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How would you rate episode 409?  

896 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      33
    • 2
      13
    • 3
      13
    • 4
      21
    • 5
      36
    • 6
      45
    • 7
      80
    • 8
      139
    • 9
      215
    • 10
      298


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* * * I do want to toss something out there though - about the lack of numbers of Wildlings (and I know this was never supposed to be about the full weight of Mance's army)... and the assertion it is because of budget. I'll just say this: "Mhysa"

Good point. Ralph Bakshi was doing armies of tens of thousands 30 years ago (with primitive CGI).

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Some people on this board have some really grandiose expectations. How was this battle not bad ass? Legs were chopped off, arms, heads, a hammer in a skull, arrows through necks, an anchor that sliced through fools, blood everywhere, ghost rippin out a throat. The only thing missing was Mel Gibson yelling freedom.

Lol this is exactly the kind of shit most people go nuts over. Forget all the well written drama and raw human emotion, just overload us with action and violence because our attention spans are so short. Sad ain't it?

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I've just re-watched both Blackwater and this episode back to back. I like them both about equally.


IMO, the Wall had better visuals (FX, camera etc.) and also better action choreography. Blackwater had better dialogue, though the Wall is not far behind, and more plot development thanks to the battle being brought to a conclusion. The feel of urgency and stakes are about the same, both episodes feeling like they passed really quickly. The Wall also had more drama during the action scenes - there were notable deaths on both sides, while Blackwater had none; Blackwater did add drama with Tyrion's injury and some of the dialogue. The performances of the actors were great in both episodes, but Lena takes the crown.


If I am being subjective, I like the Wall better, because it's my favorite battle in the books, too.


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After giving this episode a low rating yesterday i rewatched it. Though there were some cheesy lines, it was a good episode on par with blackwater.



My major peeve was not the delayed stannis, but the absent trap to kill Styr and the wildlings.



Other than that it was a good episode. The chain on the wall was awesome, Ygritte, Pyp and Grenn was sad. Loved that Jon snow learned to fight dirty from Focking Karl of Focking Gin Alley.


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Lol this is exactly the kind of shit most people go nuts over. Forget all the well written drama and raw human emotion, just overload us with action and violence because our attention spans are so short. Sad ain't it?

You gotta take it for what it's worth. It's a show, it's never going to truly depict the books. The plot hasn't changed, so what's the problem? I can understand when characters are omitted, I get why that upsets people. But a few changes here and there aren't the end of the world.

We are all GRRM and ASOIAF fans. This show was made to make new fans. The point is to gain new fans and have more people go out and read the books, and unfortunately you have to throw love bullshit into the mix, you have to have moments like Jon and Ygritte to get more people to watch.

It was an action scene, a battle, and I thought they did a great job. It wasn't Helms deep, but it was still pretty awesome. There are episodes like the Trial episode where acting and dialogue rules, and that episode was bad ass, but just because there is action and blood and guts doesn't make it any less entertaining, just like dialogue heavy episodes aren't any less entertaining. We just have to take it for what it is, a TV show "based" on a book series.

"This (insert any show here) was a true and accurate representation of the book.

- said no one ever

What made anyone think that was going to change when Game of Thrones was brought to HBO?

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Lol this is exactly the kind of shit most people go nuts over. Forget all the well written drama and raw human emotion, just overload us with action and violence because our attention spans are so short. Sad ain't it?

I believe there was plenty of drama and raw human emotion:

1) Sam the self-admitted coward finally decides to fight for Gilly (starting with "open the fucking gate!!") and steals a kiss while he's at it.

2) Jon tries to put his relationship with Ygritte into words...and fails.

3) Ygritte tries very hard to hide her love for Jon Snow...and fails.

4) Maester Aemon reveals he too has suffered a broken heart for duty.

5) Thorne begrudgingly admits to Jon Snow that he was wrong, and admits he's been a prick, but if they can put their mutual hatred aside, they can hope to survive and get back to hating each other.

6) The very orphan whose father Ygritte killed returns the favor.

7) Sam actually COMFORTING someone else during a battle (Pip).

8) The look on Edd's face as he suddenly "has the Wall." ("Shit, ME??? But I just stand around and make smartass comments!")

9) Ygritte's revealing the Wildlings' bitterness at being forever excluded from the rest of the realms.

Seems that people who hate the episode have two major complaints: It took too long to get to the battle, what with all the tedious annoying talking and drama, and there wasn't enough talking and drama which made the battle tedious and annoying.

Edited by WinterisAlwaysComing

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Lol this is exactly the kind of shit most people go nuts over. Forget all the well written drama and raw human emotion, just overload us with action and violence because our attention spans are so short. Sad ain't it?

There's tons of drama and emotion in the episode, moreso than action, to be honest.

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9 of 10 -- After my first view, I was going to give it a 6 (base 7 for an overall strong episode, -1 for cheap comparisons to last week I was going to make), but I don't cast my vote until after a second viewing, and I was really glad I waited this time.



While not *quite* as hyped as last episode (no two week break, and the prior episode build-up scenes were "very weak", especially compared to the multiple Tyrion & friend in dungeon scenes), it was definitely much awaited by book fans. Unlike last episode, where the "main event" got about 6 minutes of screen time that felt tacked on to the end of the episode, this episode's "main event" was very much front and center.



The main reason I'm not giving this episode a '10' is the "average" quality of the dialog -- no dialog really impressed me, and a few lines were pretty bad, but no scene overall struck me as horrible (well, some did on first viewing, but on my rewatch, it was more specific lines than entire scenes that irked me).



I think the story this week was pretty true to both the books and the (fortunately few references made to) prior show-only scenes. I don't get people griping about "no Stannis" -- in the books, the rag tag Watch holds off the Wildlings for several days before more Nights Watch reinforcements arrive, and then Thorne and Slynt send Jon off to kill Mance, which is how this episode ended. I was disappointed that Grenn and Pyp died, but that's because I like them. I thought they died well, which is much better than other characters (Locke, Karl) can say. Their deaths didn't feel cheap, and I think the episode would have had less impact without a Named character dying (and just introducing Donal Noye to die this episode would feel cheap, as would have having no-names die in his place -- Grenn was (imo) one of the best "younglings" at the wall, so losing him is a hurt to the Wall that you can feel).



I'm glad the show gave Thorne a chance to show his "true colors" as a dedicated man of the Night's Watch; in contrast, I was a little disappointed by how cowardly they made Slynt look; he is supposed to be corrupt, not incompetent. At least they didn't give him the complete Mace Tyrell = Tool treatment.



While I didn't like the elevator speed, I think that having the battle fought on both fronts at once (instead of Castle Black, then Mance's forces like in the books) really worked for the show -- in books, cutting back and forth would be distracting, but the use of long shots while going back and forth a few times really made it feel like one huge battle.



Anyway, I gave last episode a '1' for totally missing the "epic" feel of the main event; this week's episode shows the level of focus and integration I would have like to have seen. Not necessarily 100% of the episode at King's Landing, just a feeling that the duel was "main event" and everything else revolved around it.


Edited by ground_control

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A 7 for me. Good acting overall, great technical skill in the direction and photography, good CGI. But the writing really hurts the ranking. Over-extended cheesy scenes(sex by Jon, love by Aemon, Gilly shuttle), predictable deaths, missing third act and some over the top stretches of disbelief(anvil head, ghost locked, strangle Mance, no plan vs Tormund group).


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I have to give this episode a 9 out of 10.



Sam killed it dialog-wise. He had the best lines overall. Loved Thorne's admission he was wrong. He proved to be a true man of the Watch, and the fight with Tormund was pure pleasure to watch.



Ygritte's death was a little too staid for me. I had no feeling except yay. But I did love the nod from Olly to Jon. Sometimes karma isn't a bitch, but a kid with a grudge.



Cannot believe this season is almost over...


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Some people on this board have some really grandiose expectations. How was this battle not bad ass? Legs were chopped off, arms, heads, a hammer in a skull, arrows through necks, an anchor that sliced through fools, blood everywhere, ghost rippin out a throat. The only thing missing was Mel Gibson yelling freedom.

this ^

lol

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9 of 10 -- After my first view, I was going to give it a 6 (base 7 for an overall strong episode, -1 for cheap comparisons to last week I was going to make), but I don't cast my vote until after a second viewing, and I was really glad I waited this time.

While not *quite* as hyped as last episode (no two week break, and the prior episode build-up scenes were "very weak", especially compared to the multiple Tyrion & friend in dungeon scenes), it was definitely much awaited by book fans. Unlike last episode, where the "main event" got about 6 minutes of screen time that felt tacked on to the end of the episode, this episode's "main event" was very much front and center.

The main reason I'm not giving this episode a '10' is the "average" quality of the dialog -- no dialog really impressed me, and a few lines were pretty bad, but no scene overall struck me as horrible (well, some did on first viewing, but on my rewatch, it was more specific lines than entire scenes that irked me).

I think the story this week was pretty true to both the books and the (fortunately few references made to) prior show-only scenes. I don't get people griping about "no Stannis" -- in the books, the rag tag Watch holds off the Wildlings for several days before more Nights Watch reinforcements arrive, and then Thorne and Slynt send Jon off to kill Mance, which is how this episode ended. I was disappointed that Grenn and Pyp died, but that's because I like them. I thought they died well, which is much better than other characters (Locke, Karl) can say. Their deaths didn't feel cheap, and I think the episode would have had less impact without a Named character dying (and just introducing Donal Noye to die this episode would feel cheap, as would have having no-names die in his place -- Grenn was (imo) one of the best "younglings" at the wall, so losing him is a hurt to the Wall that you can feel).

I'm glad the show gave Thorne a chance to show his "true colors" as a dedicated man of the Night's Watch; in contrast, I was a little disappointed by how cowardly they made Slynt look; he is supposed to be corrupt, not incompetent. At least they didn't give him the complete Mace Tyrell = Tool treatment.

While I didn't like the elevator speed, I think that having the battle fought on both fronts at once (instead of Castle Black, then Mance's forces like in the books) really worked for the show -- in books, cutting back and forth would be distracting, but the use of long shots while going back and forth a few times really made it feel like one huge battle.

Anyway, I gave last episode a '1' for totally missing the "epic" feel of the main event; this week's episode shows the level of focus and integration I would have like to have seen. Not necessarily 100% of the episode at King's Landing, just a feeling that the duel was "main event" and everything else revolved around it.

You have way too much time on your hands.

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Enjoyed it but it was sort do anticlimactic because the Wall is Jon, Sam, and glorified extras. I think had they gone all the way and had Mance as well as Stannis, Davos, and melisandre, it would have had the feeling of multiple threads coming together and been remembered better.

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Then why is it more popular now than it was in Season 1?

Same reason I finally binge watched The Wire and Breaking Bad. More people deciding to try it.

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You have way too much time on your hands.

? I love the books, it's my favorite show on tv (one of only 3 I am watching currently, and the only book or tv series on which I spend time reading & posting) and watching it twice (2 hrs), thinking about it (a few hours), and typing up my thoughts (15 min) is "too much time"?

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Not sure where to post this but I tallied the ratings for each of the episode rating threads and ranked the episodes based on the results:

Apologies if this has already been posted.

[8.77] E06 - "The Laws of Gods and Men"

[8.33] E07 - "Mockingbird"

[8.32] E02 - "The Lion and the Rose"

[8.18] E01 - "Two Swords"

[8.16] E08 - "The Mountain and the Viper"

[7.99] E09 - "The Watchers on the Wall"

[7.78] E04 - "Oathkeeper"

[7.38] E05 - "First of His Name"

[6.99] E03 - "Breaker of Chains"

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