How would you rate episode 409?

[Daenerys Must Die]

9/10 for me... thoroughly enjoyed it although my initial reaction after the cliffhanger was a bit of disappointment .. Some episodes you find yourself waiting for one moment, and when the moment doesn't come/or doesn't deliver, there's a sense of letdown as opposed to reflecting on what was good about it.

[Quillon]

I think GOT did a great job with this episode in terms of their action scenes. I will say that Vikings does a great job too. Their battle sequences are amazing.

Only the last battle was good in Vikings, other battles needed more men, they were like people bashing/shieldwalling each other on a 10 meter line for most of the time.

[Brother Walfrid]

6

Very underwhelmed, felt too piecemeal for their to be any tension,,,at no point did I feel they were fighting for their lives.

Given that the whole episode was at the wall,,why was there no climax? Poor decision making

[boojam]

Blackwater went some 26 minutes before anyone died. None of this stuff was filler, in this case. Taking time to use Pypar as a focal point for the fear many felt, and as a way to understand how Samwell was dealing with it, and for showing us Alliser Thorne dealing with the tribulations of command, and so on -- they're important when you're putting lives in jeopardy, as they're a way to reinforce whatever connections people may have.

Now, that said, had the writers done the smart thing and skipped the Craster nonsense and left Jon and co. at Castle Black, and given us more of a story about the tensions there, about the people there, maybe these pieces of characterization would have been stronger for some, or maybe they wouldn't have needed so much of it (though really, I doubt they were going to make it 45 minutes of non-stop action).

The 'battle' comprises 3 chapters of SoS (sort of) , as I remember, one is the assault from the south which was not exactly coordinated with Mance's attack.

So I did not see how they could fit that all in.

It seems we got most the repulse of the attack from the south and some of the assault on the Wall.

There is a natural , sort of break, between Jon IX and Jon X , but I sort of expected Neil Marshall would finish of the sequence in Jon X... unless he directed it and it's next week, but HBO does not usually allow that kind of thing.

I am satisfied with this episode... but , man!, only 5 extra min. next week to jam in all the rest of the arcs?

Unless something something from SoS is being moved to next season?

I sort of expected they would have keep more of Jon's few friends for the future, now we are running out of 2nd-ary actors!(That's weird)

I swear at the end of the southern CB attack seemed there should have been about 5 crows left! That's kind of movie thing, always more wounded than killed does not fit film cannon.

Neil Marshall is a fine action director but I noticed some of movie cliche ... all hell is going on.. and , what PAUSE for those lines to be said.

If only Sam Peckinpah or Akira Kurosawa could have directed this episode! Naw they would have butted heads with HBO!

Edited June 9, 2014 by boojam

[mickyd]

Just watched it a 2nd time Going with a 6.

For pure entertainment a 10, it really did have me on the edge of me seat at least the first time, though the ending still sucked and sucked even more the 2nd time around.

As a book reader a 2, and the ending REALLY sucked. It didn't have to be Stannis arriving (but could have should have if they had pacing the plot better, and perhaps spread out the events of ep. 9 and starting it earlier thus having his entry be the climax of the episode) but still felt wrong. Make it be the siege it was rather than the apparant Wall attack being a handful of people and 1 or 2 of the 100's of giants and mammoths Mance had. Total loss of the epic scale the book had.

btw Hopefully sometime soon we will have seen the last of emo-Jon.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

You may want to grab a kleenex and cry it out, because 'haters' have as much a right to post as you do.

Focking right.

Negative opinions are also allowed.

[jaeherys]

You guys are saying "book purist" like that's a bad thing. Why is pointing out the flaws in a very flawed show so angering? "Book purist haters" are definitely more annoying at this point and are defending a low quality product. Or perhaps you're all too sensitive and can't accept that this show is a poor representation of superior books?

The problem with this attitude is that Game of Thrones is now the most successful series in the history of HBO.

So, regardless of whether this adaptation fits into your narrow view of what you believe is a "quality" product, it is indeed a quality product as indicated by the sustained success and weekly viewership.

Perhaps you are the one that is being too sensitive and can't accept the fact that the series is a wild success despite it not comporting to your narrow view of what makes for "quality" television.

[ctid1977]

I thought it was an awesome episode.

What I loved:

I loved all the love on the minor characters showing the scale of the battle.

Thorne; great to see a three dimensional arsehole for a change, I loved him telling Jon how it is. He has the voice for battle (a la Robert Baratheon), and his speeches were all fantastic. I don't think he's dead either which makes me happy.

Grenn and co shouting the vows at a rushing giant.

The scythe looked class.

Pyps death and Sam being a hero.

I loved Tormunds capture too.

Ygritte; I was welling up as much as I was when I read it, really well done.

Ghost, what can I say.

Even the giant going mad when the other giant died was cool.

What I didn't love:

Nothing. It was ace.

As for not finishing on Stannis, well I liked it, it worked for me and I'm a Stan fan. It was a bleak finish, perfect set up for the last episode and great to focus on the Nights Watch. The fighting, direction and cinematography were epic for me, that panoramic shot showing Jon, then Styr, then Ygritte, the Tormund and finishing on Sam was just class.

[Queen Whore]

9 because that was as close to an "all Jon Snow, all the time" episode as you're going to get and I have been starving for some Jon Snow being his true book self. Several parts emo, at least one part badass. It seemed like the previous episodes with him and Ygritte were dragged out terribly, whereas this one was pretty perfect for their interaction. Also, other than Pyp and Grenn (why oh why was there no Donal Noye?!) I thought it played out as pure as it could given some of the other twists that D&D have added in.

[Haldebrandt]

Impressive action and visuals + Boring characters and story == Mildly entertaining, mostly underwhelming episode.

[Bilbo Swaggins]

6/10. Would have had a 9.5/10 if they had Stannis!

[Ran]

... as indicated by the sustained success and weekly viewership.

Argumentum ad populum. Michael Bay, Adam Sandler, Justin Bieber have sustained success and enormous amounts of people willing to pay money to watch their films or listen to their music, but this doesn't actually say anything about the artistic merits of their work.

I'm a book purist. I want them to hit the same highs as far as their budget and time and technical constraints allow, or to approach the spirit of those highs. For my part, they succeeded here, but I can see a couple of ways it could have been even better. Others feel much more strongly about those things, and that's their right.

[Ser Creighton]

Yeah i agree with this. I hate how people bitch why are they giving this episode low when they are giving ten's. I have only given two tens to any GoT and they were Blackwater and Rains of Castamere.

Well you probably did that because they deserved it. You know some people like Bieber and Cirus, in fact a lot of people apparently. Keeping up with the Kardashians and Honey BooBoo are hit shows. This tells you two things, Darwin was wrong, and a lot of people have really bad taste and will like just about anything that trends. Generally I find they don't even know why they like that stuff, but they will become obsessed with it, lose perspective then lash out at anyone who challenges their self induced misconception of what's good or bad in order to maintain the delusion that they are like everyone else and therefore excepted.

[rmholt]

I thought it was going to be Sam too. Or maybe Pyp haha

I wanted Ygritte to change her mind and box the Thenn

[DreamSongs]

I gave the episode a 10. The acting/action sequences were all good. But I must say when it ended I felt something was missing. The episode was really good but had they built up the Wall story in prior episodes it would have been even better. Then, they could have ended this with the Jon/Mance parley and then Stannis riding in. I guess they wanted it to be a Jon Snow centric episode, which btw Kit handled quite well except for his reaction to Ygritte's death. And the music wilding attack music was epic.

Did you also note the cycling of characters? It was like they did a panoramic view with characters stepping in and transferring to scenes as they went on fighting or dying within the music. It was probably one of the more spectacular scenes choreographed on-screen for home television.

Enjoyed the episode but they haven't built the Wall storyline well enough for this episode to really mean something. I think the episode ended too early as well. Had it ended with Stannis it would have felt like a proper end to an epic battle.

Just watched it a 2nd time Going with a 6.

For pure entertainment a 10, it really did have me on the edge of me seat at least the first time, though the ending still sucked and sucked even more the 2nd time around.

As a book reader a 2, and the ending REALLY sucked. It didn't have to be Stannis arriving (but could have should have if they had pacing the plot better, and perhaps spread out the events of ep. 9 and starting it earlier thus having his entry be the climax of the episode) but still felt wrong. Make it be the siege it was rather than the apparant Wall attack being a handful of people and 1 or 2 of the 100's of giants and mammoths Mance had. Total loss of the epic scale the book had.

btw Hopefully sometime soon we will have seen the last of emo-Jon.

I thought it was an awesome episode.

What I loved:

I loved all the love on the minor characters showing the scale of the battle.

Thorne; great to see a three dimensional arsehole for a change, I loved him telling Jon how it is. He has the voice for battle (a la Robert Baratheon), and his speeches were all fantastic. I don't think he's dead either which makes me happy.

Grenn and co shouting the vows at a rushing giant.

The scythe looked class.

Pyps death and Sam being a hero.

I loved Tormunds capture too.

Ygritte; I was welling up as much as I was when I read it, really well done.

Ghost, what can I say.

Even the giant going mad when the other giant died was cool.

What I didn't love:

Nothing. It was ace.

As for not finishing on Stannis, well I liked it, it worked for me and I'm a Stan fan. It was a bleak finish, perfect set up for the last episode and great to focus on the Nights Watch. The fighting, direction and cinematography were epic for me, that panoramic shot showing Jon, then Styr, then Ygritte, the Tormund and finishing on Sam was just class.

Exactly...this empty feeling leaves us ready for something...or someone...who can truly take charge because Jon Snow hasn't become that person.

The person that can step up and save the Wall now is Stannis. And I am OK with waiting until next week or next season to see that! If he had appeared in this episode, it would have been predictable. I am glad that they filmed this the way that they did. Technological CGI errors and all.

Edited June 9, 2014 by DreamSongs

[BeornJ]

10. Absolutely loved it. There was nothing I didn't like, and some of the scenes were amongst the best of the series. The Scythe, the great 360 crane shot of battle, Grenn inspiring his brothers while a giant charges at them, Jon killing a Thenn, Sam offhandedly killing a Thenn, Sam's great speech about becoming 'nothing'.

I was surprised Stannis didn't arrive this episode but in the end I'm glad he didn't. It gave a chance for the Night's Watch to be heroic, to continue fighting when all seems lost, then, when defeat seems inevitable, for Stannis to arrive.

[rmholt]

Wanted to see Stannis's arrival on the wall but looks like they are going to extend that to the season finale.

Also, why are these episodes ending nearly 10 minutes early?

To butthurt me.

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

It's a good thing Jon didn't win the LC vote by 2 or less.

[teej6]

This is what is my main problem. For almost four years, the Wall didn't have its proper moment, Jon's storyline was handled as it is almost secondary, and this year, it showed more than any other. The supporting ensemble in any other subplot, like Bronn, Shae, Brienne and Podrick in KL or Missandei and Greyworm in Essos are all fleshed out. Wall characters simply weren't. There was something lacking in the characterization that would make this episode be as memorable as the Blackwater was.

There was a moment of pure gold in cinematic way when the camera almost flowed through the courtyard focusing on each element of the battle. But, it was too short and not enough... This wasn't nearly as epic as they made it sound.

Mladen, now here I agree with you. They could have had the audience more invested in these characters. But still, perhaps, you are rating the episode a bit too harshly.

[BearQueen87]

I'm finding it hard to rate this one. I gave it an 8 overall, which is high, but it was a hard vote.

On the one hand the battle itself was great. Very dramatic! I loved all the giant stuff. I thought the 6 NW brothers saying the vow as a giant was charging at them was quite touching. The non-book deaths were shocking and gut-punchy. The death of Yigritte was expected, obviously and I thought it was done well and I'm glad they kept the final words

However...there was an obvious end to this episode and it didn't come. Had they spent less time in the beginning gearing up for the battle, we could have had the entire battle for the Wall in this one episode. So now we have to delay and have an JAM PACKED finale and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Worried, I guess.