[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick Without Repercussion

[jarl the climber]

Since folks are still nitpicking (without repercussions? Yeah, right), I'll add a few more minor ones:

1. Scythe coming out of frozen wall means it's been there a long time. How would NW know the length, or judge perfectly on a 700 foot wall that they'd be right on the money with the swing? When you haul it back up, how do you get it back to it's holding spot and reset when the apex of the chain is in the center of the swing radius?

2. No mention of Slynt's hiding from Sam to Jon.

3. Sam was literally covered in Pyp's blood, but his clothes were spotless at the end. Must have a laundromat with same hour service.

4. Every person shot with an arrow (in the body, not Pyp) seems to drop like a stone and die instantly - except Ygritte, who had time to wonder, and speak before drifting off.

5. Why does NW rely on people to hold the rope letting their comrades hang over the side of the wall? Not only does it waste a man who could be fighting, but one slip or injury and there goes the rope along with the brother hanging out there. Tie the rope off! Doy.

1. The scythe was great, there is no bad mouthing of the scythe even if its logical and makes sense.

2. Nobody saw Slynt do anything during the battle, there are like 50-60 guys left alive and none of them saw Slynt do anything, thats something that should get around. There were no secrets at the Wall in the books. This isn't the books but if doesn't I have to agree that it won't make much sense.

3. It was dark the red mixes in with the black once it dries plus Sams a slob who gets gravy and juices all over the front whenever he eats, so it kind of blended in.

4. Some of these guys were cowards and cravens and they figured once they got shot it was a good excuse to lay down and play possum.

5. Because the Watch has to take whatever they can get in terms of manpower, some of the guys they have, thats all they can do, they can hold a rope, tying a knot is a little to tricky for them. The question is why the bowmen they were holding didn't pick off all the climbers, they shot one arrow apiece and then they just stayed there and didn't do anything, they didn't even ask to get pulled back up. So I think that the recruits they have been getting have been of really limited value.

[roxWolfox]

1. The scythe was great, there is no bad mouthing of the scythe even if its logical and makes sense.

2. Nobody saw Slynt do anything during the battle, there are like 50-60 guys left alive and none of them saw Slynt do anything, thats something that should get around. There were no secrets at the Wall in the books. This isn't the books but if doesn't I have to agree that it won't make much sense.

3. It was dark the red mixes in with the black once it dries plus Sams a slob who gets gravy and juices all over the front whenever he eats, so it kind of blended in.

4. Some of these guys were cowards and cravens and they figured once they got shot it was a good excuse to lay down and play possum.

5. Because the Watch has to take whatever they can get in terms of manpower, some of the guys they have, thats all they can do, they can hold a rope, tying a knot is a little to tricky for them. The question is why the bowmen they were holding didn't pick off all the climbers, they shot one arrow apiece and then they just stayed there and didn't do anything, they didn't even ask to get pulled back up. So I think that the recruits they have been getting have been of really limited value.

How could anyone argue with this ... every point makes so much sense! :cheers:

[CarCrashFiance]

GRRM isn't preventing anything anymore. Direct me to the thread where I can commiserate with people who realize one of our favorite authors has given us .70% of the story and is ok with that.

Yeah, I don't think GRRM is preventing anything. He's said numerous times that he has no creative control over the series at all. If he wanted to kill off Pyp and Grenn, they'd be dead.

We know that GRRM hasn't been in control since the very first episode. In season one D&D killed off Marillion and Rakharo. We've also seen that every episode GRRM has written has had scenes cut from it so more of D&D's scenes can be added. Now we are at the point where D&D are writing, producing, and directing almost every episode. When they have zero talent as writers. David "amnesia bullets" Benioff was responsible for Wolverine: Origins. So the show has noticably declined in its writing quality and consistency.

The show borders on fan fiction at this point. Pointlessly changing characters' names and ethnicities (Talisa? Yara? Salladhor and Xaro Xhoan Daxos being black?). Introducing multiple romantic subplots with no consequence (Tyrio and Shae? Grey Worm and Missandei?). Bombarding the viewer with time consuming sex scenes to fill the nudity quota at expense of character and plot depth (Loras, Renly, Ros, Melisandre, Ros, Pycelle, Ros, Theon). Comically absurd action sequences (man falls 700 feet from top of wall after being shot with a giant's arrow.....and his body lands PERFECTLY in the ground with no splat). Meandering plots (Bran at Crasters? Melisandre and Gendry? Talisa? Jaime raping Cersei? WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS?!!?!). Five dollar budget battle sequences (Tyrion gets hit in the head with a hammer, Here's some sounds on a black screen as The Others battle The Watch). Unbelievably awful dialog (Littlefinger's soliloquy of his life to Ros, Tyrion's ridiculous dung beetle speech). Advanced knowledge spoilers (Joffrey sent Ser Mandon, The Night's King, Dany in a frozen King's Landing). Why are they spoiling information from books six and seven?

I don't see how this show qualifies as a straight adaption at all.

It's more of a reboot. This is how Hollywood reboots their comic franchises. They take the basic premise of the previous franchise and then add in lots of sex appeal and keep the cast young and good looking. Every decade Spiderman gets younger and younger. The plot gets simpler and less complicated. They make the plot as easy as possible to understand. You can read ASOIAF dozens of times and miss many small details. You'd be hard-pressed to miss the main purpose of each episode of the show. This show is almost as if it is based on a rebooted version of the books. And not the original source material.

I think GRRM was overwhelmed. He saw HBO making shows like Band of Brothers and The Sopranos and was suckered into thinking that his show would be taken seriously. Instead he's getting the same treatment that shows like Rome and Deadwood got. But instead of beign disrespected by being canceled they just churn out subpar seasons and go in with enormous marketing campaigns. Ensuring huge viewership but a decline in artistic quality. The show is nothing more than a cash cow and a development vehicle for HBO executives and their friends. Work on Game of Thrones and you might parlay that into being the head writer for the Magic the Gathering Movie. The show is a plaything for powerful televison executives.

At this point there's nothing that GRRM can do but either lie about or downplay his disappointment in the direction of the show. I would estimate he's happy at seeing his characters mostly faithfully portrayed on a screen with live actors, sets, and costumes. But I can't possibly fathom how he would be at all impressed with the writing and narrative of the show. If people are cringing at D&D's horrid dialog I can't imagine what GRRM feels when a character utters such uninspired streams of verbal mediocrity. When the show is at the point where he has to make excuses to comment on storytelling failures like Jaime raping Cersei then the show ceases to be an adaptation and is something much different. But GRRM can't say "the rape change bothered me so I felt it was necessary to comment on it". He needs the convenient reason of "the fans kept asking so I felt compelled to answer, to move on from the subject".

If HBO were less money hungry they'd take the show off air for one year and let GRRM and D&D regroup. The Wire and The Sopranos, far superior shows, took years off. Mad Men just came back from a year off AND split its last season. They need to take a breather and reasses what the true purpsoe of this show really is. Is it a serious artistic piece or a rushed year-to-year adaptation to sell cable boxes?

[Justin Danford]

Bad pacing.

The series should have introduced the Wall under Mances siege as early as episode 6 or 7. Instead of the Sam and Ygritte Molestown run-around or Greyworm Fanfic, we should have been checking in on a battered Nights Watch, facing waves of Mances attack.

We could have gotten "The wall is yours, Lord Snow," a more sustained (and thus believable) growth as Jon as a commander (seemed to me Thorne was one heroic dude in Ep.9), and a more meaningful Ep.9

Imagine if Ep.9 began on the premise of the NW down on their last straw, tired and nearly beaten...and then Mance full presses from the North while Tormund attacks from the South. How much more heroic would Jon/Gren/Sam have been. How much more meaningful? And with all that extra time saved from sam/yrgitte/greyworm the episode can finallly end as it should have:

Jon treats with Mance. Stannis cliffhanger to save the day...

[swordswallower]

What I meant was that if Pyp and Grenn we're going to be instrumental in the last two (?) books, GRRM would've tipped D&D off - we know they have insider knowledge on that score. But of course, even if Grenn was going to turn out to be a great hero in WOW, They'll probably switch it to Edd

[Miodrag]

In ASOIAF we study people. We see how their actions effect others. We don't see how their actions are carried out in great detail. We don't study institutions in depth. We view them in relation to individuals. Whereas in The Wire almost every character is defined by their relationship to their institution, they are their role.

This is where I partially disagree. We do study people in ASOIAF, as you say, but it goes further, because majority of those people occupy prominent positions in the society. Their actions have serious consequences for the entire realms. Then there are people who find themselves in dire straits because their loyalty to the order/institution they belong to is challenged. Loyalty is one of the main themes of ASOIAF, and most of the characters are in one way or another forced to choose will they follow what they think is right or what written/unwritten rules command. Jaime's "so many vows" monologue is the essential dilemma every public official is facing at some point: what to honor, yourself or your position? And his choice had consequences not only for himself, but for the entire society as well. And he's still haunted for the choice he made. And we have an opposite example in Barristan, who always chooses an institution over himself, and yet, in ADWD we see his mind was never completely in peace with his decisions. There's also Aemon, and basically the entire Night's Watch, whose loyalty to the institution they serve is continually questioned. And there are institutions like the City Watch that aren't in focus too much, but we still find out great deal about them: in AGOT/ACOK, games played around and the corruption of the City Watch are among the crucial aspects of the fight for power, but the City Watch itself is not a one-dimensional entity; on the contrary, it's purpose and efficiency and rules and internal logic are all depicted.

While we might meet a wider range of institutions in ASOIAF, do we study any of them as closely as we do drug-dealing organizations or the police in The Wire? What do we actually know about how the Iron Bank functions?

As much as about people, ASOIAF is about the societies and cultures those people are part of. I don't think it'd be possible any other way. When a writer ignores the importance the culture bears for the characters, it always ends up with abominations like Talisa. In a contemporary drama, the culture and society don't have to be described in details, because we all know what police is or should be, and what the prime minister/secretary of state is or should be. When writing about a fictional world, the writer has to create a realistic, believable culture, and a realistic, believable society that stems from the said culture. Unfortunately, many writers fail to do that properly. GRRM is among the rare exceptions. I'd say he's second to none in that regard. And institutions are an integral part of the societies he created. His institutions are rawer, more primitive then modern ones, but in essence - because of the human aspect - they are not unlike our institutions. On the contrary, they're more similar to modern institutions than not. The City Watch can stand for police. Night's Watch can stand for a military service. Kingsguard can stand for secret service. And all of those institutions, along with various governments and other forms of authority (religions), are seen up-close. There are entities like Iron Bank that are at the outskirts (at least for now), but even in that case we see their reasoning and logic.

We absolutely see institutions being pushed to their edge on The Wire. The Hamsterdam and the New Day Co-op plots were entirely about individuals(Colvin and Bell, respectivally) trying to change institutions from within.

Colvin did try to change the way things function, but his attempt didn't endanger the institution of police. Bell is a somewhat different case in that regard, because he tried to create a new institution in New Day Co-op (an unofficial institution, but still), and payed dearly for it. While both plots are brilliant and smartly interwoven, I was talking about the challenge the Night's Watch is facing like all the time - either because of neglect, or because of physical threat, they're fighting for the bare existence. The only institution in The Wire that is challenged in its very core and fighting for the bare existence is the unions in season 2, of which I forgot the last time.

I absolutely love both series as well, I just don't find them comparable in the slightest. The Wire is a very much a narrative driven story with enthralling characters; ASOIAF is a character driven story with an enthralling narrative. For example; David Simon stated that despite Stringer Bell being an incredibly popular character, he had to die because to let him live would have served character, not story. GRRM himself has stated(iirc) that his characters drive his plot. Many here actually(wrongly imo) complain that Martin has lost control of the plot because of how he favors character over story.

I think they're very comparable, even though they are vastly different - but, different things can also be compared, especially if their respective foundations are similar, or perhaps identical even. And both ASOIAF and The Wire are brilliant in depicting the culture. Those institutions from The Wire would mean nothing if not for the people that represent them. That's why Simon and co. had to invent so many memorable characters, and they did. Martin also goes well beyond pure characters. Yes, his characters are brilliantly complex, but if the story was only about them, it wouldn't be as good as it is. I know many think ASOIAF is just a character study, but there I there I very much disagree. Characters carry the narrative and readers usually associate closely with them to the point of becoming genuine fans of this character or that one, but there's so much more to this story than just characters. Just look at Drogo and how similar his story is to Bell's: Drogo too wanted to change things in a way that he wanted for his people to do something they've never done before (sailing), but he also wanted to stay the same, to preserve everything Dothraki stand for (war and plundering) - and at the end, he couldn't have it both ways.

Not you, but many character-obsessed readers do complain about "Martin loosing control of the plot lately", however, I don't think that's the case at all. Just look at Slaver's Bay arc. It's not only about Dany, but also about what it really takes to truly end an oppression. It's about the oppressed and the oppressors, as much as it is about Dany. Looking through those lenses, Slaver's Bay is among the most favorite parts of ASOIAF for me. Jon's ADWD arc is also amazing in that regard, because it's not only about him and his leadership abilities, but also about the people (wildlings) who accepted to lose some liberty in order to gain some security. AFFC is as much about the ancient question of the cost of victory as it is about Jaime and Cersei as characters. I happen to think the first three books are also about bigger ideas and ideals, but, because of the crazy rich plot in those books, it was perhaps harder to notice that. But, after AFFC and especially ADWD, I think it's obvious ASOIAF is much more than a character study it's usually perceived as: it is about the ideas and ideals that hold any society together.

Martin's characters are as memorable precisely because they're the products of their culture and because they stand for those ideals and ideas (or against them), and they operate through the various institutions the society created. The Wire is about institutions in a modern society, but those institutions are so vivid and realistic precisely because they're represented by well rounded characters and ideals behind the institutions (ideals that are, sadly, so often ignored completely). That's why I find them so comparable, even though they're also vastly different. And here are some character parallels, I'd like to know what you and everyone else who watched and loved The Wire think about it:

(yeah, SPOILER ALERT: if you didn't watch The Wire, best skip this part)

Robert = Avon (a king well past his prime, but doesn't know it). Ned = Frank Sobotka (fighting a battle he didn't want and only accepted it for the greater good, but the battle was rigged and he didn't know; too honest for his own good - even though Ned is infinitely more honorable than Frank, what Frank did was not too dishonest, he wasn't OK with those bodies or with heroin). Sandor = Omar (slave to no institution, his own code is the most important thing for him - I guess D&D also found some similarity there, which is why they foolishly borrowed Omar's "a man must have a code" line for Sandor). Tyrion = McNulty (unconventional intelligence too often trapped in a conventional environment, and a lot of explosive results come from it). Theon = Prez (thorn between his family and his other "family"). Ramsay = Marlo (this is self-explanatory, probably).

Of course, I'm not saying they're identical character, by no means, because they are rich enough to be very different, but there is some similarity that, in a way, hopefully speaks about what I want to convey in this post: that characters in ASOIAF are as important because of the importance they have for the universe they exist in, just like the institutions depicted in The Wire are as vivid because of the characters they're represented through.

By the way, perhaps it'd be good idea to open a separate thread for this discussion. I mean, this one is probably going to be closed soon.

[Blockfetcher]

What annoys me most is how poor the writing has fallen from season 1. People keep saying that the original scenes have the worst writing and the ones straight from the book are the best. But just look at season 1, the scene between tywin and jaime, cersei and robert or season 2 arya and tywin. They have the potential to write really really good original scenes but this season I find myself rolling my eyes at most of the dialogue especially in this episode. It's definitely lost some of its magic maybe because they know how popular the show is now and so they can get away with lower quality writing.

Not only that, but they mess with conversations in the book that really don't need to be messed with. The last conversation between ygritte and jon was much better in the books and there was no reason why they couldn't have just used the same conversation in the book. It makes no sense!

[Mirante]

Hello All

This is my first post... I've been visiting here for a few years but the last episode got me finally signing up! Thanks for all the fascinating, geeky discussions.

I use the audio book of ASOIAF as an insomnia remedy (really) .... not because its boring, but because it does get me out of my head and fast asleep... but I've had ample time to absorb the original material, and I really protest what happened the last episode, lol....

So as my first post... sorry to be a hater.. but the tv show Game of Thrones turned such a powerful and intricately designed battle and sequence of events on the wall into mush...

I don't disagree with all Weiss and Benioff are up to and think generally they're doing a great job! But the book chapters with the Wall battle was extremely taut and powerful, one of the most intense and important sequences before book 4 where IMO GRRM royally looses the plot for 1000 pages.

In the book, its not about Sam, ffs... in the book, Jon is sick and wounded... a real endurance test... hes pouring burning oil down trap doors and firing arrows into the dark with only a young male prostitute to help! After the stairs are destroyed, using strategy to defeat the wildlings (who are not 'cannibal psycho's like they are in the show) , he has his time commandeering the wall, stepping into true leadership. Then there are dynamics that push him to negotiate with Mance, on what is a suicide mission, not just some voluntary brainwave that he thinks me may be able to pull off.

In the show... I feel Ygrittes death was handled well... I am fond of the actress and her character, but it was in the midst of a battle, rather than at the end. So he spends minutes lamenting whilst the battle rages around him. WTF? Thats an abandonment of his men into self absorbed grief, and a death wish. This is one example of illogical and poor pacing - along with the odd inaction of the Knights Watch whilst the giants are destroying the tunnel gate. And ok this anchor released from the wall was fun, a good special effect, but ludicrous overkill for a few climbers! Was the budget well allocated... hhrrmmfph. Yea I know its ludicrous to complain and I am not a television director.

Some action on the wall was really well done, and I like Alliser Thorne as a point of antagonism... and Tormund is wild. But WHY was more character development given to Sam and Gilly than Jon himself? I mean, I suppose Sam is a point of sympathy, but stretch the character and his preoccupation with Gilly too far, and it becomes really irritating, especially when its replacing really amazing, lean writing from GRRM.

I'm only moaning because I love the material so much and would encourage anyone who likes the show to check out book three as an audio book so they can experience the story arc on the wall as GRRM intended. It also makes me feel, gradually, that this is not the definitive Game of Thrones adaption. Perhaps in a decade or two it will be treated again, interpreted in a different way, and the story arc on the wall, one of the most important, will be honored better.

[Veltigar]

@Veltigar I bet you rocked those exams......glad I could help you unwind from them. I'll never be able to answer well, til after the hubs is out of my hair, and until I stop the self water boarding type torture of reading finale spec., LOL I surrender for now, and well......I'm just waiting to see how the finale comes out in the wash. I'm sure I'll enjoy some of it, and I'm sure......I'll enjoy nitpicking some of it, too. ;)

Oh well, let's see if I can actually persuse some of this thread more thoroughly, along with some of the specific replies that I myself received. Surely, there is more nitpicking to be enjoyed around here. :fencing:

I wonder if we'll get passed 50 pages with episode 10's thread :D We're close now, but we won't make it :(

What a brilliant idea! :cheers:

Thanks :D

snip

Welcome to the initiated :D Be prepared to catch a lot of flack from people in other threads when you point out the huge flaws in D&D's fan fiction.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I wonder if we'll get passed 50 pages with episode 10's thread :D We're close now, but we won't make it :(

I'll have you know, I am extremely proud of myself for curtailing my love of babble. I could have had this thread up to 50, easy. ;)

I do highly suspect that the next thread will be prolific, my daughter is already giving side eye to the notion of Brienne and The Hound even encountering each other, and I'm a 'show hater' compared to her. That's just for starters, Brienne and The Hound, but I suspect there will be some serious nitpick potential. If she's already willing to admit that something like the two of them encountering and fighting each other is stupid, I doubt 50 and over will be a problem.

I'm sure by the time next season starts, I'll make peace with more of my nitpicks this past season, but I'll also hit the ceiling even higher on some things, such as all the Oberyn we should have had........talking about Elia and HIS mother (yeah, his dad took them to Casterly Rock, insert eye roll here) and the Lannisters and Rhaegar and marriages. But hey, we did see him in bed with almost every whore in THE brothel, so really, why complain? :P

I can't wait to see everyone on the other side of this episode. I'm sure I'll enjoy lots of it. IF LS should show up, I'm curious to see what she will look like. Less than 5 hours wait here. See ya all soon.

[roxWolfox]

I can't wait to see everyone on the other side of this episode. I'm sure I'll enjoy lots of it. IF LS should show up, I'm curious to see what she will look like. Less than 5 hours wait here. See ya all soon.

I'm actually looking forward to the reactions tonight. I used to get all my chuckes from WiCs twitter recap on Wednesday mornings, 'til I started going through (the very, very long) threads here. I'm baking cookies as I type for the occasion! :lol:

[sj4iy]

I'm actually looking forward to the reactions tonight. I used to get all my chuckes from WiCs twitter recap on Wednesday mornings, 'til I started going through (the very, very long) threads here. I'm baking cookies as I type for the occasion! :lol:

We always make snacks (mozzarella sticks, egg rolls, etc), turn off all the lights and turn off all appliances. It's basically my date night with my husband, so we make a big deal out of it.

I catch up on the reactions the next day for the fun of it.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I'm actually looking forward to the reactions tonight. I used to get all my chuckes from WiCs twitter recap on Wednesday mornings, 'til I started going through (the very, very long) threads here. I'm baking cookies as I type for the occasion! :lol:

I can't post and watch at the same time, I don't like to be distracted when I watch. I pop in after the show and/or the next morning. And, I do it for both......to talk about the things I liked or loved and of course, to pick the worthy nits. One never knows how it turns out in the wash, but it's usually interesting. :cool4:

We're getting ready to grill serious steaks for Father's Day, but I have lots of goodies for 9 and on. I suspect I will be around right after the show.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

We always make snacks (mozzarella sticks, egg rolls, etc), turn off all the lights and turn off all appliances. It's basically my date night with my husband, so we make a big deal out of it.

I catch up on the reactions the next day for the fun of it.

It's basically mother, daughter night in my house, and the hubby runs for cover in the bedroom. It's nice to have her to share it with, she loves both the books and the show, but I can't seem to get her to over geek out with her embarrassing mother.

[roxWolfox]

Alas, hubs is on midnights and working tonight. :P

And I can't watch and twitter/read commentary at the same time either! I'm truly impressed by those who can!

I was so amused at the excited commentary last week until about 9:48 on when the snark started (no Stannis!) then it went all downhill from there.

Reading 80+ pages of angry posts is what I do to amuse myself when hubs is sleeping during the day, or at work in my attempts to keep the bird quiet. Her favourite activity is jumping up and down on the keyboard whilst I type ... which is far easier to deal with than the foghorn screams she emits when the tv/radio is on. :P

And Happy Father's Day to all!

[The Kinkslayer]

My only nitpick is that Jon is out to kill Mance... with no sword.

[Fat Trell]

Snip

I would absolutely adore a thread comparing and contrasting ASOIAF and The Wire as works.

Though I would still contend The Wire is a deeper study of institutions, I admit I hadn't looked at certain characters as representitives of their respective institutions. Your post has made me reevaluate some things.

I really like the Avon-Robert comparison btw. Both very martial men who value strength and are often misread as being stupid. Very patriarchical characters. Being relived to know future enemies, even toddlers, had been killed by others so he would not have to dirty his hands is the exact reaction Avon would have had in Robert's place.

Comparing Ramsay to Marlo is a bit degrading to Marlo though don't you think? Marlo was a ruthless man who killed for practically any reason but he never struck me as anywhere near the sadist that Ramsay is. Much more of a Tywin imo.

[Miodrag]

Comparing Ramsay to Marlo is a bit degrading to Marlo though don't you think? Marlo was a ruthless man who killed for practically any reason but he never struck me as anywhere near the sadist that Ramsay is. Much more of a Tywin imo.

Yeah, it wasn't precise enough. What I meant is that both Ramsay and Marlo represent a degeneration. Ramsay is obviously Roose writ more sadistic, while in season 3 of The Wire, in which Marlo debuts, the theme of things becoming generally worse is a prominent one. I'd say his war with Avon is also about that. Like, it's a very common point that everything's becoming worse with each new generation, and it's almost always bullshit, but sometimes perhaps it's true.

About institutions, just to make myself clear: institutions are the main focus in The Wire, while in ASOIAF they're certainly aren't, so you're obviously right that they're dealt with in more details in The Wire than in ASOIAF. Not to mention that modern institutions are more complicated than medieval ones were. So if it looked like I'm denying that, sorry, my bad. But, institutions are an integral part of ASOIAF too, especially for the theme I recognize as the main one of Martin's saga, and that is the role of individualism in a society/culture that depends so much on various forms of collectivism. That is why GRRM had to create societies/cultures that are as believable as they actually are, and institutions, though not the main focus, are an integral parts of those societies. Because of the historical period he modeled his universe on, he had the opportunity to explore societies - and institutions - in their very cores. And in my eyes, he did it brilliantly, because he never lost the basic human perspective, as a lesser writer possibly would. That is why watching The Wire doesn't necessarily helps me with understanding institutions or societies or cultures in ASOIAF, while reading ASOIAF probably may help me - only to a certain extent, of course - in understanding a society in its roots, be it a modern urban society depicted in The Wire, or some other society.

[sj4iy]

It's basically mother, daughter night in my house, and the hubby runs for cover in the bedroom. It's nice to have her to share it with, she loves both the books and the show, but I can't seem to get her to over geek out with her embarrassing mother.

My daughter is 5, so we have to watch lighter fate together :) We did watch "How to Train Your Dragon 2", which has dragons and Kit Harington- does that count? XD