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All the more reason to want to see a lot of it in the show.

They're going to show more violence, of course, but I get the feeling StanStans are still going to be disappointed.

Did anyone else get the sense that when Aemon Targaryen was talking about the girl that he loved that it was the Queen of Thornes?

I was thinking Jenny of Oldstones. Olenna isn't that old.

Edited by RoamingRonin

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I thought this episode was fantastic. So did a lot of my sullied friends who watched it. I am a Stannis fan.



It accomplished excellently what I felt it needed to accomplish:



(a) Establish that Jon Snow AND the Night's Watch have true grit; the Oath Recitation under the gate as the Giant approached was excellent TV and story telling. I absolutely loved Samwell's line to Gilly about "Keeping promises to my brothers is what men do." Especially in light of recent events.....


(b_) Wildings are savage and WILL kill everyone


(c) Samwell Tarly is becoming more of a man; despite all the hate on this thread I like what they are doing with Sam: I believe Sam to be the most relatable character for most of the people who watch the show. Overweight, timid, but bookish and intelligent. I'd wager HBO has done some market analysis on this and I'd wager a lot of people really like Samwell and Gilly. I sure do. All my unsullied friends do too. They are relatable and based on the characterization of Samwell I believe great things are in place for him in WOW and ADOS. To be honest, I find Samwell infinitely more likeable than Sansa, Littlefinger, Brienne but thats a whole other thread.


(d) Dramatic death of Yrgitte; very well done and all my friends teared up. Mission accomplished by D&D. Very well done.


(e) The Night's Watch won the battle BUT at too great a cost


(f) Giants are totally awesome.



I like Stannis a lot, but I feel all the criticism of him not being in this episode was unfounded. This episode was about the Night's Watch. Period. Full Stop. Stannis is NOT part of the Night's Watch. This is almost exactly how it played out in the books too.



There is plenty of time for next episode for Stannis to save Jon's bacon. If I recall, the whole battle of the wall with Stannis was like a page or two in the book; why does it need to be a 30 minute spectacle anyway? Plus all we saw of Stannis in the book was the following day when Melissandre takes Jon to the top of the wall with Stannis. That conversation between Jon and Stannis on the wall was infinitely more interesting to me than the actual battle of the wall.



Also, just because Tywin is getting capped next episode why does this diminish the fact Stannis saves the Watch any more? I am bittersweet for the Tywin scene because we are going to lose one the most compelling actors on the show (Charles Dance) and at the same time we are going to lost one of the most uninteresting actors on the show (Sibel Kikelli). I hope the Tyrion strangulation scene is awesome. I have been looking forward to it for 3.3 seasons worth of shows. God I hate Shae.



This was an excellent episode. I liked it more than the Blackwater because the good guys won this one. Fantastic TV.



PS: I watched the surprisingly good Godzilla movie this weekend and I found this episode even better in terms of special effects. No small statement that.


Edited by Mark the Red

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Did anyone else get the sense that when Aemon Targaryen was talking about the girl that he loved that it was the Queen of Thornes?

Yes, mostly for the laughs.

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I've read people saying that the showrunners could have screwed up because maybe Grenn and Pyp might have had huge roles to play later in the books. It's not like the showrunners don't have the author as the co-executive producer who has given them the plot outline.

Or they can just have their future book roles consolidated with Edd on the show.

Since Edd should be getting more screen time and dialogue anyway. :cool4:

It's nice to have Jon's whole clique around but in terms of filming the show, having too many of them takes away from all of them. Grenn and Pyp die heroes deaths and Edd becomes Jon's main Lieutenant dude (especially once Sam leaves for Maester College). Works for me

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Yeah I think Sam was a highlight of the episode, he's really coming into his own, and he had some great one liners. I love Sam and Gilly and people here are calling it filler because their favorite character, Stannis, wasn't featured. Terrible. 50 minutes of fighting would be bad television without the character scenes to actually make viewers care.



Also Tormund was a total beast.


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Quote from aFfC: "Why do you think Maester Aemon was sent to the wall when by all right he was to become an archmaester?" I highly doubt it was his own choice.

Doesn't the new Awoiaf reading imply at least that Aemon and BR went to the wall by choice, possibly to ensure they couldn't be used against Egg?

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Yeah I think Sam was a highlight of the episode, he's really coming into his own, and he had some great one liners. I love Sam and Gilly and people here are calling it filler because their favorite character, Stannis, wasn't featured. Terrible. 50 minutes of fighting would be bad television without the character scenes to actually make viewers care.

Also Tormund was a total beast.

Down with Tormund up with Thorne!

At least nobody tells him to shut up when he's telling a cool story. :crying:

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You are 100% correct. D&D crazies keep painting Stan fans are lunatics and whatnot.

They don't have to paint you as anything. You ranting like a spoiled child all through the thread pretty much does that on its own.

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I like Stannis a lot, but I feel all the criticism of him not being in this episode was unfounded. This episode was about the Night's Watch. Period. Full Stop. Stannis is NOT part of the Night's Watch. This is almost exactly how it played out in the books too.

Spot on, you've absolutely nailed it. This episode was about the brotherhood of the Night's Watch and it was bloody brilliant.

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Yeah I think Sam was a highlight of the episode, he's really coming into his own, and he had some great one liners. I love Sam and Gilly and people here are calling it filler because their favorite character, Stannis, wasn't featured.

I am not a fan of Stannis at all and still though it was filler. I don't care about Sam's love life, especially when it is written so badly as it was in this episode.

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I am not a fan of Stannis at all and still though it was filler. I don't care about Sam's love life, especially when it is written so badly as it was in this episode.

Ok.

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Just rewatched the episode - How anyone can give that below an 8 is beyond me.

I think my point is that you can give the episode an "8" and still maintain valid, objective criticisms.

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For the first time, I have to agree that the show doesn't really do Stannis justice. I'm not at all a fan of Stannis, and I'll hate him even more if LS gets cut because Stannis will be given too much screen time in 10 ;) But he is one of the most interesting characters of books 4 and 5, whether you like him or not, and his plotline was set up very, very poorly this season. Still, let's wait for next week until we give up on the show's treatment of Stannis. Next week will decide much about the show anyway - depending on what they cut or include, the finale could save or ruin the whole season.


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I don't know why, but the deaths of the two giants bothered me much more that it should have D:


Damn, I really feel sad about their deaths....


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It would be cool to see Mance getting on his horse in his raven helm and riding off to get captured, or Godry Farring killing a fleeing giant, or Harma Dogshead going down.

I don't think they will include Godfry. They did not include Donal Noye, I can't imagine Godfry being included. Best I hope for is Richard Horpe (since he is one of Stannis' chief advisers in ADWD), but I doubt that as well.

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I don't know why, but the deaths of the two giants bothered me much more that it should have D:

Damn, I really feel sad about their deaths....

I wanted to hear the guys firing the ballista sing "The Last of the Giants" as they killed him. Call me cruel.

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I am not a fan of Stannis at all and still though it was filler. I don't care about Sam's love life, especially when it is written so badly as it was in this episode.

Glad it isn't just me.

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Did anyone else get the sense that when Aemon Targaryen was talking about the girl that he loved that it was the Queen of Thornes?

She said the person she seduced wasn't a Targ- I don't think Aemon is the type to never notice in the subsequent 70 years since then, that his true love never loved him. Plus I think Aemon is a little bit older than Q.O.T

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