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How would you rate episode 409?  

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  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

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Did anyone else enjoy how Jon subdued (for a lack of a better word) Tormund? He totally owned that scene. Tormund's going to have a new found respect for Jonny boy.

That was awesome...I've gone back and rewatched that scene twice already just because I liked it so much XD Jon definitely puts Tormund in his place, which I imagine will be very important later on.

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After I watched it I still give it a 10. Not the same amount of drama in comparison with Blackwater (and no drunk Cersei), but the scale was much bigger. If you wasn't entertained, then you have no heart. So 9.5 with 0.5 as a bonus for raging fans of you-know-whom.

yeah if you never in your life watched historical action movie, you'll be crazy entertained

otherwise, it's like watching skyrim battle from spectator's perspective

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Sati, my intial reaction to the ending (not having Stannis ride in) was also wtf. But if you don't expect that and watch the episode, I think it's a really good episode. And like others have said my only gripe is that we would have felt more for the characters on the wall if D&D had fleshed them out better. But now I believe the only way they could have had Stannis in this Ep and not have it feel rushed is if they had built the attack on the Wall storyline over 2-3 eps.

They could have easily fit in some of the beginning of this ep in previous eps. Also the battle was underwhelming - was it shot well? Yes. Was it small and overhyped? Yes. Blackwater was far more epic - Wildfire > Fire, mammoth, giants. The music was better and the episode was so emotional and exciting. The ending was absolutely mesmerizing. Here the only emotions were from Sam, bunch of non important characters died and the ending was the worst Thrones ending ever.

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@ghost, I think I said it before, but its the set up that bugs me... tease giant attack, show aftermath of giant attack. like, what if the Oberyn duel started with the spear twirling cut away to another beetle story and came back to them both lying on the ground bloody? Not a perfect example since the Elia Bowl had a lot of plot weight and important character dialogue, but still.

suggest action, don't deliver, show aftermath... I can understand why they take this approach in a lot of the more complicated scenes but I'll never like it...

Edited by LordStoneheart
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My first 10/10 for an GOT episode. Still laughing at so called bookreaders thinking stannis shows up at the night siege when he comes during the day siege lmao.

^^ agree completely...

the acting and directing were wonderful, easily worth a 10... i read so much negativity about diverging from the books that it's almost shocking to read the same type thing (maybe even by the same people, i didn't research that) about stannis not showing up, even when he isn't supposed to (yet - for book lovers)

Edited by basilisk312
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It was a 10 for me. For them to dedicate the whole show to the wall and the first battle, epic. I will say though I don't get how they continuously have left almost 10 minutes remaining to spare in almost all of the shows this season. What is up with that? It hasn't even been hour long show. It boggles my mind. There is so much more that could be added in that 8-10 minutes that is getting left out. Wonder if it is due to budget constraints? Other than that I think they tried to match the book as much as possible with that battle and they did a great job.

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I changed my vote from 9 to 10. In hindsight, the abrupt ending makes sense, considering that they failed to give the audience a clue that Stannis is coming. It would have been totally a deus ex machina scene, and it would have been rushed, too. That being said, I hope we get to see the Horn of Winter and the eagle burning + some more giants kicking ass.

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7/10 for me just because Jon Snow kicked ass, Sam and Thorne were great and the mammoth and Giants were well done. And the scythe, can't forget the scythe. Aside from that however, I felt it was a disappointment overall and in no way was as good as Blackwater.

Looking forward to the continuation and the surprise arrival, but it feels, to me, that even that will feel watered down since they'll be wrapping up so much in one episode.

This one was waaaaaaaay too short.

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Easy 10.

I'm glad Stannis didn't show up- this episode should have, and did, focus solely on the Night's Watch. Stannis will get his big moment next episode. Be patient.

Yeah, I guess what bothers most people (inlcluding myself) is, that there will be so many big moments next episode and actually nobody of the Unsullied really cares about Stannis, do they?

I think it would have fit better into this episode (which was a bit short after all).

I gave it an 8 because I actually loved Alliser Thorne's and Grenn's scenes in this episode!

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1) In the books, the defense of the Wall lasts several days and consists of several skirmishes, none too big. The most important moments were the defense of Castle Black from the south and the destruction of the ram, with subsequent fight in the tunnels. I'm pretty pissed we got no ram, cause it's kinda the central piece of the siege.

2) The only "big" battle that happens is when Stannis arrives. I dont think it could have happened in this episode, because we got no real feel of the Mance army - we only got to see like a thousand people pointlessly snarling at the wall, even though they cant see anyone, 2 giants and 1 mammoth.

3) The only reason I'm pissed Stannis didnt show up yet, is because I wanted to see more of Stannis on the wall this season and his dry wit, but seems we are not getting any of that.

To summirize the disappointments: no ram, we dont see Mance main host at all.

I think the episode was alright. I'd give it a 6 or 7. In no way does it measure up to episode 9 of other seasons. The battle didnt have the scale, and nothing important happened plotwise (like the arrival of Stannis, which shouldnt have happened so soon anyway).

The thing is, I believe the siege of the Wall should have started in episode 7 or so, or even earlier, with each episode spending 10-15 minutes at the wall to show the highlights of the siege. It shouldnt be this one thing that happens, should be more of a background setting for a couple of episodes. Substitute pointless Craster's plotline with attack on Castle Black from the south in episode 7, let them set the first ram on fire in episode 8, and have the intire episode 9 focusing on the wall, starting from the 2nd ram with giants and battle at the tunnel, then parley in the middle of the episode, finish with THE battle, when Stannis smashes Mance - and there you have it.

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Yeah, I guess what bothers most people (inlcluding myself) is, that there will be so many big moments next episode and actually nobody of the Unsullied really cares about Stannis, do they?

I think it would have fit better into this episode (which was a bit short after all).

I gave it an 8 because I actually loved Alliser Thorne's and Grenn's scenes in this episode!

Ending this episode with Stannis would have made it basically Blackwater at the Wall. Also, the moment will definitely be remembered. Just because it isn't an end scene doesn't mean it won't have an impact. Come next season, people will remember Stannis' heroics in the face of doom. Impact on Jon was personally what I wanted, and got :)

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5/10 for me. Look lets be honest, I don't know many people who were overly thrilled about spending 55mins at The Wall. It worked for King's Landing in a few episodes, notably the Blackwater, but the storylines attached to The Wall have generally been the dullest for definitely at least this season. To me this was an episode that had to happen, but I'm glad we're past it now.


- Cinematography: It looked great. The light snow falling, the fire arrows and torches against the darkness, The Wall itself, you really got the feeling of how high up they were with the wind and perspective you got.

- Alliser vs Tormund: I enjoyed that one-on-one more than any other. For an older guy and a large robust guy, they both moved great.

- One-liners: There was a couple of really nice little lines amongst the chaos that i liked. My favourite of the episode was Jon's "yeah it's a shit plan, what's your plan?"

- The Wall's defense: I really liked a couple of The Wall's defense mechanisms. That giant swinging axe thing was fricken amazing, and the oil barrels with added fire for explosions later were cool too.

- Giants & Mammoth: Looked amazing. When that Giant was running through the tunnel, I felt intimidated just watching.


- Sam: This is one of the biggest problems. John Bradley is fine, Sam as a character is ok. But, he was largely responsible for carrying about half of the entire episode, and he is just not a good enough or strong enough character to be able to do this.

- General fighting: It got repetitive, like really repetitive.

- Ygritte's end: This one is not the shows fault. When i read her book death I thought it was pretty cheesy at the time. It was as expected even more cheesy on the show.

- Battle speeches: Did nothing for me, no matter who was giving them, couldn't put my finger on why. Possibly just general cliche type dialogue maybe.

- Janos Slynt: The show has gone a bit overboard in making him look as pathetic as possible i think.

- The ending point: The other major problem here. Where they ended it was dumb. They could have cut a good 15mins of this episode and used that time to make Stannis' arrival and quick victory the ending point.

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How old are you? Middle teens I would guess, based on your apparent level of reading comprehension, lack of coherence in your posts and attempted display of edginess?

Shut the fuck up and let the grown ups talk. Lurk a bit, post again when you have learned how to behave in this forum

Ownage at its finest.

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I voted 8 at first watch, then rewatched it and voted 9. Without the expectation that Stannis was coming I just evaluated the episode as a whole. I thought they did everything well, but it fell short of a 10 for me because it was quite short and I think they could've used that time to show anything really, not necessarily Stannis.

I really enjoyed:

- Jon telling Grenn to hold the gate and Grenn's response

- Thorne vs. Tormund fight

- Thorne's speech and general badassery

- Ygritte's reaction to Jon's smile

- Pyp dying in Sam's arms

- The exploration of fear/doubt from the NW boys about not being ready to die/ready for war

- Edd in command

- Tormund talking about fucking a bear

- Donal Noye nod with the hammer to the skull

- "There's no such thing as giants"

- Aemon and Sam's talk...I wanted him to go on!

- The scythe

Things I didn't care for:

- Olly killing Ygritte felt a bit too...cheesy? I don't know, at this point aSoIaF has ruined any predictable sentimental events for me, so this one felt a bit too much.

- The repeated notch, draw, loose commands...Just tell them to fire at will!

- Sam went a bit too quickly into being a romantic badass for my liking...Love or not, it would take some time for him to escape being shy, afraid, and I didn't really like his "I'm not nothing" speech.

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Solid 8 from me. I felt disappointment at the end of the episode because I expected it to move further. I didn't think we'd have anymore Wall scenes in the finale (there was already enough to do) and I expected the arc to be completed given the solo treatment. What I saw was really good (especially the tracking shot through the fighting) but the epicness was definitely diminished with the climax being put off a week. I'll give it a re-watch before the finale next week and should appreciate it more without the anticipation of resolution.

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