[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick Without Repercussion

[aFeastForDragons]

The more I watch this episode the worse it gets.

How half this stuff makes it past writing is mind boggling. I can't imagine George is to happy with some of their adaptions but we'll never hear it from him.

[Kev Morel]

The term 'Unsullied' on this site means 'unspoiled' or non-book-readers: people who haven't read the book for one reason or another. Some of my friends don't read unfinished stories, so they are waiting until the series of novels is done before reading. Others haven't the time, and one is dyslexic, making reading a story the length of ASoIaF intimidating.

Haha thanks, I figured it was something along those lines just couldnt find a place to confirm

[Kungsmurfen]

I enjoyed it but I think that the assaut from outside the Wall and the assault of Ygrittes group should have been in different episodes. That way we could have three episodes of the season that focused alot on major events at the Wall and we wouldn't get stuck with Stannis arrival at the Wall in the last episode. Imo that could have worked great in the same episode as Viper vs Mountain and that could have been the episode 9.

I'm also a bit annoyed that we haven't got much buildup for Bran which could have worked great in a Wall-based episode but I guess it's alright.

I thought Grenn and Pyp's death's were great but the scythe-thingy annoyed me. I also wanted more of a view of the huge wildling army but it's a tv-show so I can forgive them for that. Overall I don't have much to complain about in this episode!

[Veltigar]

Oh, yeah! Stannis' nod to the cook would be fantastic to hear after that particular scene!

Craster's women trapping the deserters inside then burning the Keep ... I'd watch that!

It would be much better than the drab they forced down our throats :D No plotholes, saves money on effects and Craster's women save themselves :D

@Veltigar

I will answer better later, but I felt I should at least give you an acknowledgement for now, I appreciate the time and typing and effort you took to answer me.

I just got back from quite a succesful exam, so writing that long post helped me clear my mind and relax ;)

Funny that you mention how Rob Roy came out around the time of Braveheart, I do believe that is why I didn't see the film at the time. I remember thinking that as much as I love Liam Neeson that I should probably wait til later to see that film......having done Scotland and history and BATTLE already that year. It is strange that now nothing ruins an old Mel Gibson movie like the fact of......trying to get past the fact it IS Mel Gibson in it. Ughhhhhhhhh.

For some reason I find that his movies haven't aged very well. In part that has to do with his private exploits, but there's something more I think. Perhaps the fact that all his movie always aim for the lowest common denominator has something to do with it?

It's a shame really that Braveheart took the spotlight that year, Rob Roy is a real masterpiece in it's genre imo. And it's still very relevant imo. The fight choreography has sadly never been surpassed.

I would answer better but the hubs is home today, and I'm trying to convince him that I don't spend all of my time on the computer, HA!! Having been a cold war warrior in the Navy for 8 years, he has visited Scotland a few times, and I am now selling him on how we have to watch Rob Roy. His interest in naval history had us rewatching Master and Commander this morning. I think I'm going to try and sell him on us viewing Rob Roy sometime this weekend. I love the hell out of shifty Tim Roth as much as towering, heroic, badass Liam Neeson. One of my favorite movies of his is Michael Collins, loved the hell out that movie. I always would seem to find MC on in the middle of the night, and YES, stay up til the wee hours of the morning watching it.

Just describe the movie to him like this: "Liam Neeson plays Liam Neeson in a skirt. In the movie he fights against Tim Roth, who plays a real murdermonkey". No one can resist that blurb, I know for I fell for it in the time.

ETA: I will definately give all the ideas you posted on The Wall and such a more thorough reading and much thought. I don't have to tell you that it's already better written than some of D&D's dreck, but I will tell you anyway.

Thanks :D But let's face it, that's not really hard ;)

The more I watch this episode the worse it gets.

How half this stuff makes it past writing is mind boggling. I can't imagine George is to happy with some of their adaptions but we'll never hear it from him.

GRRM's reaction to the episode: "[Cries heavily. Takes a rare 10000 dollar bill and wipes his tears away] oh well, at least I'm loaded now".

[JonInVa]

Since folks are still nitpicking (without repercussions? Yeah, right), I'll add a few more minor ones:

1. Scythe coming out of frozen wall means it's been there a long time. How would NW know the length, or judge perfectly on a 700 foot wall that they'd be right on the money with the swing? When you haul it back up, how do you get it back to it's holding spot and reset when the apex of the chain is in the center of the swing radius?

2. No mention of Slynt's hiding from Sam to Jon.

3. Sam was literally covered in Pyp's blood, but his clothes were spotless at the end. Must have a laundromat with same hour service.

4. Every person shot with an arrow (in the body, not Pyp) seems to drop like a stone and die instantly - except Ygritte, who had time to wonder, and speak before drifting off.

5. Why does NW rely on people to hold the rope letting their comrades hang over the side of the wall? Not only does it waste a man who could be fighting, but one slip or injury and there goes the rope along with the brother hanging out there. Tie the rope off! Doy.

[Ingelheim]

The more I watch this episode the worse it gets.

How half this stuff makes it past writing is mind boggling. I can't imagine George is to happy with some of their adaptions but we'll never hear it from him.

Wow, the more I watch this episode the better it gets for me...

Also, Kit Harington has totally nailed it since 4x01.

[sj4iy]

Since folks are still nitpicking (without repercussions? Yeah, right), I'll add a few more minor ones:

1. Scythe coming out of frozen wall means it's been there a long time. How would NW know the length, or judge perfectly on a 700 foot wall that they'd be right on the money with the swing? When you haul it back up, how do you get it back to it's holding spot and reset when the apex of the chain is in the center of the swing radius?

2. No mention of Slynt's hiding from Sam to Jon.

3. Sam was literally covered in Pyp's blood, but his clothes were spotless at the end. Must have a laundromat with same hour service.

4. Every person shot with an arrow (in the body, not Pyp) seems to drop like a stone and die instantly - except Ygritte, who had time to wonder, and speak before drifting off.

5. Why does NW rely on people to hold the rope letting their comrades hang over the side of the wall? Not only does it waste a man who could be fighting, but one slip or injury and there goes the rope along with the brother hanging out there. Tie the rope off! Doy.

1. Just as a thought about the scythe, it wouldn't matter if they were spot on with it or not- the ice and snow from the breakage would knock anyone underneath it off.

2. I think that Slynt's cowardice will still come into play...thinking we might see it as a reason for Sam to blackmail Slynt into dropping out of the choosing for LC.

3. LOL, true.

4. Tormund didn't.

5. True.

[Veltigar]

1. Just as a thought about the scythe, it wouldn't matter if they were spot on with it or not- the ice and snow from the breakage would knock anyone underneath it off.

Why use that scythe though? If they can knock it free from the icy wall, they can just as easily break a part of the Wall of and drop it on the wildlings. Without wasting precious material on the Scythe, not to mention men to haul it back up and re-install it (+ I'm pretty sure that the whole idea of that scythe is bullshit from a physics standpoint as well.)

4. Tormund didn't.

Tormund is a boss fighter though, so he doesn't really count. Why didn't we see anyone getting shot, who was just wounded instead of instantly dieing?

[Ugly Little Girl]

Why use that scythe though? If they can knock it free from the icy wall, they can just as easily break a part of the Wall of and drop it on the wildlings. Without wasting precious material on the Scythe, not to mention men to haul it back up and re-install it (+ I'm pretty sure that the whole idea of that scythe is bullshit from a physics standpoint as well.)

Tormund is a boss fighter though, so he doesn't really count. Why didn't we see anyone getting shot, who was just wounded instead of instantly dieing?

I think the chain part of the sythe is equally as effective as the blade and the debris - so overall it's a devastating weapon.

[sj4iy]

Why use that scythe though? If they can knock it free from the icy wall, they can just as easily break a part of the Wall of and drop it on the wildlings. Without wasting precious material on the Scythe, not to mention men to haul it back up and re-install it (+ I'm pretty sure that the whole idea of that scythe is bullshit from a physics standpoint as well.)

I think the chain part of the sythe is equally as effective as the blade and the debris - so overall it's a devastating weapon.

What this person said. It's actually a greatly effective weapon for a place such as the Wall, as it could take out a large scale siege with ladders and thousands of climbers at once.

Tormund is a boss fighter though, so he doesn't really count. Why didn't we see anyone getting shot, who was just wounded instead of instantly dieing?

Just falling down doesn't constitute dying.

[teemo]

The more I watch this episode the worse it gets.

How half this stuff makes it past writing is mind boggling. I can't imagine George is to happy with some of their adaptions but we'll never hear it from him.

I had the honor to talk to GRRM, his wife, and friend/agent/not sure last year at ConQuest outside the hotel and it was really awesome. But even more interesting was the question that I asked during his Q&A session. I said, "What do you think of the change from Jeyne Westerling to Talisa?" he ended up saying that D&D must have thought that "their character was better." It didn't sound complimentary or welcoming at all to the changes and I loved hearing that.

[roxWolfox]

Quite honestly, I don't think someone with Jeyne Westerlings temperment/character would have had any screen presence. I found her to be a wallflower in the books by the description her, and we already had a 'weak' character in Sansa. Feisty Talisa worked well with Robb, and Oona Chaplin has great acting lineage/cred.

Just my take on the whole thing.

Eta: Concerning the Talisa Maegyr family ties thing (Essos nobility) ... wasn't Maggy (as in Maggy the Frog) a shortened form of Maegyr? I could be wrong, but that stood out for me when she chatted about her childhood for some reason.

Just checked the wiki, and it says that Maggy is likely a bastardized version of Maegi. :P

[Veltigar]

What this person said. It's actually a greatly effective weapon for a place such as the Wall, as it could take out a large scale siege with ladders and thousands of climbers at once.

Yeah, I'm going to call bullshit on that. Firstly, the ice would be way more costefficient. Secondly, if it's such an effective weapon, why aren't there any real life examples of Medieval fortifications using something like this (smaller scale of course) to defend its walls with.

Just falling down doesn't constitute dying.

And yet I didn't see any one of those hit by arrows going down and groan or move back up again. If I don't see anyone get wounded, but they all slump down on the floor, stop making sounds or movement, than they are dead. [And I'm ignoring the massive amount of people who would get hit by arrows, but fight on because the arrow just sticks in their arrow or wounds a non-vital part]

[sj4iy]

Quite honestly, I don't think someone with Jeyne Westerlings temperment/character would have had any screen presence. I found her to be a wallflower in the books by the description her, and we already had a 'weak' character in Sansa. Feisty Talisa worked well with Robb, and Oona Chaplin has great acting lineage/cred.

Just my take on the whole thing.

Eta: Concerning the Talisa Maegyr family ties thing (Essos nobility) ... wasn't Maggy (as in Maggy the Frog) a shortened form of Maegyr? I could be wrong, but that stood out for me when she chatted about her childhood for some reason.

Just checked the wiki, and it says that Maggy is likely a bastardized version of Maegi. :P

Yeah, I wasn't impressed by Jeyne Westerling at all. The show gave her some personality. I have no problem with that. Martin has written some great characters, but he's also written his share of shallow ones, too. Jeyne/Talisa is really important to the plot in both places, so I don't know what was wrong with her character being expanded in the show.

[Veltigar]

Yeah, I wasn't impressed by Jeyne Westerling at all. The show gave her some personality. I have no problem with that.

You honestly think that Talisa has a personality? Good grieves man, she's about as cliche as can be! Not that Jeyne Westerling was any more interesting, I'll give you that, but at least she barely got pagetime.

[roxWolfox]

Well, those Volantis relatives could be sending Faceless Man to tie in with Arya's FM storyline. :shrugs: From where I stand Yara running from some dogs and a half-naked Ramsay/Stannis begging for sex were much more cringe-worthy.

[sj4iy]

Well, those Volantis relatives could be sending Faceless Man to tie in with Arya's FM storyline. :shrugs: From where I stand Yara running from some dogs and a half-naked Ramsay/Stannis begging for sex were much more cringe-worthy.

The non-evacuation of Molestown was probably the most cringeworthy thing for me this season. I mean, NWmen were already there, you'd think they'd say "hey, there are some Wildlings coming this way burning shit. This might be a dangerous place to stay."

Personally, I think Stannis NEEDS to get laid more often XD

[bobbybuilderton]

Yeah, I wasn't impressed by Jeyne Westerling at all. The show gave her some personality. I have no problem with that. Martin has written some great characters, but he's also written his share of shallow ones, too. Jeyne/Talisa is really important to the plot in both places, so I don't know what was wrong with her character being expanded in the show.

Jeyne didn't need much personality, as Robb basically just had sex with her and felt he had to marry her. Of course he's written shallow characters. Not every character can or should be fleshed out. We see what happens when minor characters have pages dedicated to them (AFfC, anyone?).

ETA: they only added more of a personality to Talisa because they CLEARLY thought the whole "forbidden romance between two characters with zero chemistry" angle was better. You can't really sell that with the amount of characterization Jeyne gets. But again, they serve two different purposes so it makes sense.

[boojam]

The non-evacuation of Molestown was probably the most cringeworthy thing for me this season. I mean, NWmen were already there, you'd think they'd say "hey, there are some Wildlings coming this way burning shit. This might be a dangerous place to stay."

Yeah that's in the book , 5 seconds of dialog would have taken care of that.

Not all in Molestown were killed anyway.... but who cares about details like that?

[roxWolfox]

The non-evacuation of Molestown was probably the most cringeworthy thing for me this season. I mean, NWmen were already there, you'd think they'd say "hey, there are some Wildlings coming this way burning shit. This might be a dangerous place to stay."

Personally, I think Stannis NEEDS to get laid more often XD

What!?!

That burp song was the best thing ever! /sarcasm off

As for Stannis getting laid, I agree. He does have a wife who doesn't pop out shadowbabies, though. :P And Littlefinger said it best about laying with a woman and closing your eyes (you all know the line!).

Jeyne didn't need much personality, as Robb basically just had sex with her and felt he had to marry her. Of course he's written shallow characters. Not every character can or should be fleshed out. We see what happens when minor characters have pages dedicated to them (AFfC, anyone?).

ETA: they only added more of a personality to Talisa because they CLEARLY thought the whole "forbidden romance between two characters with zero chemistry" angle was better. You can't really sell that with the amount of characterization Jeyne gets. But again, they serve two different purposes so it makes sense.

Now, I'm not a girl anymore, but after listening to some gals chatting rather descriptively about of what they'd do to Robb Stark given the chance, I'm beginning to think Talisa/Robb fun-time scenes were put in with the young 'uns something to fantasize about. (This does sound better in my head, believe me).

What I'm trying to get at is that the way Jeyne is in the books, any passionate scene would have been weird. Talisa on the other hand, is passionate, making their sex scenes more believable. Hope that makes sense. :P