(Show spoilers) how could they kill...

[Cold Crashing Waves]

I don't see what the big deal is. I'd already formulated an opinion of the show after Season 2 when it became apparent that D&D were more than willing to interpolate their own glorified fanfiction. All of the pointless and unnecessary changes soured the experience for me and I knew it was only going to get worse from that point on. Do I need to actually watch Jaime rape Cersei in the show to know that's what happened? Or any other egregious deviation that takes place?

It really isn't a big deal to anyone, it's just completely stupid and narrow minded.

[Wolf in Hallowed Places]

Val ! Val ! Val ! We need Val !!!!!! (yeah, yeah, fan crush I know ! But I still have some more pragmatic reasons to really adore her character and hope she makes the cut and becomes more relevant later on !)

With the deaths of Grenn and Pyp, the show has some room to cast at least four new characters to the Wall storyline (not major all of them, since we'll already get Stan, Mel, Selyse and Shireen, manning the ranks) :

- Val.

- Bowen Marsh equivalent. At least one new important brother.

- Varamyr (who we know is being cast).

- A Queen's Man (Justin Massey seems the most logical choice).

Bowen Marsh has actually already featured, albeit very briefly, so no need for an equivalent. Earlier on the season, when Jon suggests filling the tunnel, Thorne says, 'Bowen Marsh, you lead the builders, could it be done?' or words to that effect.

I have a vague memory of an attractive blonde woman being cast before season 3 - it wasn't confirmed who she would play, but everyone was sure she would be Val. She doesn't seem to have materialised though...I don't know if they would cast someone 2 seasons early, or if she just got sidelined. I don't think that actress played anyone else, because I can't think of any characters she could possibly be.

If Val hasn't been dropped, I imagine we'll meet her next episode in Mance Rayder's tent. I imagine they'll combine her with Dalla, no need for both of them really.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Bowen Marsh has actually already featured, albeit very briefly, so no need for an equivalent. Earlier on the season, when Jon suggests filling the tunnel, Thorne says, 'Bowen Marsh, you lead the builders, could it be done?' or words to that effect.

I have a vague memory of an attractive blonde woman being cast before season 3 - it wasn't confirmed who she would play, but everyone was sure she would be Val. She doesn't seem to have materialised though...I don't know if they would cast someone 2 seasons early, or if she just got sidelined. I don't think that actress played anyone else, because I can't think of any characters she could possibly be.

If Val hasn't been dropped, I imagine we'll meet her next episode in Mance Rayder's tent. I imagine they'll combine her with Dalla, no need for both of them really.

No, Thorne didn't say it was Bowen Marsh in charge of the builders, iirc, he actually used the correct name, Othell Yarwyck. I know it wasn't Bowen Marsh, I'm 90% certain that he said Brother Yarwyck?

I put some of the below in spoiler tag as I just noticed this thread is labelled show spoiler, not sure if I should put book spoilers in hiding. I did so to be certain.

want Val, too, though. She's a very intriguing person, and I suspect she might have a future role to play. Also, I think the baby switch with her sister's baby and Gilly's was to illustrate........how Jon could have been 'switched' or just someone else's, passed off as a bastard, as Sam wanted to do with Gilly's son. I'm wondering if D&D are interested in those kind of hints for the show?

ETA: I just checked the episode guide here, and I was right, it is Yarwyck who is named as First Builder, not Marsh. IIRC, I think Marsh is said to exist, in previous season, I haven't checked on that, but I recall talk of him being named in cast lists in at least one previous year.

http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Episodes/Entry/Mockingbird/Episode_Spoilers/#Recap

[Cold Crashing Waves]

Val is a hot chick. That alone means she'll make it in. Gotta fill that T&A quota.

[Snowisnobastard]

I thought Bowen marsh was at the wall in season one, I'm almost positive that I recall someone calling him by name.

[Jay Stark]

I thought Bowen marsh was at the wall in season one, I'm almost positive that I recall someone calling him by name.

he was, infact the person playing bowen marsh (for first seasons), played othell yarwick in season 4. So maybe this caused some confusion? at least i think its the same bloke

[sj4iy]

he was, infact the person playing bowen marsh (for first seasons), played othell yarwick in season 4. So maybe this caused some confusion? at least i think its the same bloke

I believe in the first season he was simply a stand in and never called by name in the show itself, but he may have been credited as Marsh...hence the confusion.

[Justin Danford]

The problem being, what did GRRM have in store for Jon Snow's best buds? Those 4 always reminded me of Frodo, Same, Pippen, and Merry, and these 4 had large roles to play. GRRM is a big Tolkien fan...not saying there is definitely a correlation, but this may be another case of what GRRM has noted "the butterfly effect" happening to his story.

I'm curious how many butterflies D&D plan on squishing..:

[Wolf in Hallowed Places]

No, Thorne didn't say it was Bowen Marsh in charge of the builders, iirc, he actually used the correct name, Othell Yarwyck. I know it wasn't Bowen Marsh, I'm 90% certain that he said Brother Yarwyck?

I put some of the below in spoiler tag as I just noticed this thread is labelled show spoiler, not sure if I should put book spoilers in hiding. I did so to be certain.

want Val, too, though. She's a very intriguing person, and I suspect she might have a future role to play. Also, I think the baby switch with her sister's baby and Gilly's was to illustrate........how Jon could have been 'switched' or just someone else's, passed off as a bastard, as Sam wanted to do with Gilly's son. I'm wondering if D&D are interested in those kind of hints for the show?

ETA: I just checked the episode guide here, and I was right, it is Yarwyck who is named as First Builder, not Marsh. IIRC, I think Marsh is said to exist, in previous season, I haven't checked on that, but I recall talk of him being named in cast lists in at least one previous year.

http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Episodes/Entry/Mockingbird/Episode_Spoilers/#Recap

Ah yeah you're right. Mea culpa. I must have gotten the names mixed up.

Interesting idea about the baby being a hint-dropping device.

[Seneti]

The problem being, what did GRRM have in store for Jon Snow's best buds? Those 4 always reminded me of Frodo, Same, Pippen, and Merry, and these 4 had large roles to play. GRRM is a big Tolkien fan...not saying there is definitely a correlation, but this may be another case of what GRRM has noted "the butterfly effect" happening to his story.

I'm curious how many butterflies D&D plan on squishing..:

Considering that neither of them do much in the books, particularly not post-ASOS, I think it's safe to say that they aren't that important plot-wise (unless Martin does a major a**pull in AWOW and ADOS and suddenly has them singlehandedly save the Wall or something like that).

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

Scandaloso! How could they kill poor Pyp. He still had so much to do.

[sj4iy]

Scandaloso! How could they kill poor Pyp. He still had so much to do.

Indeed. Who else will make those jokes about Melisandre for Jon to shush like a little kid?

[Lord Defiance]

Grenn and Pyp were awesome. I'm still mad they are dead now.

[Batbob45]

Samwell and Shireen could mock Mel. they can also use Olly or Edd