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Fuck this shit! They killed Pyp and Grenn!



Also, I never thought I would be rooting for Alliser Thorne to kill Tormund Giantsbane



Styr or whatever his name was fought like a beast! He was awesome



Overall the episode was pretty good. Shame about Stannis, though. Showing up next episode won't have the same effect



Also, I NEED Melisandre to burn that fucking owl next episode! That's like, her most badass moment ever

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Tough crowd. As a Stan fan, myself, I suppose I can see why some are sour towards this episode, though I'm willing to give D&D the benefit of the doubt until next week.

I don't understand the complaints over scope, though. I thought this battle looked much more impressive than Blackwater. Sure, complain about the narrative all you want, but this was some phenomenal looking television -- visually.

I'm more sad over Grenn and Pyp than Ygritte.

I'd sincerely like others to suggest episodes of television that were more epic in scope, with more impressive visual effects, showcasing more action across multiple fronts. At times I forgot it was even an episodic television show I was watching. The Giants, Mammoths, the Scythe chopping down people on the Wall, aerial views, long-takes of fighting, etc. were all absolutely top notch. That giant storming down the tunnel while Grenn and the other NW recited their vows. Epicness.

Edited by clawson24

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No reason for them not to. They aren't really in the books until after the battle anyway, right? No need to cast actors or confuse people with questions like "why the bleep didn't they help" until Season 5.

Yeah... right when Jon has almost drawn peace terms with Mance, then Stannis the Menace comes storming in to save? the day... Tah tah ta Dah! Red Witch and all. Should take about 5 min to cover thoroughly imo.

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Why is no one else concerned about the lack of Gregor Clegane and Ros this episode? I think you guys need to reread the books a little bit.

I do at least. What are you on about?

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I know Jon said it, but why are we supposed to think Castle Black will fall?

Main threat was the attack by the back door with elite warriors and its over. All done in Mances side was a Joke. Their arrows just dont reach the wall, if they send a mamouth you set him on fire, and if they send you a giant youll stop him with six men. The door was not even broked, just lifted. And the climbing guys had 0 chanes of reaching the top.

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Grenn needs a fucking statue in King's Landing. True Hero #S4.E9neverforget

Knock down that Joffrey Wolfslayer shit and make a real monument.

NO. JOKE.

I just remembered that Pyp and Grenn were put on a bus so to speak in the books. I guess it makes sense that Grenn got Noye'd and hes all the more awesome for it.

Also, I NEED Melisandre to burn that fucking owl next episode! That's like, her most badass moment ever

lel yiss.

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GUYS!!!

Did anyone notice Jon spit blood in styrs face in order to blind him/ kill him?!

Jon learned that from Karl at the battle at crasters! That scene had a purpose! Yay!

Yeaaahh... I remember Kit explaining in one of the teasers for this season that they would focus on Jon learning to "fight to win" instead of "fighting with honor" over the course of the season, and they had him fighting Styr playing will he said that, I was waiting for the moment he did something more "dirty" after his fight with Karl... As soon as he spit, I was like "Fock Yeah!"

By the way- Yes, I would have liked to see Stannis make it in to tonight's episode. I kind of figured he would be at the end, with his Big Damn Hero moment.

Also, I wish Leslie had gotten a few more last words with Jon, but not a huge deal. As mentioned, would have preferred to have him not know who the shooter was, or whether or not he may have been the shooter. But, it's T.V., they would have probably had to cut a lot of the focus they had on Rose during the battle to really pull off the suspense of Jon (and us) subconciously wondering- not knowing where Ygritte was, or whether or not she was alive. Maybe they could have kept the shooter a mystery, too. I don't foresee that being of huge consequence, though. Jon smiling, and her almost betraying a smile right before the arrow hit, kind of heartbreaking.

Over all, I still loved this episode. I'd have a hard time choosing between this and Blackwater, in my opinion. At this point, though, I've watched Blackwater a dozen times, it will take some more views of this particular episode to really say.

-I've always thought that Kit showed the most promise among the cast in sword-fighting (not necessarily because of the choreography he's gotten, just his athleticism), even seasons back, and he really did a great job in the fight against Styr...

-Alliser Thorne and Tormund's fight was great. I am glad that they kept Tormund alive, I would have been sad if that Bear-Porker's member hadn't lived to seduce another grizzly. "I SHOULD HAVE THROWN YOU FROM THE TOP OF THE WALL BOY!" Hopefully he gets over it as fast as he does in the books. I love friendly ole Tormund.

-I did like Aemon's little talk with Sam, despite it taking away from the action.

-R.I.P Grenn, one of the most heroic deaths in the show to date. R.I.P Pip, right when he found his balls.

-GHOST!

My mother was counting how many N.W. members died, too, by the way. It's probably due to how much they've mentioned having "just 100 brothers" left. There really are not too many left.

We'll see how this all plays out next week.

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I want to see who's going to say with a straight face there's nothing wrong with Stannis' treatment on the show. They spend nearly 10 minutes on Sam and Gilly, yet the episode ends in an anti-climax because they can't have his big moment in an episode that is not already completely crowed.


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this was just a crap, honestly i love all the chapters of Jon in the book, but this is depressing, the worst episode I've seen, Jon Snow simply is not worth to become the Lord Commander after this. I'm crying inside after watching this.


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- Samwell "You May Be Fucking Ten But Step the Fuck Up" Tarly.

"Ten years old? TIME TO BE A MAN." The Ned would approve. Sam Tarly's "honorary Stark" application should clear any day now.

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Yeah... right when Jon has almost drawn peace terms with Mance, then Stannis the Menace comes storming in to save? the day... Tah tah ta Dah! Red Witch and all. Should take about 5 min to cover thoroughly imo.

But he will say "I dont phisically abuse my daughter" again at some point, so we should all be satisfied with the big bone thrown at us with such a good trait.

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I do understand what they intended and I wished they had done the better job. I am not complaining about Stannis, I am actually complaining of the episode itself. When you haven't made sure that your characters for such centric episode are fleshed out enough, you do have a problem in maintaining the attention for 50 minutes. This was like never ending marathon. I do wanted nice NW episode, I wanted it to be as epic as Blackwater, but it wasn't. It failed where it should have been

This... I mean, the characters on the Wall are just group of extras, with exception of Sam and Jon... When you have this type of episode, you make sure you have enough to make it through the end. Blackwater had Tyrion, Sansa, Cersei, Hound, Bronn, all established characters. This one had nothing. It had Jon whose "learning to lead" path was done in such weird way that it is almost hysterical, and Sam who was more or less confused about what to do, with a deal of courage... The rest of gang is flat line... This just didn't push the right buttons, as the episode, not as adaptation.

You are not wrong in that they gave our brave boys no love throughout the season in order to build to this. My opinion is they didn't need to "blow the Night's Watch wad" on the 9th episode with a Wall only episode. It made for sloppy whole season pacing. True that. I can still appreciate the effort they finally got around to.

I am one of those that was thinking a shark was getting jumped until around episode 5 or so. Then they started to redeem themselves....in my eyes anyway.

He held the gate.

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"Ten years old? TIME TO BE A MAN." The Ned would approve. Sam Tarly's "honorary Stark" application should clear any day now.

:cheers: Ghost is faster than any raven.

Hrm, I assumed Jon's "peace talk"/suicide mission would end with Mance telling him to fuck off. But oh ho ho Mance might not kill him where he stands but his 90,000+ warriors/fishwives/ninjas/mammoths/huskies will. Jon realizes he's fucked, until a certain unit of barded destriers smashes through the forest. Fancy import destriers who don't stop for no fucking roots or potholes.

Edited by PhoenixFlame

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There's nuance there, but you won't see it if you hate the approach. My friends were curious about the giant opening the gate on his own, but then we thought about and came to a consensus. He was running on adrenaline after being injured and watching his fellow wildlings and giant buddy die, and his mammoth run off in agony. It's like when a normal human finds the strength to lift a car off of a loved one. If you paid the same person a $1000 to do it for sport, it wouldn't be possible, but the human body can do amazing things when it's running off of adrenaline. Imagine what a Giant can do in a similar situation. Just because a Giant could theoretically lift a gate like that under certain circumstances, why waste your energy when you can have a beast of burden perform the same task? Have the mammoth open the gate so you can save your energy for the actual attack at the gate. When plan A fails spectacularly, go for plan B and open that shit yourself, because you're a giant.

I don't hate the approach. I am not book purist, but this was just bad in terms of characterization. Entire season we have fillers, and now, we wonder why the crown jewel of the Wall subplot didn't work? The characters weren't fleshed out and we now wonder why it was out of pace. We keep Jon tapping in one line, and now suddenly we remembered he needs to be taking the control? This episode was the product of not thinking some things through.

As for the adrenaline... LOL... Nice way to fill the obvious plot hole. Congrats to you and your friends :cheers:

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Yeah cause you felt the same when he arrived at the wall in the books.

It's a tv show, right? On the show it would made an impression of being a cliche way to adapt a chapter because of the same timing, not to mention it is an episode 9, known for its "omfg" last minutes that are expected. There would be nothing epic about it, unlike in the books.

Splitting it was a good call, hope they didn't ruin it, though.

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I want to see who's going to say with a straight face there's nothing wrong with Stannis' treatment on the show. They spend nearly 10 minutes on Sam and Gilly, yet the episode ends in an anti-climax because they can't have his big moment in an episode that is not already completely crowed.

More character bias, why shouldn't Sam be fleshed out? George Martin made him a POV character after all.

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There's nuance there, but you won't see it if you hate the approach. My friends were curious about the giant opening the gate on his own, but then we thought about and came to a consensus. He was running on adrenaline after being injured and watching his fellow wildlings and giant buddy die, and his mammoth run off in agony. It's like when a normal human finds the strength to lift a car off of a loved one. If you paid the same person a $1000 to do it for sport, it wouldn't be possible, but the human body can do amazing things when it's running off of adrenaline. Imagine what a Giant can do in a similar situation. Just because a Giant could theoretically lift a gate like that under certain circumstances, why waste your energy when you can have a beast of burden perform the same task? Have the mammoth open the gate so you can save your energy for the actual attack at the gate. When plan A fails spectacularly, go for plan B and open that shit yourself, because you're a giant.

I'll make it easier: Mance Rayder can not know if a giant can lift the gate. So he sends a mammoth to make sure the gate is indeed opened. It's war, you don't go for the minimum if you can use something better.

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Me too. This was the kind of passion and energy I expected from Oberyn during the fight, but didn't get it. Loved Grenn! Had goosebumps when they were reciting the vows.

Thought that scene was especially cheesy. I'm just not big on seeing the same thing twice if it didn't work great OR worked just well enough the first time, which it did...back in Season 1. Here it just sort of added to the overall laughable tone of the episode where there shouldn't have been one. Like seriously, give Grenn any other badass speech like the one that Ser Alliser gave. Making me care for Ser Alliser was an impressive feat; I was more worried for his safety in the Tormund fight than I was for Grenn's even though it was extremely obvious Grenn was doomed. I cared more about Ser Alliser surviving than I did Grenn.

Aside from the technical aspects (brief Ghost-cam, brilliant aerial shots, scenes on top of the wall), Ser Alliser's talk with Jon on top of the Wall was the best moment of the episode for me. I thought Grenn's speech only rivaled Ygritte's death and the Sam-Gilly stuff in cheesiness tonight.

Edited by When Harry met Sansa

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I'm glad Stan didn't show up, this was the Nights watch's moment, don't need Stannis coming in at the last second and taking all the glory.

Agreed. Stannis will get his moment next episode.

ALSO

1) Thorne is much more likeable on the TV show. I wonder how they'll handle the Lord Commander stuff now. Also, will Slynt be punished for cowardice?

and

2) RIP Grenn and Pyp :crying:

Edited by Bonzo

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As for the adrenaline... LOL... Nice way to fill the obvious plot hole. Congrats to you and your friends :cheers:

How is that a plot hole? If you have a book bag full of supplies you need to lug up the mountain, strap it into the donkey. If the donkey gets set on fire and runs away, you have to lug up yourself. If you have a beast of burden, take advantage of it so you can conserve energy.

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