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And in there lies the rub....

The truly great shows of the modern era - Deadwood, Madmen, The Wire, Breaking Bad - didn't need to repeat themselves. You either 'got it' or you didn't. The show runners said it ONCE and then it was up to the viewer to keep up. No spoon-feeding story lines.

you mean like the ten times explained Joffs mourder? Perhaps LF playing it later with puppets and dolls to sansa would had made it more clear.
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I was really digging Alliser this episode. It was a nice callback to his "do you fucking know what it's like to get stuck North of the wall and do some Hannibal shit just to survive?" speech in season 1. A good leader out in the field, not a good ruler. Then Slynt's flaccid "meep!" had me rolling. No giants, NOPE. We got a Mountain and he's just a shade shorter! But yeah, Alliser marching down like a boss because shit was about to get real was A+ in my book.


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No one is doing this. You are glossing over why people (legitimately) are complaining about the show. There have been changes and omissions from the source material that have been terrible and nonsensical and 100% worthy of criticism. I know that they can't 100% adapt the books and that's not what I expect. Some of the things HBO have done are noticeably bad though.

Non-readers dont know whats omitted or changed so they dont notice. They take it for just part of the story. I understand the regular criticism.... but to claim the show isnt great and act like an episode like this was a 0 out of 10? Thats insanity.

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But no one could've predicted Samwell's rise to manhood (with nary a pink mast!!!!!)

:lmao: The popular Jaime GIF "I immediately regret this decision" would take on a whole new tenor.

Brienne: "How are you going to hold him off? You have no sword!"

Tormund: "No, but I have something far better. HAR!"

Immediately pulls out a cell phone and calls Ygritte like "Guess who I'm balls deep inside of right now. *Roar of pleasure in the background*"... Tormund makes beastiality fashionable.

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I was really digging Alliser this episode. It was a nice callback to his "do you fucking know what it's like to get stuck North of the wall and do some Hannibal shit just to survive?" speech in season 1. A good leader out in the field, not a good ruler. Then Slynt's flaccid "meep!" had me rolling. No giants, NOPE. We got a Mountain and he's just a shade shorter! But yeah, Alliser marching down like a boss because shit was about to get real was A+ in my book.

Yeah. Alliser was seriously badass to the point that my mum was rooting for him in the Tormund fight. (i was rooting for Tormund)

And Balon Greyjoy is still alive.

The Banana Peel Of Doom is coming. Patience, my pets.

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I think thats you reading way too much into things.

Fantastic analysis, well done. The show has a way of magnifying poor decisions made by characters and making them blatantly obvious if you know where to look when it comes back to bite them later on. Jon's never been a big favorite for plenty of people and is considered the least interesting lead character by most critics, sullied or unsullied. Jon's options for living, other than the fact that the knives were never in overly vulnerable locations were never great. I wouldn't buy the warg-into-Ghost plot for a second; that would just be a major cop-out on GRRM's part.

All I'm saying is that D&D are doing a great job of making Jon as forgettable as possible; it's been that way from the get go, it was that way through this season, which was supposed to be his season, so if when the time comes and Jon is stabbed as it's likely we'll see it on the show and learn his fate before we learn it from the books I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out he really is dead.

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Yeah. Alliser was seriously badass to the point that my mum was rooting for him in the Tormund fight. (i was rooting for Tormund)

Me too dude. I was just a little put off by Ser Gregor not saving Alliser and putting Tormund in the brig like he does towards the end of SoS. I am hoping we might get some mention of Gregor healing Alliser from his wounds in episode 10 though, before he treats with Mance.

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LOL

D&D even get criticized when they stick to the books.

I no longer know what these people want.

They're not being criticized for "sticking to the books". They're being criticized for how they structured the episode (and, by implication, the preceding episodes of this storyline).

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Non-readers dont know whats omitted or changed so they dont notice. They take it for just part of the story. I understand the regular criticism.... but to claim the show isnt great and act like an episode like this was a 0 out of 10? Thats insanity.

Yeah I totally get that non-readers love the show. Every unsullied who asks me if they should get the books I immediately shoot them down. I tell them straight up they will get significantly more enjoyment out of GRRM's story if they just watch the show and never bother with the books. For TV it's an awesome show. As a book reader I already know they could have done a better job. Sometimes I wish I didn't read the books so that I could enjoy the TV series more.

I know they cannot include everything but I do expect a reasonable amount of quality. They only get one shot at this. When they cut out important book material, interpret it poorly, waste air time on character development for shitty background characters, create original, extremely lame characters unnecessarily, make other characters heroes and other villains out of bias, ect., that's not cool.

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