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teemo

[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick Without Repercussion

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This episode was basically a watered down action film with alot of 4th tier characters, and only two people we really enjoy the Point of view from.



Jon Snow: it felt like he was much more important in the book. the reason why is because in the books he returns to castle black fresh off an injury and is barely healed when he has to hold the castle from attack. He wasnt surrounded by commanders from my recollection. This adaptation just sort of took far too long in the series to happen, and our complacency with the storyline is now significant.


Jon Snow's character is supposed to really be the focus of this by showing too many of the different points of view it becomes hard to know what your supposed to care about.



Sam: I actually like sam and gilly, and especially was happy when sam dropped an F bomb. that was cool. I was hoping sam would have played a more heroic role somewhere, maybe him killing ygritte, or him killing the Thenn instead of Jon perhaps with a dragonglass spear again which would have been amusing to see how it would look killing a normal enemy.



The people I dont care about: Tormund, random owl guy, dude who dies in tunnell, dude who got arrow thru the neck, cannibal dbag #1,2,3, janos slynt (thank god he dies eventually), Alliser.



The people I do care about: Stannis, Mance, Jon Snow, Sam, Davos, Aemon, Ygritte, Ghost,



Jon should have probably met mance, and stannis arrives, but that would make it like a movie, possibly 66 minutes or more. and clearly they want the finale to be the "GRAND RESOLUTION" for:



the wall, jon and mance, stannis, arya ditching hound, tyrion/tywin/shae, bran children of forest, dany's dragons, Lady Stoneheart is looking more and more unlikely in 66 minutes,




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lol what? Grenn and Pyp do pretty much nothing in the books. Most of his meaningful interactions are with Sam and other high ranking members of the watch, wildlings, Stannis, etc.

Book-wise it doesn't matter much. Show-wise it does. They did a lot in the show when it comes to the NW.

Tho, their deaths will most likely not have an effect on Jon's progression, but it won't be as fun and interesting to watch.

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It was such a little thing, but when Tormund is supposedly being dragged up the staircase by the NW guys to be put in chains, you can clearly see the actor climbing the steps backwards. Now, Tormund's actor is a big guy, so it would be a tall order for two men to drag him up the steps like a sack of potatoes without him helping them, but the visual effect was a little ridiculous, as he was readily climbing the steps even as he was cursing Jon Snow.

Overall, the episode felt too much like Blackwater Part Deux. If Stannis had shown up at the end to save them just as Tywin and the Tyrell forces did in Blackwater, it would have put the comparison over the top.

Tormund was on a berzerker rage. It would have been great to see how they subdued him.

Anyone have a death count for NW members? 102 NW to start off this episode I could have sworn Tormund himself killed 100+ NW lol

The flow up to the end seemed pretty bleak if you were Unsullied. They should have shown Ghost changing the tide of battle and that would have made more sense...

Jon could have been holding Ygritte in his arms with Ghost pouncing on every Wilding around them

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Yeah, Jon sends them away to other castles in aDwD anyway so it's not like they're featured a lot. Still :bawl:

Yeah I couldn't remember them doing anything at all in the books that means they have to survive.

Grenn going out like a beast was awesome. pyp dying was a bit sad. dude gets that minor W then that major L right after.

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Book-wise it doesn't matter much. Show-wise it does. They did a lot in the show when it comes to the NW.

Tho, their deaths will most likely not have an affect on Jon's progression, but it won't be as fun and interesting to watch.

As much as I am in mourning for the loss of Grenn and Pyp from the show, they basically did disappear from the books ... so this is probably the best way for them to go for non-book-readers.

Saddest scenes of the entire episode for me. :(

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I just remember... Mance was in the episode???? Because he's like.. important, right?



Maybe because HBO has done such a great job with mance... is that I didn't even remember if he was there.


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My one nitpick is i would have changed the way Ygritte and Jon met, mostly the holding of Ygritte after she died. There was still a battle going on and that's a good way to catch a axeto head.

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I feel like just posting a link to Angry Got Fan's twitter, because those would pretty much be my nitpicks.



No, but seriously ...



If I'm throwing out the whole Stanis not showing up at all (and the fact that the siege should have been started several episodes ago so this episode could have had a proper ending) I would say my biggest nitpick is that the episode built up "the calm before the storm" way too much.



Oh. And the fact that Grenn ad Pyp and about fifty other members of the already paltry Night's Watch died and now I really don't know who is left to defend it, even with Stanis's army coming soon.



I don't think I've ever nitpicked an episode this much. I really had such high hopes.


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This was definitely a "Jon Snow" episode - not surprisingly. These directors know the Ending so I think this episode is a definite "tell" from GRRM about his vision of these characters. If you look at it, this is very "Danarys Targarean"-esqe depiction of how one comes to rise to power to rule. Her story had a similar treatment from the TV series...



The most memorable scene for me was when he ordered Grenn, pretty much, to his death at the Gate. Jon "knew" what he was telling Grenn to do, Grenn "knew" what was going to happen but he did so without question. Jon's reaction to seeing Grenn at the end was very important IMO because that is what leaders/rulers should feel when their friends/comrades/subjects/whatevers die. The exact thing that Stannis does not which is why I am kind of glad he didn't take the glory away from Jon this episode a la Tywin/Tyrion at Blackwater.


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As much as I am in mourning for the loss of Grenn and Pyp from the show, they basically did disappear from the books ... so this is probably the best way for them to go for non-book-readers.

Saddest scenes of the entire episode for me. :(

Oh, I definitely agree. Giving them badass deaths was a great choice, especially if they were already planing on lowering their screen-time and what-not.

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I just remember... Mance was in the episode???? Because he's like.. important, right?

Maybe because HBO has done such a great job with mance... is that I didn't even remember if he was there.

Yeah, it would've been cool to see them switching back and forth between Mance giving commands to the wildlings and Jon/Alliser giving commands to the NW. The way this show has treated army leaders though, I'm just happy that Mance wasn't the first dude at the base of the wall with an icepick going "COME TAKE THIS FUCKING WALL WITH ME!!!!"

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Tormund was on a berzerker rage. It would have been great to see how they subdued him.

Anyone have a death count for NW members? 102 NW to start off this episode I could have sworn Tormund himself killed 100+ NW lol

The flow up to the end seemed pretty bleak if you were Unsullied. They should have shown Ghost changing the tide of battle and that would have made more sense...

Jon could have been holding Ygritte in his arms with Ghost pouncing on every Wilding around them

Or even better, and I was hoping it might happen..but when Ygritte is just standing there with the arrow notched at Jon, Ghost just comes charging at her from the side and tears her apart right in front of Jon.

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Based off my facebook newsfeed, seems like every unsullied I know LOVED this episode.

"Best episode of Game of Thrones yet, tbh" is one status.

Ugh. Someone needs to invent a timemachine and go back in time and shoot hitler D&D.

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Also The AV Club's "Game of Thrones (Newbies)" just gave this episode an A- and the "Game of Thrones (Experts)" just gave this episode a B+.

What the flying fuck. The Newbies review, maybe I get that, but the Experts(aka bookreader) review too? What the hell.

Edit to add: Although one of my unsullied friends also posted "Yay Ingrid's finally dead." Lol @ three seasons of a character, and people still don't know their name.

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Also The AV Club's "Game of Thrones (Newbies)" just gave this episode an A- and the "Game of Thrones (Experts)" just gave this episode a B+.

What the flying fuck. The Newbies review, maybe I get that, but the Experts(aka bookreader) review too? What the hell.

Edit to add: Although one of my unsullied friends also posted "Yay Ingrid's finally dead." Lol @ three seasons of a character, and people still don't know their name.

It's no different than when BOOK READERS still spell Cersei Cercei, or Ramsay like "Ramsey"

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There's a difference between forgetting how a character's name is spelled by one letter, and thinking someone's name is completely different than it actually is.

I met someone once who actually thought Asha/Yara was named "Arya Greyjoy" because of how similar Yara and Arya are in the way they're pronounced in the show. Whoops.

Silly things that make me cringe.

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It's no different than when BOOK READERS still spell Cersei Cercei, or Ramsay like "Ramsey"

LOL, that's me alright. And I've read the books several times.

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