other. No need to spend two scenes on that. I did like Sam taking a few levels in badass and delivering a few great lines (open the fucking door!).



-Maester Aemon is always nice to see, he's the best of the elderly actors if you ask me.



-The battle atop the Wall was great overall. Only bit I didn't like was that the scale was a bit low. Not enough men and giants. But that's understandable since it was probing defense time. And the scythe was a great idea, kudos to whoever thought of that. Also, Edd taking charge of things was great. Piss on Jon, I want this guy as Lord Commander.



-I think this needs to be said: Fookin giants riding fookin mammoths.



-Also, giant archers, which is just straight up brilliant. Much more believable than wildling shortbows shooting 700 feet up. I cringed at the guy who got hit by a ballista-like arrow, fell down said 700 feet, then got impaled on a spike. Ouch. Oberyn can't complain after that one.



-I got almost in tears at Grenn and friends reciting their oaths while facing down a big stonking giant. Pure. Fucking. Badass. Best scene in the episode.



-Ygritte dying was a bit let down by Kit's acting (which was otherwise pretty great) and by the fact I actually wanted the bitch dead after she killed Pyp.



-Loved the Jon/Styr duel, well choreographed and much better than Lord Snow's tussle with Karl the Fookin Legend.



-Alistair Thorne actually growing a set of brass balls and delivering great lines. Hope he survives to stay a lovable douche.



-The fight choreography in Castle Black, however, was pretty poor in general. I counted almost 40 Watchers dying, almost three quarters of them at the hands of Tormund, Styr or Ygritte. It's a wonder they weren't utterly routed at all. I get the main wildling characters are good fighters, but they kinda went overboard. Especially cruel to then only give one kill to poor Ghost.



-No Stannis is pretty surprising. I'll reserve final judgement based on how it's done next episode, but I'm pretty sure the series would have been better served by having him save the day. Instead he's going to be in what is possibly the most crammed episode of the series so far.




So yeah, overall it was very solid, with amazing visuals, great scenes and enough badassery on both sides to make up for Stannis's absence. But it still falls short of Blackwater and its amazing dialog.


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This is the first time in the show we had an accurate depiction of aerial strategic movements. That pan from the north of the wall to the south of the wall from the firing archers perspective, with arrows falling on to the encroaching Wildling band attacking the South gate was incredible. It really gave us a perspective of the strategic landscape of the battle and wall at that time and I think it helped the unsullied understand the tactical scenarios that were about to present themselves to the Night's Watch.


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Omg, ouch, that passive-aggressive burn really put us in our place lol

Sorry, it was wrong of me to be emotional and irrational in an environment like this.

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I'm sorry but, no. That crap ^ plus Craster's deserters has been the absolute worst of the worst this season. I usually agree with you too, Ser! You even taught me to love Sansa! Rewatch it, I beg you! As an ode to the NW in the back of your mind. With no other expectations....I promise you, you will see some merits in it.

I do understand what they intended and I wished they had done the better job. I am not complaining about Stannis, I am actually complaining of the episode itself. When you haven't made sure that your characters for such centric episode are fleshed out enough, you do have a problem in maintaining the attention for 50 minutes. This was like never ending marathon. I do wanted nice NW episode, I wanted it to be as epic as Blackwater, but it wasn't. It failed where it should have been the strongest.

Yes it was, it was all about Jon's growing role as a leader. If you think this episode was humorless, I encourage you to rewatch it. The first fifteen minutes of the episode was full of great comedic relief, Sam particularly was a scene-stealer that could give Dinklage a run for his money.

This was all about Jon's growth? yes, it can be said that way... But, this episode failed to make a nuance in that approach. It was basically "OK, here I am, nothing changed, let me take control" There were ways to make this episode better, even without being super purist about it. the structural issues, no fleshed out characters, some strange pause, and illogical gate subplot (why do they need a mammoth, when a single giant could have pulled it up?) Yes, Sam saying "open the fucking door" might have pushed the right buttons for some, and it was indeed funny, but at the end, that's just not enough.

This was the main problem with this episode. Right here. The episode tried to be Blackwater in every step of the way. You can even compare the preparation scenes in Blackwater to similar scenes this episode. The problem is, however, that we haven't had a emotional connection to characters in the Wall to care for them, much less to hear their conversations. Instead of sounding like character-building, it sounded like filler. Pyp and Green, as I've said before, are nice lads, but they're only that. They have had less screen-time than Missandei and Grey Worm, why should we care about their deaths? And Ygritte's death just didn't work. I understood what they were trying to do, but it certainly didn't work as intended. Ygritte's death, one of my favorite scenes in the books, shattered. It just felt uninspired, even with a bigger budget.

This... I mean, the characters on the Wall are just group of extras, with exception of Sam and Jon... When you have this type of episode, you make sure you have enough to make it through the end. Blackwater had Tyrion, Sansa, Cersei, Hound, Bronn, all established characters. This one had nothing. It had Jon whose "learning to lead" path was done in such weird way that it is almost hysterical, and Sam who was more or less confused about what to do, with a deal of courage... The rest of gang is flat line... This just didn't push the right buttons, as the episode, not as adaptation.

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There was a time when I would ask for explanation, but not anymore...

And, btw, as someone who has watched Vikings, I do believe this was such bad episode.

Was this simple enough, dear?

Being a total shit doesnt suit you either. I have a hard time buying it, mate. No offense. I get that you dislike the episode, but i think you are trying way too hard to be edgy about it.

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-Also, giant archers, which is just straight up brilliant. Much more believable than wildling shortbows shooting 700 feet up. I cringed at the guy who got hit by a ballista-like arrow, fell down said 700 feet, then got impaled on a spike. Ouch. Oberyn can't complain after that one.

Can't wait until Edd mentions how lucky that guy was, missing the rocks and all.

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I'm thinking it will be between Jon and Slynt for LC of the Night's Watch, and then Sam threatens Slynt and says he'll tell everyone how much of a coward he was during the battle, unless he drops out of of the race for LC.

I can see that. Way easier than teaching/FX-ing talking birds. But that's next season I'm sure.

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I wish all these Stannis cry babies would shut up. We needed a Gregor Clegane orgy with Ros's ghost, Ygritte, and Shae to bring the battle full circle.

I don't even but I'd totally watch that

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I love how you described it, as a love story to the NW. Because that explains exactly why I liked the episode despite it being a bit underwhelming for me.

The aristocrats of Westeros are all too busy killing each other. A bunch of exiled thieves, rapists, criminals and other undesirables are the only ones holding their backs and doing their duty to the Realm.

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Yeah, how come we only saw Ghost take one wildling down?

It's almost comical how the only direwolf action we get each time they're involved in a fight is a .5 second shot of a direwolf leaping from off screen and tackling somebody out of frame. I completely understand it's due to budgetary/practical reasons, but it's still disappointing that we see so little of them. Everyone I was with literally cheered when Sam opened the door to see massive old Ghost sitting there ready to fight, then he kills one guy, and is never seen or referenced again. I guess it could be implied that him being released had a big part in turning the tide of the battle going on in Castle Black. I'm sure he ate his share of faces.

Edited by clawson24

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-I got almost in tears at Grenn and friends reciting their oaths while facing down a big stonking giant. Pure. Fucking. Badass. Best scene in the episode.

Me too. This was the kind of passion and energy I expected from Oberyn during the fight, but didn't get it. Loved Grenn! Had goosebumps when they were reciting the vows.

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Being a total shit doesnt suit you either. I have a hard time buying it, mate. No offense. I get that you dislike the episode, but i think you are trying way too hard to be edgy about it.

I have to laugh at this comment... Thanks for the compliment...

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It blows my mind that posters here have complained for 4 years about the show being unfaithful to the books and have nitpicked every single detail to death, then made up their minds about the pacing of this episode and are ripping the show apart because it was faithful to the pacing of the battle at the Wall. I've heard so many complaints about major events being rushed, but now people are upset because the show didn't rush the battle enough to give Stannis his moment in the sun. I'm a Stannis supporter for the IT, but the first skirmish at the Wall was about Jon Snow. A more prominent, a more important character in the books. The outrage here isn't because the show has been unfaithful, but because the show didn't rush the wall story line and make it about Stannis. There is no logic here. The naysayers here are guilty of the very same character bias they've accused D&D of previously. It's so sad because they won't be able to enjoy one of the most cinematic, intense episodes of television produced to date.

Sweet darling, I crooned from your first sentence.

Shit got real. Really really SKYRIM real! Mammoths and giants? Fuck this milkdrinker blockade. They've taken on dragons and dovakiin, no fucking way are some namby-pamby emotionally-scarred teenagers getting the better of them.... Oh SNAP they got Fus Ro Dah'd!

Edited by PhoenixFlame

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I'm glad Stan didn't show up, this was the Nights watch's moment, don't need Stannis coming in at the last second and taking all the glory.

:agree:

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This was all about Jon's growth? yes, it can be said that way... But, this episode failed to make a nuance in that approach. It was basically "OK, here I am, nothing changed, let me take control" There were ways to make this episode better, even without being super purist about it. the structural issues, no fleshed out characters, some strange pause, and illogical gate subplot (why do they need a mammoth, when a single giant could have pulled it up?) Yes, Sam saying "open the fucking door" might have pushed the right buttons for some, and it was indeed funny, but at the end, that's just not enough.

There's nuance there, but you won't see it if you hate the approach. My friends were curious about the giant opening the gate on his own, but then we thought about and came to a consensus. He was running on adrenaline after being injured and watching his fellow wildlings and giant buddy die, and his mammoth run off in agony. It's like when a normal human finds the strength to lift a car off of a loved one. If you paid the same person a $1000 to do it for sport, it wouldn't be possible, but the human body can do amazing things when it's running off of adrenaline. Imagine what a Giant can do in a similar situation. Just because a Giant could theoretically lift a gate like that under certain circumstances, why waste your energy when you can have a beast of burden perform the same task? Have the mammoth open the gate so you can save your energy for the actual attack at the gate. When plan A fails spectacularly, go for plan B and open that shit yourself, because you're a giant.

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Grenn needs a fucking statue in King's Landing. True Hero #S4.E9neverforget

Knock down that Joffrey Wolfslayer shit and make a real monument.

For real. Grenn is a legend I really liked the kid playing him. He will be missed. I thought the night watch oath scene was awesome. Now his watch has ended :( :crying:

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I was confused...more because of the bottle of wine percolating in my veins, but still confused we faded to afterlife white. But I don't care as long as Stannis makes an epic arrival next ep. Chronologically it wasn't until Jon was getting his suicide missioning on anyway.



Pwnage of the hour:



- Tormund going rabid...and Jon putting him down. Just a tranq, whew!


- Samwell "Open the Fucking Gate" Tarly. Heartsbane has levitated from its sheathe and is flying across hill and heather!


- Ghost being needed...only Sam understands his badassery.


- Grenn, the legend of fooking Castle Black ally.


- Samwell "I'm not dying until I've kissed mah woman" Tarly.


- Grenn, the legend of getting the teacher to leave the classroom so everyone could sit on desks and hang out...while Slynt hid in the lady's room.


- Olly...um...Satin? Please don't be Satin's stand-in because I want adorable Jon/Stain UST...but I dunno there's still Stannis coming so I might be slaked.


- Samwell "You May Be Fucking Ten But Step the Fuck Up" Tarly.


- Jon vs. Qhorin Halfhand was the battle Westeros deserved, but not the one it needed...because it knew Jon vs. Styr was coming, and it was packing ANVILS AND HAMMERS.


Edited by PhoenixFlame

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