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Badass episode. Loved everything about it, t'was even better than last week's episode. Only thing that sucked was them breakin' up the NW bros. Grenn and Pyp were awesome. It ain't gonna be the same without 'em.



This episode made up for the slow and dull moments of earlier episodes.


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Was anyone else annoyed that Jon abandoned the battle to cradle a dying Ygritte in his arms? Definitely not Lord Commander behavior. He could have saved one of his brothers in that time. Why couldn't their tearful goodbyes have happened a couple of minutes later after the battle was over? Why did the kid have to kill her instead of a random arrow? Seemed far to convenient.

At this rate, folks who haven't read the books will have no reason to think that Jon deserves to be LC. They'll probably accept it because he's a main character, but isn't Game of Thrones supposed to better than relying on TV tropes? Thorne seemed quite competent in this episode. Why should the brothers of the Night's Watch pick Jon over him? Other than that he's young, good looking and the main character.

From a dramatic standpoint, Stannis should have showed up, but from a narrative standpoint it wouldn't have made sense. The only way it could have worked is if parts of the battle (like the initial raid) had happened in prior episodes, which would have been a better choice. I've had serious problems with pacing in this season, as well as the effect many of the show-only scenes have had on the narrative. They could have taken out the pointless Craster's Keep sequence and spent more time on the lead-up to the battle, perhaps even had Ygritte's death occur in an earlier episode.

At its best, this season has still been great, but based on how the writers have struggled to weave together a narrative/prioritize in a way that makes sense even with ample book material to draw on, I"m having serious doubts about next season when they'll have to make up even more material and pull of some extreme narrative gymnastics in order for the timeline to make sense.

Because Thorne will likely die from his wounds or be otherwise incapable of leading the NW any longer. Jon was incredibly heroic and competent throughout the episode, apart from a single 30 second sequence. They traded dramatic effect for realism. If you think that completely annihilates his character and his leadership credentials, you're nuts, especially in the company of other men with just as many if not significantly more faults.

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Is it just me or is HBO making it entirely more convincing by the episode that Jon actually does die as a result of his knife wounds? Seriously, the worst treated character in the show and his stupidity is magnified tenfold in the show, which has also decided to take away his only decent quality (skilled swordsman) and made him into a laughing stock as well.

The changes would make a whole heck of a lot more sense if he is indeed dead, despite our prior knowledge that the way Martin wrote that chapter makes it unlikely. But I almost feel it would be more believable now with the way the show has made his character out to be, even more of a dolt (somehow) than he is in the books. And I'm a big Jon fan, for the record.

Huh? Kit/Jon looked like a badass and was holding his own against a guy who was like 7 feet tall with a 5 foot axe. He got disarmed and still managed to kill him. Every swordsman has his match and Jon is far from a legendary swordsman, even in the books. Very good, but he did get his ass beat by Mance.

Also, every characters strengths and flaws are going to be magnified on the show, because you can't get in their head like you do in the books. Jon is stupid and doesn't always think things through in the books, he is also well liked by his brothers and is a good leader, the show accurately portrays that.

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They deviated heavily from the source this season and it unfortunately it's not working.

It's not working for you, but it is for the record number of watchers who have made it the biggest show in HBO's history with an ever growing fan-base.

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Jon Snow is that Jack-of-all-Stats type character. Good at everything, God of Pwnage of none. Tormund's hissy fit makes me squee for when Jon gets knifed and the Wildlings at the Wall find out what happened. Tormund's gonna summon his bear mistress from the woods and the Brutaii of the Night's Watch will know fear!






Haha between this and the Mononoke comment, you are really on point with good cues that the writers could take from anime for the direwolves. Bravo, my friend. Big anime fan, myself.





:cheers: Inspiration is found everywhere! Kiba gives me total Ghost feels.


Edited by PhoenixFlame

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Stannis is just one piece of the puzzle. We all know he'll get his save-the-day scene, whether it was at the end of this episode or in the season finale shouldn't be a deal breaker. Seems silly to bash the show for that decision before it plays out.

I was initially disappointed it didn't happen in E.09 but now show watchers have a full week to worry about what happens at the wall which is a very good thing. In my view, this was a bittersweet victory as (whether you agree or not) it was made abundantly clear that the NW cannot hold back the Wildlings from many more attacks. It wasn't a, "Hooray! We won" type thing. Just ask Edd.

I think holding this scene off for another week will actually improve the Unsullied's view of Stannis. He will arrive in awesome fashion right when he does in the books. Being upset that he wasn't "the star" of this episode is taking an extremely narrow and personal view IMO.

In hindsight, I'm glad that Stannis's deus-ex-machina arrival didn't occur at the end of E.09 because then it would just seem like a Blackwater retread of Tywin and that isn't great storytelling.

Also, everyone upset that the show will have to push some things into Season 5 should be ecstatic as we are all painfully aware of the inevitability of the show surpassing the books. Any "filler" is a win for us, I think.

I feel for the Stannis fans who were mad that the show didn't fulfill their hopes, but I think in time, most of us will see that this decision will prove far more beneficial to the story as a whole... The story being the tv adaptation of A Song of Ice and Fire, not the tv adaptation of A Stannis of a Stannis and Stannis.

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Huh? Kit/Jon looked like a badass and was holding his own against a guy who was like 7 feet tall with a 5 foot axe. He got disarmed and still managed to kill him. Every swordsman has his match and Jon is far from a legendary swordsman, even in the books. Very good, but he did get his ass beat by Mance.

Also, every characters strengths and flaws are going to be magnified on the show, because you can't get in their head like you do in the books. Jon is stupid and doesn't always think things through in the books, he is also well liked by his brothers and is a good leader, the show accurately portrays that.

plus jon was kicking a fair amount of ass before that fight.

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I suspect you're right. There's too much to pack into next week's episode without Lady Stoneheart. I think the season will end with Dany's dragons being chained up.

Dany's dragons being chained up is probably the 5th or 6th most dramatic thing that will happen next episode. If it is last I will finally join the anti-D&D fan club. I'd take Bloodraven/CotF, Tyrion/Shae, Tyrion/Tywin, Stannis, Stoneheart all over that ending in a heartbeat.

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Man that scene where Grenn rallies his crew with the Oath....... Chilling to the bone.

...meh....

Okay, that's a little strong- it actually WAS a strong scene, in and of itself.

At the same time... Its like the 5th time they have used this trope; they hardly ever have a Night-Watch conflict/argument without regurgitating the Oath. Its not that the oath has lost meaning, but it seems like its the ONLY way the show knows how to conclude a scene involving the NW. ITs as if they have a saying in their writing room- "When in Doubt, quote the oath."

Had this been the only time they had done it, it would have made a better scene.

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Okay I'm sorry, last thing guys, don't we think that Ser Gregor's agency was slightly usurpered when Alliser Thorne didn't say: "The Wall is yours Lord Gregor?" I'm just a little distraught. And bear in mind, this is before Ros's ghost holds him and says: "Don't leave me alone in this world." I just think Gregor's agency isn't being taken seriously by most readers and I really think that we need to focus less on stuff like Stannis, Grenn, and Pyp, and more on the lack of Gregor. We didn't even get the iconic chant of "Mountain! Mountain! Mountain!" at the end of the episode. :(


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Game Of Thrones has given us many great .gifs over the years. I know I'll always remember where I was the first time I saw "ramsay wiggles a sausage at Theon".



However, THIS. Beautiful in its simplicity.



THE WALL DEFENDS ITSELF (with a little help from Edd)


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Did you actually see him fighting...he was demolishing people?

I seem to remember even the great Jaime Lannister got disarmed and captured at Whispering Wood. No matter how good you are you can still be taken down..we've seen that numerous times...Barristan Selmy injured at the Trident, Jaime captured, Arthur Dayne killed.

I should rephrase it to anyone skilled. He's essentially demolishing peasants before he fights Styr; the average Wildling is cake-fodder for Jon. As soon as he gets a somewhat skilled opponent (Karl, Styr) he's disarmed with relative ease to build "drama" that we don't really need. I'm not buying that he loses the sword again only so that as soon as he finishes Styr, which still was a decent fight, he can be unarmed when Ygritte has the chance to kill him to again build more "drama". He's laughably bad at fighting in the show compared to how he is in the books and again, that's kind of his only good quality.

Plus having him mope around to the extreme and then just decide "My woman's dead so fook it, I'm going on a suicide mission" instead of just having a wounded Ser Alliser, or even Slynt, get one minute to order Jon to treat with Mance was just such a stupid plot. Seriously, they're making it very, very convincing that he is exceptionally daft and that easy to write off when the time comes. Show Jon basically deserves it already.

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Just watched it for a second time. Noticed in the guest starring roles during the credits that Ian Whyte was in the EP. He was the Mountain during season 2. Wonder who he played? I kinda wanna go back and see if I can spot him.


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...meh....

Okay, that's a little strong- it actually WAS a strong scene, in and of itself.

At the same time... Its like the 5th time they have used this trope; they hardly ever have a Night-Watch conflict/argument without regurgitating the Oath. Its not that the oath has lost meaning, but it seems like its the ONLY way the show knows how to conclude a scene involving the NW. ITs as if they have a saying in their writing room- "When in Doubt, quote the oath."

Had this been the only time they had done it, it would have made a better scene.

I definitely see it. I'd love a scene where they poke fun at it while simultaneously honoring it.

That was the most badass scythe since Buffy and Grim Fandango. They couldn't have installed a couple more though? :idea: I guess it was decided the same time the Night's Watch dropped collision insurance to save some money.

If anyone in the ASOIAF universe gets this moneyshot, I'll die happy.

Edited by PhoenixFlame

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I wonder how Slynt's cowardice is going to come back on him. I wish there was more Ghost. He killed like one dude and that was it:

Yep a real head scratcher

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I feel bad for some people on here. Just watch the show and enjoy it for what it is. I have read the books several times. I enjoy every single episode. I dont sit there watching episodes with my books on hand as if I have a checklist going over each scene and line to make sure it matches or is included. You should let yourself just watch it as a separate entity. It is an adaptation. We already know there will be changes. To say this isnt one of the better shows or even in the top 5 is scary. So many of my friends never read the books and whenever we discuss the show their eyes light up and say how amazing it was. Thats because theyre not watching saying wait hey hey that guy was supposed to be standing to Jon's left not the right!! Why is his hair so nicely done that doesnt make sense for a battle!! God I hate this theyre ruining it! Anybody not enjoying this show I wish could forget they ever read the books and just watch it unsullied. Maybe you guys wouldnt be so stuck up about it and could just be entertained. This has been the highest rated HBO show of all time. The only real show ahead of it including network shows would be The Walking Dead and some others. Averaged 18+ million/episode, sounds like its a pretty good show to me. Rotten Tomatoes has like a minimum 95 percent approval rating every time. Relax and enjoy the ride despite the changes and differences please. Sorry for no punctuation/grammatical errors this is on my phone.


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