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How would you rate episode 409?  

896 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      33
    • 2
      13
    • 3
      13
    • 4
      21
    • 5
      36
    • 6
      45
    • 7
      80
    • 8
      139
    • 9
      215
    • 10
      298


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Yep a reread might be in order for many....

Jon is one of the main characters if not thee main character Stannis is a player but not a main player.. He will come rest assured there would be huge hole in the story if he doesn't show up at the wall..

Well, if he didn't show up, Jon would die and the Wildlings would breach the Wall, destroy the Night's Watch and go raiding all over the realm.

So yeah, he sorta has to show up.

Edited by sj4iy

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Well, if he didn't show up, Jon would die and the Wildlings would breach the Wall, destroy the Night's Watch and go raiding all over the realm.

So yeah, he sorta has to show up.

If he doesn't, where's he going with Sallador Saan and that big sack of gold?

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OMG!!! That is such a terrible sign. We're probably looking at 2016-2017 release date for Winds. This is so INFURIATING!

This is my favorite kind of post.

The FAQ by the way says if the show gets ahead of the book then (dun dun DUUUUNNNN) the show gets ahead of the book.

You don't kill, or maim, or whine about, your golden egg layer. You just don't. There are some fine anger management classes out there ;/

Edited by rmholt

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If he doesn't, where's he going with Sallador Saan and that big sack of gold?

Where the whores go :)

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Books 4 and 5 are dull and boring if you are a simpleton.

Bit harsh but I agree that they are in no way boring for me. Action smacktion, pacing shmacing

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OMG!!! That is such a terrible sign. We're probably looking at 2016-2017 release date for Winds. This is so INFURIATING!

Nah, late 2015 and I didn't see any such implication in what GRRM's editor said at all.

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This is my favorite kind of post.

The FAQ by the way says if the show gets ahead of the book then (dun dun DUUUUNNNN) the show gets ahead of the book.

You don't kill, or maim, or whine about, your golden egg layer. You just don't. There are some fine anger management classes out there ;/

Best part will be when people start complaining that the book "adaptation" stray to far from the series :P

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I give a 4.


The episode was well below the previous, beautiful one.


Slamming the two battles at the wall into one single event was probably a forced choice but still felt really clumsy. The attack of the Thenns and Tormund from the inside was turned into some kind of superhero battle between a few huberheroes and a crowd of dying extras, what a pity. As in the worst action movies, characters can only killed by characters. Extras can't kill charatcters, it seems.



The character of Alliser Thorne was glorified as a fierce warrior when he'd been mostly a ranting cunt so far, and Janos Slynt (a fighter) was ridiculed beyond recognition.



The speed of crossbow reloading is shortened beyond possibility.



All in all, they could have excluded the battle OUTside the wall, which was totally uncool (only CGI, that is) and focused on the only one that mattered, the one on the inside, making it more worthy. One thing that can't be explained is, if Mance thought that more crows were present in clastle black, how could he think to overcome them by such a small force as the one he sent?



And the last, totally ridicule scene, the Thenns+Tormund having a campfire (not spotted, clearly) a few hundred yards from the gate of the castle.... pfffffffffff


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What is very entertaining about all the people marking it down because there was no Stannis is that there was no Stannis in the books either!



In the books the Nightswatch fight the wildlings off, then Jon is sent to kill Mance and then, and only then, Stannis arrives.



Aside from combining this with an earlier attack from the south and changing some characters around (due to characters not created on the show) this was fairly faithful to the books.

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I don't think to vote a 10 is saying the episode was perfect. Even my top 10 movies and tv episodes of all time are not in a word perfect. I vote a 10 if I believe it's one of the best episodes of TV I've seen and/or if it stands out as one of the best episodes of the series.

Haha.

I must know what you voted after reading that!

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Best part will be when people start complaining that the book "adaptation" stray to far from the series :P

I can't wait!

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I can't wait!

I look forward to it myself, it nothing else for the bitching and moaning XD

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I give a 4.

The episode was well below the previous, beautiful one.

Slamming the two battles at the wall into one single event was probably a forced choice but still felt really clumsy. The attack of the Thenns and Tormund from the inside was turned into some kind of superhero battle between a few huberheroes and a crowd of dying extras, what a pity. As in the worst action movies, characters can only killed by characters. Extras can't kill charatcters, it seems.

The character of Alliser Thorne was glorified as a fierce warrior when he'd been mostly a ranting cunt so far, and Janos Slynt (a fighter) was ridiculed beyond recognition.

The speed of crossbow reloading is shortened beyond possibility.

All in all, they could have excluded the battle OUTside the wall, which was totally uncool (only CGI, that is) and focused on the only one that mattered, the one on the inside, making it more worthy. One thing that can't be explained is, if Mance thought that more crows were present in clastle black, how could he think to overcome them by such a small force as the one he sent?

And the last, totally ridicule scene, the Thenns+Tormund having a campfire (not spotted, clearly) a few hundred yards from the gate of the castle.... pfffffffffff

Thorne IS a formidable fighter in the books and show, he's a seasoned NW man, chosen to train the troops (though he may fail at that) and was a seasoned knight before that. There's no evidence that Slynt is a fighter at all

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Thorne IS a formidable fighter in the books and show, he's a seasoned NW man, chosen to train the troops (though he may fail at that) and was a seasoned knight before that. There's no evidence that Slynt is a fighter at all

Agreed. I didn't see the characterizations of either as wrong...actually, I'm glad we see a different side of Thorne than we do in the book, because he always felt too one-note for my liking. Giving him some shades of grey doesn't change his character, it just makes him more real, imo.

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Well Thorne was a knight, i know the ser title doesnt need much but he did fight and survive Tywin Lannisters sack of kings landing so he must be able to hold his own. As for Slynt, firstly he was a cheat and a liar who murdered and bribed his way to command. Secondly where was he when stannis lay seige? His absence was notable!

But he can murder bastard infants and children, so he MUST be a great fighter, right?

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But he can murder bastard infants and children, so he MUST be a great fighter, right?

I believe he subcontracted that out to a specialist [Deems?]. A la Office Space, Slynt is a "people person".

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I believe he subcontracted that out to a specialist [Deems?]. A la Office Space, Slynt is a "people person".

True...why do the dirty work yourself when you have peons to do it for you?

I can totally imagine him in Office Space now XD

Edited by sj4iy

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So after a rewatch.... and I will try to do it based on the show with minimal book bias.



Yes, it was a fantastic 49 minutes of television (or 50 min 30 seconds if the HBO static and end credits are included)


  • Great cinematics and camera work.
  • I totally bought the giant and mammoth sequences.
  • Thorne was just as he should be
  • Sam/Gilly and Sam/Aemon sequences annoyed me on first watch but I do like them second time around
  • Greatest moment - Grenn holding the gate. One of the best in the entire show IMO.


I'd really love to give it a 10 but there are just a few issues.



  • Gilly saw the Wildlings encamped 200 m from Castle Black but didn't tell any one?
  • Jon has forgotten why the clans united behind Mance?
  • Slynt was a little too cartoony coward
  • The sequence immediately prior to Jon holding Ygritte was to cliche for my tastes.
  • Book reader me loved the depiction of Ygritte's death, but trying to judge the show by itself, Show watcher me just didn't care.
  • Why do I even care about this battle anyway (as a show watcher)?
  • Not enough Ghost.


The book reader in me had expected the episode to run through to show all the events up to the arrival of you-know-who. This really coloured how I viewed it the first time around and why I had to (for the first time) sit down for a rewatch before I passed a score. The episode as presented was visually fantastic but the niggles took me out of the moment too often.



So a 9 feels appropriate....



Except....



It was a 50 minute episode in a series that has now run for 8 hrs and 3 minutes (9 episodes) - and they just have not spent enough resources on making people care a single iota about the Wall. I have no doubt I'll be going back to review my scores on previous episodes too and fully expect to downgrade scores - where I had initially thought I might upgrade when I carried out that process.



8/10 - and I am still torn on that.


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