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Hello, I am a lurker here - I have read books 1-4, and started 5, but stopped. I am now reading book 4 over again, and will attempt to finish book 5 this time around :read:

I thouroughly enjoy reading everyone's thoughts here after the episodes air!

I have a question - I read a lot of the pages here, and haven't seen it mentioned, so forgive me if it has been!

Eli Roth tweeted about the lastest episode yesterday, and he mentioned a 'cameo'... WHO HAD A CAMEO?? (sorry if this is the wrong place for this question).

Welcome! Enjoy your time on the boards. :)

:cheers:

Regarding your question, I'm at a loss ... if it were Eli Roth himself, he's most likely one of the guys covered in blood in the background. :P

Awwwww, I found this on twitter yesterday, but it was posted again and I thought I would bring it. It illustrates why I'll miss Grenn, and even Pyp, even though.......he wasn't all the Pypish to me.

http://pic.twitter.com/AaGcLRt0Us

:bawl:

Mind you, that grin on Edd's (Ben Crompton's) face just seems wrong somehow ... :eek:

Edited by Wolfox6

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Well yeah, I certainly agree that "anything that's not in the books" is a horrible definition of filler. I'm such a huge fan of the books that my obsession kind of scares me, but I am by no means a book purist when it comes to the TV show. Generally, I think the creators are doing a great job of putting out a good TV show, and rigid conformance to the book story would probably ruin that.

A lot of people would say that filler is any new material that doesn't advance the plot. I wouldn't even agree with that, so long as it's sufficiently entertaining. For example, I really liked the Grey Worm/Missandei stuff because it tangles with some really complicated emotional/physical/sexual/psychological material that really makes you think--although it goes nowhere (at least so far as is readily apparent) in terms of advancing the structure of the plot. I wouldn't even begin to call that "filler."

I would say that new material that isn't very entertaining and doesn't advance the plot very much is probably what qualifies as "filler." Obviously, we can disagree over whether the Craster's sub-plot meets that, but I call Craster's "filler" because (1) it wasn't very entertaining (in fact, a lot of people hated it as just another addition to the surfeit of sexual violence and human degradation), (2) it didn't add a tremendous amount to characterization, and (3) it didn't advance the plot.

I think they could've advanced the plot better by things like showing Mance in his camp plotting the destruction of the North, or having Jon and Sam talk about why it's so important to defend the wall against the wildlings. Those things could've set up this past episode a lot better than it actually got set up, IMO.

I completely agree with this.

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The problem with having Stannis coming in even next episode is that there is hardly any real action left for season 5. What we have from that point on is primarily:



1) Stannis and Jon discussing lots of stuff at the wall.



2) Tyrion and Jorah going through Essos. This has potential, especially because of the two excellent actors involved.



3) Dany dealing with problems of ruling while a coalition gathers against her.



4) Cersei mismanaging stuff and Jaime hating on her.



5) Arianne trying and failing to displace Doran and spending long time in silent imprisonment.



6) Arya training to be a faceless man



What about the big action scenes and victory scenes?

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I feel like some of us are overestimating the dramatic power of Stannis' sneak attack. Yes, defeating the wildling army is a hugely important event for both Stannis and Westeros as a whole, but from a TV drama perspective, it's not terribly interesting. Consider:

1) Stannis is not under any threat. He may be outnumbered, but he has superior resources and the element of surprise.

2) His attack of the wildlings doesn't represent anything meaningful about him as a character. Sure, he's going through the trouble because he's decided that that's what kings do, but there's no personal element to it. He's not, say, choosing to save a former enemy, or reversing a character trait (e.g., Han Solo at the end of New Hope).

Compare that to the battle of Castle Black, where everyone on the NW thinks they're going to die, but still manage to succeed against all odds by believing in their cause and because certain characters manage to change and grow.

Welcome to the boards. :cheers:

I had to think about this from a non-book-reader perspective, and I do think most of the audience (who don't know about Stannis' arrival to save the day, so to speak) are feeling the Wall is about to be breached and the Night's Watch end is nigh. Mance's threat is rather menacing in the trailer, if nothing else.

The ones I've spoken to that haven't read the books are still reeling over Oberyn's death and Tyrion's apparent demise so they don't really 'feel' the emotions we book-readers did at the happenings at the Wall.

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The problem with having Stannis coming in even next episode is that there is hardly any real action left for season 5. What we have from that point on is primarily:

1) Stannis and Jon discussing lots of stuff at the wall.

2) Tyrion and Jorah going through Essos. This has potential, especially because of the two excellent actors involved.

3) Dany dealing with problems of ruling while a coalition gathers against her.

4) Cersei mismanaging stuff and Jaime hating on her.

5) Arianne trying and failing to displace Doran and spending long time in silent imprisonment.

6) Arya training to be a faceless man

What about the big action scenes and victory scenes?

I would be surprised if we didn't get at least part of the Battles of Mereen and Ice in season 5, tbh.

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Hello, I am a lurker here - I have read books 1-4, and started 5, but stopped. I am now reading book 4 over again, and will attempt to finish book 5 this time around :read:

I thouroughly enjoy reading everyone's thoughts here after the episodes air!

I have a question - I read a lot of the pages here, and haven't seen it mentioned, so forgive me if it has been!

Eli Roth tweeted about the lastest episode yesterday, and he mentioned a 'cameo'... WHO HAD A CAMEO?? (sorry if this is the wrong place for this question).

I think Neil Marshall is one of the archers on the wall. Here is a picture of Marshall: http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/neil-marshall-black-sails.jpg

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Mind you, that grin on Edd's (Ben Crompton's) face just seems wrong somehow ... :eek:

I do love that picture. Now, just imagine if they'd actually fleshed out all of those characters. Hmmmmmm, perhaps I should take this picture to the Nitpick thread. I'm sure I could use a good rant about that, ehhhhh, maybe tomorrow or after the season ends. I do just love that picture and want to enjoy it.

As for Edd, I'm just going to fanwank that the smile is from his one bout of optimism in the books, he was thinking he'd be lucky enough to die before they figured out a way to put his corpse back to work. LOL ;) :lmao:

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The problem with having Stannis coming in even next episode is that there is hardly any real action left for season 5. What we have from that point on is primarily:

1) Stannis and Jon discussing lots of stuff at the wall.

2) Tyrion and Jorah going through Essos. This has potential, especially because of the two excellent actors involved.

3) Dany dealing with problems of ruling while a coalition gathers against her.

4) Cersei mismanaging stuff and Jaime hating on her.

5) Arianne trying and failing to displace Doran and spending long time in silent imprisonment.

6) Arya training to be a faceless man

What about the big action scenes and victory scenes?

Stannis attack on Deepwood Motte.

Myrcella's disfigurement, which can be fleshed out.

Some action sequences during the siege of Mereen. A sortie, or something to that effect.

Quentyn and everyone else trying to infiltrate into Mereen, if it happens.

Hardhome, if they include it.

Euron's attack on the Reach, likely off screen due budget

Maybe something at the Vale, of which we are all unsullied.

The pits.

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Stannis attack on Deepwood Motte.

Myrcella's disfigurement, which can be fleshed out.

Some action sequences during the siege of Mereen. A sortie, or something to that effect.

Quentyn and everyone else trying to infiltrate into Mereen, if it happens.

Hardhome, if they include it.

Euron's attack on the Reach, likely off screen due budget

Maybe something at the Vale, of which we are all unsullied.

The pits.

The wedding and Frey Pies

Blackfish escaping

sons of the harpy

Brienne and Pod if that doesn't happen in this next episode

There really hasn't been anything other than minor clashes for most of this season outside of the battle on the wall and I think people overall are more interested in the game play and the interpersonal dynamics and 4 & 5 were filled with that. I mean, we have the rise of the sparrows to flesh out, Stannis and the conflict at the wall with Melisandre and Jon and whatever Shireen's purpose will be. Plus Mance infiltrating Winterfell and Yara (Asha) getting caught and reunited with Theon.

There is just so much that I think may have read as boring in the books but given the quality of the cast can be just perfect. I mean, just Tyrion talking about people gets rave reviews so I don't think we need serious action to satisfy people.

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I see so much talk in the forums about the whole Quentyn story getting left out.



I just can't see that. It's central to the Dorne story, Quentyn and his buds are interesting characters, and DRAGONS!



Streamlining? Sure, I can see that. Left out, no way.



One thing people should take into account is that I think the show is going to be able to get away with giving the Dorne story nearly as much space as it gets in the books, if not as much. Initially, I had thought it was just way too much new stuff way too late in the story, and they were going to streamline it from sumo wrestler to Olympic gymnast.



But here's the X factor: Oberyn's popularity. His character really went over big. In fact, I saw a recent fanbase poll that had him as the 2nd most popular character (favorite character of 11% of the fan base) to Tyrion's #1. Granted, Tyrion crushed him with 26%, but still. As long as they tie Dorne heavily in to revenge for Oberyn, which in fact is really what kicks the Dorne story off, I think they can go with a lot of Dorne and it will work. Plus sexy Sand Snakes.


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But here's the X factor: Oberyn's popularity. His character really went over big. In fact, I saw a recent fanbase poll that had him as the 2nd most popular character (favorite character of 11% of the fan base) to Tyrion's #1. Granted, Tyrion crushed him with 26%, but still. As long as they tie Dorne heavily in to revenge for Oberyn, which in fact is really what kicks the Dorne story off, I think they can go with a lot of Dorne and it will work. Plus sexy Sand Snakes.

I personally think part of the culling this year (RIP Pyp, Grenn, etc) is to make way for Dorne charcters. Excited.

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some say that dude who went crazy after the wildlings and the crows came fighting each other in the kitchen and came with that larg meat knife is actually three fingers -Hobb ??????!!!!


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By the by I liked what Sam deduced about the NW's vows, it all makes sense, it's essentially what Jeor Mormont said the first season.

Take no wife , father no children, (in other words don't start a family) ... says nothing about keeping your wick dry!

I am guessing George meant it that way?

Edited by boojam

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some say that dude who went crazy after the wildlings and the crows came fighting each other in the kitchen and came with that larg meat knife is actually three fingers -Hobb ??????!!!!

Who the heck was that dude? Has we seen him before?

One aspect of S3E09's aftermath is that basically now the only people at The Wall the audience knows or cares about are Lord Jon Snow, Samwell Tarly, Gilly, Little Sam, Dolorous Edd, Aemon Targaryen (and maybe the little kid who killed Ygritte). Janos Slyn, Allister and Tormund are also still at Castle Black as well but do we really care about them?

I thought the episode was good, not great. In the books, Jon is my favorite character (and then Arya) but in the show it is probably Tyrion followed by Brienne/Arya. Stannis I really don't care about one way or the other.

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By the by I liked what Sam deduced about the NW's vows, it all makes sense, it's essentially what Jeor Mormont said the first season.

Take no wife , father no children, (in other words don't start a family) ... says nothing about keeping your wick dry!

I am guessing George meant it that way?

I don't think so. Sam's interpretation is "novel."

But while they consider sex to be against the rules, it's the kind of violation that is treated with a nod and a wink. Numerous black brothers visit the brothels in Mole's Town regularly - I mean why do you think they even have multiple brothels in Mole's Town?

In the books, most of Mole's Town is subterranean, and the crows call visiting the brothels "digging for buried treasure." Brothers visiting Mole's Town are known as "miners."

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Who the heck was that dude? Has we seen him before?

One aspect of S3E09's aftermath is that basically now the only people at The Wall the audience knows or cares about are Lord Jon Snow, Samwell Tarly, Gilly, Little Sam, Dolorous Edd, Aemon Targaryen (and maybe the little kid who killed Ygritte). Janos Slyn, Allister and Tormund are also still at Castle Black as well but do we really care about them?

Well, people seem ready and willing to care about Alliser Thorne after his heroic showing in the defense of the Wall, anyway. We'll see what sort of disposition he has in the next episode and if he has absorbed Bowen Marsh has more of a respect, if not like, for Jon Snow now going forward.

Or he could go the other way, believe whatever bullshit Slynt inevitably spins about himself and Jon, and cement his Hateable Status (hate's a form of emotional investment after all :D)

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some say that dude who went crazy after the wildlings and the crows came fighting each other in the kitchen and came with that larg meat knife is actually three fingers -Hobb ??????!!!!

Hobb was mentioned earlier in the season so yeah, I think that was supposed to be him.

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Who the heck was that dude? Has we seen him before?

One aspect of S3E09's aftermath is that basically now the only people at The Wall the audience knows or cares about are Lord Jon Snow, Samwell Tarly, Gilly, Little Sam, Dolorous Edd, Aemon Targaryen (and maybe the little kid who killed Ygritte). Janos Slyn, Allister and Tormund are also still at Castle Black as well but do we really care about them?

Six important characters are pretty good to wrap up the remainder of the season (beyond the sea you have Dany, Barristan, Missandei, Grey Worm, Daario, Jorah, and possibly Hizdahr; Arya's storyline only has two important people; Stannis really only has himself, Melisandre, Davos, Shireen, and Selyse; Sansa, Petyr, and Robin are holding down the Vale story alone for the most part...).

I think later they will reintroduce Mance Rayder though and possibly some other members of his court like Val if they decide to use that character. I also think that Alliser's bigger role in this episode was a good move too since it kind of showed him in a fairly positive light leading the main sortie against the wildlings and delivering three inspirational speeches in about two minutes.

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Saw episode just now. Brilliant! Moved to tears with Grenn, Pyp and Ygritte's death - And just realised I've been humming that bit of music since it must have appeared in season 3.. never knew where it was from till now!

No need for Stannis till next week. It would have completely stole Jon Snows thunder, and also cut his suicide mission.

Can't wait for next week. Loved the episode and noted how well directed it was. The action flowed naturally and "realistically".

UKS

P.S. I still don't get the Stannis fans. All the info we have on him really is through the POV of a lovely guy who thinks the sun shines out of his behind. Unreliable narrator perhaps? I

I dunno, he came across pretty well in Jon's chapters too, and Asha's

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