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He had no emotions in the book in regards to Ygritte's death.

yes i know, tell that to The Red Melli

Edited by igrewupinKL

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What's up with Jon being the guy to initate the dishonorable parlay and attempt to kill Mance?

Jon has Stark blood and him coming up with that scheme is so out of character!

I predicted this would happen. That they will have Jon volunteer for the suicide mission. It gives him agency, and makes it more heroic for him to basically give his life to save Sam and the rest of the Watch.

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I predicted this would happen. That they will have Jon volunteer for the suicide mission. It gives him agency, and makes it more heroic for him to basically give his life to save Sam and the rest of the Watch.

I'm pretty sure in the books they made his ass go be a the negotiator or die in attempt at Mance's camp in the books lmao... poor bastard.

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The Sam and Aemon scene was awesome! Except it maybe shouldn't have been in this episode. I think they are setting up they're relationship for next season though

Yeh the chant has to be there

Yea it was a good talk. But I couldn't really sit still and listen b/c I was so anxious to see the battle.

I can't wait for the chant next episode. Lot of people, including me, are upset we didn't see it this episode (I thought they were going to finish all the battles in this episode tbh). But where this episode left off, it makes more sense to put the chant in E10 of course. Patience Stannis fans.

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Yea it was a good talk. But I couldn't really sit still and listen b/c I was so anxious to see the battle.

I can't wait for the chant next episode. Lot of people, including me, are upset we didn't see it this episode (I thought they were going to finish all the battles in this episode tbh). But where this episode left off, it makes more sense to put the chant in E10 of course. Patience Stannis fans.

Yeh i was fully expecting to see the battle done this episode, but i guess what made it better for me is that i came on here and already saw that he didn't arrive this episode. So it kind've diffused the tension a bit and i could just sit back and enjoy it.

If they muck it up next episode THEN ill be mad. But for now i think they left it at a logical place. The battle on the wall went for days in the books anyway.

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Relax guys, we don't have to separate ourselves into Stannis vs AntiStannis. :rolleyes: I too wanted him to be in the ending, and I agree that it would make him more likeable and heroic, but it would take from the NW. I can still admire him in the next episode, along with all the rest of the amazing scenes there.

I'm not even anti-Stannis XD I just think that the episode worked better without him, and focused more on the story it was trying to tell rather than cram in something from the books that it wasn't. I can't wait to see Stannis' glorious entrance, but the Night's Watch deserved to have this episode all alone.

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Yeh i was fully expecting to see the battle done this episode, but i guess what made it better for me is that i came on here and already saw that he didn't arrive this episode. So it kind've diffused the tension a bit and i could just sit back and enjoy it.

If they muck it up next episode THEN ill be mad. But for now i think they left it at a logical place. The battle on the wall went for days in the books anyway.

good points.

That's probably why I was disappointed. I kept looking at the time wondering if they are going to get the Stannis scene right.

I think Stannis fans like my self will give it a higher rating when we revisit it.

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Loved it. Glad they are being faithful to the books more or less and didnt have Stannis show up early. I hope they dont play him up to much next week. WTF is it with people being pissed he didnt show up in this episode. Did of you actually read the books? I assume its mostly the people with a man crush on Stannis that are willing to comprimise the integrity of the events just so he gets a bigger spot light then he actually deserves . I would think most book readers would be happy that its being portrayed correctly. Great job D&D sticking to the way it actually did go down. We'll see Stannis next week and it seems like it will properly be done.

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Having Stannis in next episode will make much more sense.

I can't wait for the non-readers to see what a hero Stannis is.

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I predicted this would happen. That they will have Jon volunteer for the suicide mission. It gives him agency, and makes it more heroic for him to basically give his life to save Sam and the rest of the Watch.

I think he's also utterly devastated emotionally by what happened to Ygritte that he is pretty dead inside already, so why not try to save people's lives by giving his own?

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Jon is, along with Arya, my favorite character in the books but in the show he really annoys the hell out of me. Sam is also painful to watch. One of the worst episodes in the series ever.


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Loved it. Glad they are being faithful to the books more or less and didnt have Stannis show up early. I hope they dont play him up to much next week. WTF is it with people being pissed he didnt show up in this episode. Did of you actually read the books? I assume its mostly the people with a man crush on Stannis that are willing to comprimise the integrity of the events just so he gets a bigger spot light then he actually deserves . I would think most book readers would be happy that its being portrayed correctly. Great job D&D sticking to the way it actually did go down. We'll see Stannis next week and it seems like it will properly be done.

LOL please no one forced D&D to stretch out the battle at night over the whole episode. if you don't see the many unnecesary, boring scenes that could've easily been scrapped, you still have to admit there were 10 minutes left which could've been used for the morning after and the Stannis arrival. That's extra clear when we know the last episode will be 66 minutes, an unnecesary packing of everything that still needs to happen, while having lots of extra time in the previous episode.

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Really enjoyed the episode. Glad they didn't go with the predictable 'Stannis' ending. I really thought they would have, was pleasantly surprised. They're setting up for a big finale.



I didn't expect to like this episode more than Blackwater.... I didn't, but in saying that, I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. I wasn't very keen on the wall-to-wall action they've been promising for ages. I liked the quieter moments of Blackwater mixed with the action, but this had it's quiet moments too. Naturally the Jon/Ygritte scene was brilliantly done. I was worried it would be overdone, it wasn't, and not rushed either.


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You're kidding right? He was in the middle of a fookin' battle! what did you want him to do cry, go and kill the kid? Thats not Jon.

I loved that scene, i thought it was done appropriately

He had no emotions in the book in regards to Ygritte's death.

It was actually a very emotional scene in the books:

"He found Ygritte sprawled across a patch of old snow beneath the Lord Commander’s Tower, with an arrow between her breasts. The ice crystals had settled over her face, and in the moonlight it looked as though she wore a glittering silver mask.

The arrow was black, Jon saw, but it was fletched with white duck feathers . Not mine, he told himself, not one of mine. But he felt as if it were. When he knelt in the snow beside her, her eyes opened. “Jon Snow,” she said, very softly . It sounded as though the arrow had found a lung. “Is this a proper castle now? Not just a tower?”

“It is.” Jon took her hand. “Good,” she whispered. “I wanted t’ see one proper castle, before … before I …” “You’ll see a hundred castles,” he promised her. “The battle’s done . Maester Aemon will see to you.” He touched her hair. “You’re kissed by fire, remember? Lucky. It will take more than an arrow to kill you. Aemon will draw it out and patch you up, and we’ll get you some milk of the poppy for the pain.”

She just smiled at that. “D’you remember that cave? We should have stayed in that cave. I told you so.” “We’ll go back to the cave,” he said. “You’re not going to die, Ygritte. You’re not.” “Oh.” Ygritte cupped his cheek with her hand. “You know nothing, Jon Snow,” she sighed, dying."

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OK, I didn't hate it - solely based on the power of my love for Jon Snow and the NW as a bookreader - but it certainly was nowhere near as good (actually fantastic) as "Blackwater."

Imo they made four huge mistakes wrt this episode.

MISTAKE #1: Pushing the raid from the south to the end of the season. It made no sense, lead to pointless filler throughout the season, and undercut the emotional power of Ygritte's death scene.

MISTAKE #2: Not using the rest of the season to develop the characters at the Wall. The only characters we really know are Jon, Sam & Alliser (and one of them is an asshole). It's kind of hard to care about a bunch of nameless/soulless extras & vaguely-drawn bit players.

MISTAKE #3: Too much wall-to-wall action without a respite. Without anything else to cut to, the action gets repetitive, and it's hard to keep the momentum going. "Blackwater" had Maegor's Holdfast; this had nothing.

MISTAKE #4: Structuring the episode without a resolution. Not for Stannis's sake but for the sake of having a complete narrative, Jon going to treat with Mance should have been about the 4/5 mark, concluding with about 2 minutes of Stannis's army kicking ass. (And mirroring "Blackwater" is kind of the point.)

Agree with each and everyone of these. Especially the first one and the fourth one.

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It was actually a very emotional scene in the books:

"He found Ygritte sprawled across a patch of old snow beneath the Lord Commander’s Tower, with an arrow between her breasts. The ice crystals had settled over her face, and in the moonlight it looked as though she wore a glittering silver mask.

The arrow was black, Jon saw, but it was fletched with white duck feathers . Not mine, he told himself, not one of mine. But he felt as if it were. When he knelt in the snow beside her, her eyes opened. “Jon Snow,” she said, very softly . It sounded as though the arrow had found a lung. “Is this a proper castle now? Not just a tower?”

“It is.” Jon took her hand. “Good,” she whispered. “I wanted t’ see one proper castle, before … before I …” “You’ll see a hundred castles,” he promised her. “The battle’s done . Maester Aemon will see to you.” He touched her hair. “You’re kissed by fire, remember? Lucky. It will take more than an arrow to kill you. Aemon will draw it out and patch you up, and we’ll get you some milk of the poppy for the pain.”

She just smiled at that. “D’you remember that cave? We should have stayed in that cave. I told you so.” “We’ll go back to the cave,” he said. “You’re not going to die, Ygritte. You’re not.” “Oh.” Ygritte cupped his cheek with her hand. “You know nothing, Jon Snow,” she sighed, dying."

Seems like the same amount of emotion as they showed in the episode

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Seems like the same amount of emotion as they showed in the episode

Me, too. They pretty much did it straight from the book (her dying in his arms).

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Seems like the same amount of emotion as they showed in the episode

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. IMO Kit's acting was off, standing there gawking (with no emotional facial expressions) while she's been pierced by an arrow is not emotional to me. But to each it's own.

Edited by MoIaF

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