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Why not? If you have read the books you should know what the events at the wall are ultimately more important than whoever's ass is on the iron throne.

This is true, but the two battles are depicted differently. Blackwater is basically just a huge single attack. Sure, there's a bit of preparation earlier, but most of the action takes place in one day/night and then is done. That's why dedicating an entire episode to it worked so good.

But the battle of the Wall is the Battle of Castle Black first and then a siege that lasts several days. That's why I think it could have been better to spend several episodes in this battle rather than blowing their wad in one go

Plus, Blackwater features several main characters, while this one not so much

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Stannis is not saving the wall. either jon will singlehandedly kill every wildling or Dany dispatched a covert force of unsullied to break the wildling army. Instead of STANNIS STANNIS STANNIS we will get KHALEESI KHALEESI KHALEESI.

Fuck this show

Not really the build is for Stannis to arrive and lead to the victory. But no Stannis can't have his triumphant moment. D&D your hatred is all too obvious now.

Even in the books, Stannis didn't come when the battle was raging on the Wall. He came when all looked hopeless and that's probably the case next week. Chill up guys.

Besides, I think they made the Night's Watchmen look kind of incompetent, mostly at the start. The guys have no trebuchets, no catapults. They let Mag the Mighty open the gates without scorpioning his ass.

I'm really sad for Pyp and Grenn. Grenn should have survived, man.

Alliser was particularly funny. "I said fucking notch! Not draw you cunts!", "What you're waiting? Loose!!!". Great episode

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:cheers:

Wow you are really upset.

Its not obvious at all that Jon might get iced. Seriously, its not. Im saying that as a book reader, its not obvious. Jon has been depicted as the voice of reason this season against guys like Slynt and Thorne. His decision to go route out Craster's was seen as an honorable one by a lot of the Watch. His decision to meet with Mance and not being ordered to, is in line with his crushing feelings over Ygritte's death in the show. Which, if anything, is an indication he isnt gonna die because heroes who do that never get owned. Its a trope.

I think im giving more credit to the unsullied than you are. If i was unsullied and watching the show, id never guess that Jon is going die or even fail in this current mission. I wouldnt know about Stannis' coming (but i would wonder cuz Stannis said he would head North) so i wouldnt know that thats how Jon gets out. But i would assume he would get out because of how his character is portrayed. (The only honorable guy besides Sam in the Watch really.) And the lingering question about Jon's parents. I would not assume as an unsullied that that would go unanswered because of character death. (cuz that would be shit writing. Hence why i dont think Jon is dead in the books.) Just as i would never assume Tyrion is going to die if i hadnt read the books. My unsullied friends know Tyrion isnt going to die because of how he was depicted and his story isnt over.

I think this is why your jimmies are so out of place. You assume the show is dumbing down everything. It really hasnt dumbed down too much and i think this is more your opinion speaking. I do not see why you are lashing out at us since we are being civil with you, mate.

YISS! That is the most creative death ive seen so far!

It really doesnt make Jon look dumb at all. Its risky and he knows it but the show is depicting Jon as pretty fucking cut up over Ygritte's death. Its natural that he would feel so fatalistic.

Lol if you're getting offended and saying I'm lashing out because we have a difference of opinion and are arguing on the Internet over something I honestly don't know what to tell you except good luck. I'm not being uncivil in any way. I won't argue any further. Cheers.

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They're not being criticized for "sticking to the books". They're being criticized for how they structured the episode (and, by implication, the preceding episodes of this storyline).

No, they're being criticized because a character they wanted to see didn't show up and save the day. I read through this forum all week long and it was crazy just how many people said "I can't wait to see Stannis!" in an episode very clearly focusing on the Night's Watch and Jon Snow. Now, despite the fact that the episode works better without Stannis, they are upset because they think that Stannis will get 'overlooked' next week by other story lines, even though they clearly were doing the same with the Night's Watch storyline themselves.

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Thought that scene was especially cheesy. I'm just not big on seeing the same thing twice if it didn't work great OR worked just well enough the first time, which it did...back in Season 1. Here it just sort of added to the overall laughable tone of the episode where there shouldn't have been one. Like seriously, give Grenn any other badass speech like the one that Ser Alliser gave. Making me care for Ser Alliser was an impressive feat; I was more worried for his safety in the Tormund fight than I was for Grenn's even though it was extremely obvious Grenn was doomed. I cared more about Ser Alliser surviving than I did Grenn.

Aside from the technical aspects (brief Ghost-cam, brilliant aerial shots, scenes on top of the wall), Ser Alliser's talk with Jon on top of the Wall was the best moment of the episode for me. I thought Grenn's speech only rivaled Ygritte's death and the Sam-Gilly stuff in cheesiness tonight.

In what possible way, shape, or form was the NW holding the gate against an incredibly awesome, bad-ass looking giant "laughable"? I couldn't have possibly had a more different reaction than yours I don't think.

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It does make it less though. If the last shot of this episode was triumphant music playing while Stannis proudly charges through his line of knights having just saved the Wall, it'd be stuck in viewers minds all week and would be a massive talking point and memorable moment. Now, it will more than likely be lost in the fray of one of the most noteworthy-moment packed episodes in TV history. Having it next week doesn't make the actual action of Stannis arriving there less cool, it will just affect the way it sticks in viewers' consciousness.

But it leaves viewers on a cliffhanger after a bittersweet ending and legit left wondering what Jon's fate will be. Everyone's focus will be on the epicness of the battle, on Sam, and Ygritte's death, and on what will happen to Jon next week.

Maybe that upsets Stannis fans with the fact his hero moment will be in a packed episode, and maybe they have a right to be. That still doesn't mean this was bad TV. This was very good TV.

I think some people are to hung up with their "sullied" expectations and forget that the show is paced and written for the "unsullied".

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I'm not a Stanstan but I think it was stupid not to include Stannis. It would have been the perfect ending and it would have allowed us to focus on the other stories. I honestly feel that was bad storytelling.



There's so much going on in the season finale that I have no idea how they will fit everything in one episode. Oh well.


Edited by bloodsteel bitterraven

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The moment I loved (for a mix of humor and cringing) was Jon's face getting smashed into an anvil. Shit man! Then he regained...usurped...stole...backhanded his street cred by spitting blood in Styr's face. Though I was a bit perplexed as to how he didn't have two split lips and a tooth or two skittering off Styr's rock-hard facial scarring.

If the dragon preteens are chained up next season, can they please splurge on direwolf SFX? Ghost running into the fray was awesome but I wanted MOAR carnage. Give me something like the Princess Mononoke scene with the wolves tearing stuff up.

Hoping for some notable Summer action when (and if) Bran and co. get ambushed by wights in the finale.

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I don't understand why the fuck didn't they just have the whole wall story line conclude this episode. I mean they had an ENTIRE EPISODE TO DO THIS.


BUT NO WE HAVE TO GET FUCKING SAM AND GILLY AND MORE WASTED TIME.


WTF?


You could of had stannis save the day at the end and have a nice conclusion to the wall arc and finish it for the entire seasons and leave the other story lines for episode 10 cause some major shit is going to happen


Now we have to have everything cramped into one episode which surely means david and dan will fuck up something as always.


Jesus D&D must have developed a brain tumor when they wrote this and thought. Hey fuck george and his writing let's make our own incompetent shit.


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I'm hoping that Tormund takes over Sigorn's role. I'd love to see him marry a babe, get more lines, and get a Giantsbane (Bearfucker?) sigil. Think it'd be dope.


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don't worry guys, Stannis will get his 1 min and half next episode (can't have more because we already have a billion fucking other things in it) having 5 guys charge another 6 guys (in between Grey worm fucking Melisande and Tyrion giving another rousing speech about some dude he used to know) because putting a major battle in the episode that got the most money to show major battles is just to insane, better spend that money on the ever important plot point of Aemon talking about his love life


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don't worry guys, Stannis will get his 1 min and half next episode (can't have more because we already have a billion fucking other things in it) having 5 guys charge another 6 guys (in between Grey worm fucking Melisande and Tyrion giving another rousing speech about some dude he used to know) because putting a major battle in the episode that got the most money to show major battles is just to insane, better spend that money on the ever important plot point of Aemon talking about his love life

:V

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I'm honestly shocked there are people defending the showwriters' decision not to include Stannis.



Movies usually have a happy ending, and a game changer if you want to have a sequel. Stannis saving the day is your happy ending that wraps everything up nicely while at the same time it changes everything in Westeros. If you're going to devote a whole episode to one storyline and you want to make the episode feel like a movie, you should have done that.


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don't worry guys, Stannis will get his 1 min and half next episode (can't have more because we already have a billion fucking other things in it) having 5 guys charge another 6 guys (in between Grey worm fucking Melisande and Tyrion giving another rousing speech about some dude he used to know) because putting a major battle in the episode that got the most money to show major battles is just to insane, better spend that money on the ever important plot point of Aemon talking about his love life

And D&D apologists will definitely will find a way to say how fantastic that was.

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...meh....

Okay, that's a little strong- it actually WAS a strong scene, in and of itself.

At the same time... Its like the 5th time they have used this trope; they hardly ever have a Night-Watch conflict/argument without regurgitating the Oath. Its not that the oath has lost meaning, but it seems like its the ONLY way the show knows how to conclude a scene involving the NW. ITs as if they have a saying in their writing room- "When in Doubt, quote the oath."

Had this been the only time they had done it, it would have made a better scene.

It's been used a bit much, but it's being used very fittingly, especially here. Being around 10 seconds away from essentially certain death at the hands of a freaking massive, terrifying giant, it'd be emboldening to know that your impending death is actually in service of something great. I'm not sure what else they could have had them do that would've communicated the same idea.

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I should rephrase it to anyone skilled. He's essentially demolishing peasants before he fights Styr; the average Wildling is cake-fodder for Jon. As soon as he gets a somewhat skilled opponent (Karl, Styr) he's disarmed with relative ease to build "drama" that we don't really need. I'm not buying that he loses the sword again only so that as soon as he finishes Styr, which still was a decent fight, he can be unarmed when Ygritte has the chance to kill him to again build more "drama". He's laughably bad at fighting in the show compared to how he is in the books and again, that's kind of his only good quality.

Plus having him mope around to the extreme and then just decide "My woman's dead so fook it, I'm going on a suicide mission" instead of just having a wounded Ser Alliser, or even Slynt, get one minute to order Jon to treat with Mance was just such a stupid plot. Seriously, they're making it very, very convincing that he is exceptionally daft and that easy to write off when the time comes. Show Jon basically deserves it already.

If you think sword fighting is Jon's only good quality, I refuse to believe you've read the books.

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Who gives a fuck about Jon Snow we all watched this episode for Stannis.

Speak for everyone why don't you?Glad you were all trolled coz the level of Stanfan shite had become nauseating.Stop watching the show and throw all your toys out of the pram.

Oh,and ignore the possibility that that Stan's arrival may be even more effective in the final episode.

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I totally cried when Ygritte died :(



Thumbs up to the person who predicted a Tormund vs Thorne fight



As for Stan the Man being pushed to ep 10, I wouldn't worry too much because the finale is 66 minutes long. Plenty of time for everyone to get their slice of action. (Also I'm a Jon fan and am thrilled he had ep 9 to himself. Sorry about that. Not.)


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