Varys's Backstory: What Are the Readers Expected to Believe?

[Lost Melnibonean]

When we first meet Varys in Catelyn IV, Game, the George suggests to us that Varys is what we learn later to be called a dragonseed...

Only the blood of the dragon would ever know the secrets of the fortress the Dragonlords had built, he vowed.

...

The man who stepped through the door was plump, perfumed, powdered, and as hairless as an egg.

Catelyn IV, Game

Catelyn's musing about only the blood of the dragon knowing the secrets of the Red Keep was echoed in Tyrion X, Clash...

"A secret access? To my chambers?" Tyrion was more annoyed than surprised. Why else would Maegor the Cruel have ordered death for all the builders who had worked on his castle, except to preserve such secrets? "Yes, I suppose there would be. Where will I find the door? In my solar? My bedchamber?"

"My friend, you would not force me to reveal all my little secrets, would you?"

Tyrion X, Clash

The hairless as an egg line would allude to how Egg disguised himself at least through the Second Blackfyre Rebellion. And, as discussed in other threads, the egg seems to be a metaphor for Targaryens being revealed. Unfortunately, we haven't learned the color of his eyes, but Eddard tells us he smells like lilacs...

Ned filled two cups with summerwine and handed one to Varys. "I might have passed within a foot of you and never recognized you," he said, incredulous. He had never seen the eunuch dress in anything but silk and velvet and the richest damasks, and this man smelled of sweat instead of lilacs.

Eddard IV, Game

Perhaps he's a Blackfyre as most members of this forum appear to believe, or maybe he's a Brightflame of legitimate or illegitimate descent (Aerion was exiled for a time in Lys), or maybe he's just a seed from untraceable descent, but it seems clear that he has the blood of the dragon.

Pycelle advised Eddard that Varys was born a slave in Lys...

"The Lord Varys was born a slave in Lys, did you know?

Eddard V, Game

In Tyrion X, Clash we learn a little more of Varys's origins...

"My lord, you once asked me how it was that I was cut."

"I recall," said Tyrion. "You did not want to talk of it."

"Nor do I, but . . . " This pause was longer than the one before, and when Varys spoke again his voice was different somehow. "I was an orphan boy apprenticed to a traveling folly. Our master owned a fat little cog and we sailed up and down the narrow sea performing in all the Free Cities and from time to time in Oldtown and King's Landing.

"One day at Myr, a certain man came to our folly. After the performance, he made an offer for me that my master found too tempting to refuse. I was in terror. I feared the man meant to use me as I had heard men used small boys, but in truth the only part of me he had need of was my manhood. He gave me a potion that made me powerless to move or speak, yet did nothing to dull my senses. With a long hooked blade, he sliced me root and stem, chanting all the while. I watched him burn my manly parts on a brazier. The flames turned blue, and I heard a voice answer his call, though I did not understand the words they spoke.

"The mummers had sailed by the time he was done with me. Once I had served his purpose, the man had no further interest in me, so he put me out. When I asked him what I should do now, he answered that he supposed I should die. To spite him, I resolved to live. I begged, I stole, and I sold what parts of my body still remained to me. Soon I was as good a thief as any in Myr, and when I was older I learned that often the contents of a man's letters are more valuable than the contents of his purse."

Tyrion X, Clash

We get the rest of the story, through his early succes with Illyrio, in Tyrion II, Dance...

"Varys came from Myr."

"So he did. I met him not long after he arrived, one step ahead of the slavers. By day he slept in the sewers, by night he prowled the rooftops like a cat. I was near as poor, a bravo in soiled silks, living by my blade. Perhaps you chanced to glimpse the statue by my pool? Pytho Malanon carved that when I was six-and-ten. A lovely thing, though now I weep to see it."

"Age makes ruins of us all. I am still in mourning for my nose. But Varys "

"In Myr he was a prince of thieves, until a rival thief informed on him. In Pentos his accent marked him, and once he was known for a eunuch he was despised and beaten. Why he chose me to protect him I may never know, but we came to an arrangement. Varys spied on lesser thieves and took their takings. I offered my help to their victims, promising to recover their valuables for a fee. Soon every man who had suffered a loss knew to come to me, whilst city's footpads and cutpurses sought out Varys half to slit his throat, the other half to sell him what they'd stolen. We both grew rich, and richer still when Varys trained his mice."

"In King's Landing he kept little birds."

"Mice, we called them then. The older thieves were fools who thought no further than turning a night's plunder into wine. Varys preferred orphan boys and young girls. He chose the smallest, the ones who were quick and quiet, and taught them to climb walls and slip down chimneys. He taught them to read as well. We left the gold and gems for common thieves. Instead our mice stole letters, ledgers, charts later, they would read them and leave them where they lay. Secrets are worth more than silver or sapphires, Varys claimed. Just so. I grew so respectable that a cousin of the Prince of Pentos let me wed his maiden daughter, whilst whispers of a certain eunuch's talents crossed the narrow sea and reached the ears of a certain king. A very anxious king, who did not wholly trust his son, nor his wife, nor his Hand, a friend of his youth who had grown arrogant and overproud. I do believe that you know the rest of this tale, is that not so?"

Tyrion II, Dance

We are dealt an inconsistency right away. Was Varys a slave sold to a traveling folly or an orphan apprenticed to a traveling folly? Either the mummers paid to take him or they were paid to take him. If you believe Varys was a legitimate Blackfyre or the legitimate son of Aerion's son, the second scenario as related by Varys makes sense. But if he were a legitimate apprentice would he have been sold to the wizard in Myr? That latter event suggests Varys was chattle and that the mummers had bought him.

So, what should the reader be expected to believe?

1) Does Varys have the blood of the dragon?

2) Was Varys born into slavery in Lys?

3) Did a wzard whack off his member in Myr?

4) Did he rise to become a successful thief in Myr?

5) Was he forced out of Myr by a rival?

6) Did he have trouble getting started in Pentos?

7) Did Varys seek out Illyrio for "protection"?

8) Was Illyrio just a poor bravo when they met?

I'm sure we'll get the next phase of the backstory in Winds. I'm really curios to learn how Varys was "recruited" by Aerys.

[coil]

1) Does Varys have the blood of the dragon?

2) Was Varys born into slavery in Lys?

3) Did a wzard whack off his member in Myr?

4) Did he rise to become a successful thief in Myr?

5) Was he forced out of Myr by a rival?

6) Did he have trouble getting started in Pentos?

7) Did Varys seek out Illyrio for "protection"?

8) Was Illyrio just a poor bravo when they met?

I'm sure we'll get the next phase of the backstory in Dance. I'm really curios to learn how Varys was "recruited" by Aerys.

1 Don't remember who, but someone in AGoT states that after Aegon ordered the Red Keep to be built and everything was completed under Maegor the Cruel, Maegor ordered the execution of whoever partecipated in the works stating something among the lines of "only the blood of the dragon will know the secrets".

My apologies for not quoting the exact text... if the words are true however, since the Baratheon dinasty doesn't know anything while Varys does, it seems quite telling.

Also, many other users pointed many hints that tie Varys at least to Blackfyres... so he's somehow involved with Targs in a way or another.

2 I wish I could help you more on this, and lack the correct answer...

Yet mind these five words: no tattooes on his face

3 In some Dany chapter we are reminded that the Unsullieds' manhoods are thrown into braziers, plus we know that there are way to colour the flames in Essos (or at least Melisandre can). Given that there are people that use to perform fire shows on the streets like Dany sees...

Well, all of Varys story about being cut has elements that can be found in the Essosi's culture.

People do also claim to see things in fires, why not hearing voices as well? :)

4 Most likely, since he can be really quiet and can change appeareance and voice

5 Not unlikely, but maybe he wanted to go somewhere else? Currently, to me it seems irrelevant, but I could be proven wrong.

6 I didn't ask him! Jokes aside, he has proven to be smart and ruthless, if problem arose I think he was able to overcome them.

7+8 That's a million golden dragons question. Protection and then eventual alliance or not?

Did he already knew about Illyrio and Serra? Had they already met?

Mysteries, mysteries...

[Lord Martin]

Very nice post LM. I think there is another conversation that is worth reviewing, Arya overhearing Varys and Illyrio. Here is the full text

From somewhere far below her, she heard noises. The scrape of boots, the distant sound of voices. A flickering light brushed the wall ever so faintly, and she saw that she stood at the top of a great black well, a shaft twenty feet across plunging deep into the earth. Huge stones had been set into the curving walls as steps, circling down and down, dark as the steps to hell that Old Nan used to tell them of. And something was coming up out of the darkness, out of the bowels of the earth . . .

Arya peered over the edge and felt the cold black breath on her face. Far below, she saw the light of a single torch, small as the flame of a candle. Two men, she made out. Their shadows writhed against the sides of the well, tall as giants. She could hear their voices, echoing up the shaft.

" . . . found one bastard," one said. "The rest will come soon. A day, two days, a fortnight . . . "

"And when he learns the truth, what will he do?" a second voice asked in the liquid accents of the Free Cities.

"The gods alone know," the first voice said. Arya could see a wisp of grey smoke drifting up off the torch, writhing like a snake as it rose. "The fools tried to kill his son, and what's worse, they made a mummer's farce of it. He's not a man to put that aside. I warn you, the wolf and lion will soon be at each other's throats, whether we will it or no."

"Too soon, too soon," the voice with the accent complained. "What good is war now? We are not ready. Delay."

"As well bid me stop time. Do you take me for a wizard?"

The other chuckled. "No less." Flames licked at the cold air. The tall shadows were almost on top of her. An instant later the man holding the torch climbed into her sight, his companion beside him. Arya crept back away from the well, dropped to her stomach, and flattened herself against the wall. She held her breath as the men reached the top of the steps.

"What would you have me do?" asked the torchbearer, a stout man in a leather half cape. Even in heavy boots, his feet seemed to glide soundlessly over the ground. A round scarred face and a stubble of dark beard showed under his steel cap, and he wore mail over boiled leather, and a dirk and shortsword at his belt. It seemed to Arya there was something oddly familiar about him.

"If one Hand can die, why not a second?" replied the man with the accent and the forked yellow beard. "You have danced the dance before, my friend." He was no one Arya had ever seen before, she was certain of it. Grossly fat, yet he seemed to walk lightly, carrying his weight on the balls of his feet as a water dancer might. His rings glimmered in the torchlight, red-gold and pale silver, crusted with rubies, sapphires, slitted yellow tiger eyes. Every finger wore a ring; some had two.

"Before is not now, and this Hand is not the other," the scarred man said as they stepped out into the hall. Still as stone, Arya told herself, quiet as a shadow. Blinded by the blaze of their own torch, they did not see her pressed flat against the stone, only a few feet away.

"Perhaps so," the forked beard replied, pausing to catch his breath after the long climb. "Nonetheless, we must have time. The princess is with child. The khal will not bestir himself until his son is born. You know how they are, these savages."

The man with the torch pushed at something. Arya heard a deep rumbling. A huge slab of rock, red in the torchlight, slid down out of the ceiling with a resounding crash that almost made her cry out. Where the entry to the well had been was nothing but stone, solid and unbroken.

"If he does not bestir himself soon, it may be too late," the stout man in the steel cap said. "This is no longer a game for two players, if ever it was. Stannis Baratheon and Lysa Arryn have fled beyond my reach, and the whispers say they are gathering swords around them. The Knight of Flowers writes Highgarden, urging his lord father to send his sister to court. The girl is a maid of fourteen, sweet and beautiful and tractable, and Lord Renly and Ser Loras intend that Robert should bed her, wed her, and make a new queen. Littlefinger . . . the gods only know what game Littlefinger is playing. Yet Lord Stark's the one who troubles my sleep. He has the bastard, he has the book, and soon enough he'll have the truth. And now his wife has abducted Tyrion Lannister, thanks to Littlefinger's meddling. Lord Tywin will take that for an outrage, and Jaime has a queer affection for the Imp. If the Lannisters move north, that will bring the Tullys in as well. Delay, you say. Make haste, I reply. Even the finest of jugglers cannot keep a hundred balls in the air forever."

"You are more than a juggler, old friend. You are a true sorcerer. All I ask is that you work your magic awhile longer." They started down the hall in the direction Arya had come, past the room with the monsters.

"What I can do, I will," the one with the torch said softly. "I must have gold, and another fifty birds."

She let them get a long way ahead, then went creeping after them. Quiet as a shadow.

"So many?" The voices were fainter as the light dwindled ahead of her. "The ones you need are hard to find . . . so young, to know their letters . . . perhaps older . . . not die so easy . . . "

"No. The younger are safer . . . treat them gently . . . "

" . . . .if they kept their tongues . . . "

" . . . the risk . . . "

Long after their voices had faded away, Arya could still see the light of the torch, a smoking star that bid her follow. Twice it seemed to disappear, but she kept on straight, and both times she found herself at the top of steep, narrow stairs, the torch glimmering far below her. She hurried after it, down and down. Once she stumbled over a rock and fell against the wall, and her hand found raw earth supported by timbers, whereas before the tunnel had been dressed stone.

There is a ton to discuss in this scene and we learn just how loaded it is as the series goes on. But I'll limit my analysis to Vary's roots.

First I note that the first room Arya is in is the room with the Dragon skulls. Is this a reminder that only Targs should know about this place? Admittedly Tyrion and Shae find it later but in this scene, it could be a hint at Vary's dragon-blood.

Then it reads "Arya peered over the edge and felt the cold black breath on her face. Far below, she saw the light of a single torch, small as the flame of a candle. Two men, she made out. Their shadows writhed against the sides of the well, tall as giants. She could hear their voices, echoing up the shaft.

The black breath from the shafts accompanies the voices... is this a Blackfyre hint? The bit about "tall as giants" makes me think these two characters "loom large" in the background, much like the Blackfyre pretenders do. Its only on a re-read that the significance of "black" and "flame" come to the fore.

The scene goes on

" . . . found one bastard," one said. "The rest will come soon. A day, two days, a fortnight . . . " [Varys]

"And when he learns the truth, what will he do?" a second voice asked in the liquid accents of the Free Cities. [illyrio]

"The gods alone know," the first voice said. Arya could see a wisp of grey smoke drifting up off the torch, writhing like a snake as it rose. "The fools tried to kill his son, and what's worse, they made a mummer's farce of it. He's not a man to put that aside. I warn you, the wolf and lion will soon be at each other's throats, whether we will it or no." [Varys]

"Too soon, too soon," the voice with the accent complained. "What good is war now? We are not ready. Delay." [illyrio]

"As well bid me stop time. Do you take me for a wizard?" [Varys}

The other chuckled. "No less." Flames licked at the cold air. The tall shadows were almost on top of her. An instant later the man holding the torch climbed into her sight, his companion beside him. Arya crept back away from the well, dropped to her stomach, and flattened herself against the wall. She held her breath as the men reached the top of the steps.

The import here is that Varys can see the upcoming conflict and knows he cannot stop it. But isn't the wizard crack odd in light of Vary's supposed history? I almost wonder if this is an inside joke between Varys and Illyrio regarding the con he is running. This makes me question Vary's entire story to Tyrion. Why would Varys joke about being the very thing that caused him to be a Eunuch?

Then we get the suggestion about what to do:

"What would you have me do?" asked the torchbearer, a stout man in a leather half cape. Even in heavy boots, his feet seemed to glide soundlessly over the ground. A round scarred face and a stubble of dark beard showed under his steel cap, and he wore mail over boiled leather, and a dirk and shortsword at his belt. It seemed to Arya there was something oddly familiar about him.

"If one Hand can die, why not a second?" replied the man with the accent and the forked yellow beard. "You have danced the dance before, my friend." He was no one Arya had ever seen before, she was certain of it. Grossly fat, yet he seemed to walk lightly, carrying his weight on the balls of his feet as a water dancer might. His rings glimmered in the torchlight, red-gold and pale silver, crusted with rubies, sapphires, slitted yellow tiger eyes. Every finger wore a ring; some had two.

"Before is not now, and this Hand is not the other," the scarred man said as they stepped out into the hall. Still as stone, Arya told herself, quiet as a shadow. Blinded by the blaze of their own torch, they did not see her pressed flat against the stone, only a few feet away.

Most people will be distracted by the threat against Ned, but what I find more interesting is who is the hand he killed? The list of possibilities is very short. Tywin Lannister, Orton Merryweather, Chelstead, Rossart and Jon Arryn are the hands going back from the time of this talk to Varys coming to King's Landing. We don't know who preceded Lord Tywin, but there's no evidence Varys killed him.

The problem with this list is that Vary's didn't have a role in any of these hand's deaths... except one... Jon Connington. He never "died" but Varys played a major part in telling the world he was dead, hence he "danced this dance before." So I wonder if this was Illyrio's suggestion that Varys win Ned Stark over to his side. But Varys knows that Ned would put his loyalty to Robert over any Targaryen right to the IT. Hence, "this hand is not the other." Connington was an unrepentant Targ loyalist, Ned is not.

I also note Illyrio's rings, sapphire, ruby and tiger's eye. If you believe in the jewel codes its further bolsters the idea that Illyrio is suggesting bringing Ned on board with their plot (Sapphires = lies and rubies = targs) Varys really suggests that Ned isn't the man they need.

I also wonder if their not seeing her, "blinded by the blaze of their own torch" suggests some sinister foreshadowing. Could Arya later be sent to assassinate Aegon VI? Are Varys and Illyrio blinded by their Targ loyalties such that they will miss seeing a danger in the shadows?

Then the talk goes on as Illyrio agrees:

"Perhaps so," the forked beard replied, pausing to catch his breath after the long climb. "Nonetheless, we must have time. The princess is with child. The khal will not bestir himself until his son is born. You know how they are, these savages."

The man with the torch pushed at something. Arya heard a deep rumbling. A huge slab of rock, red in the torchlight, slid down out of the ceiling with a resounding crash that almost made her cry out. Where the entry to the well had been was nothing but stone, solid and unbroken.

What I find interesting here is the overt references to Dany contrasted with the oblique references to a prior hand. But this has more to do with Vary's and Illyrio's motives rather than where Varys comes from.

Then the scene with the two concludes:

"If he does not bestir himself soon, it may be too late," the stout man in the steel cap said. "This is no longer a game for two players, if ever it was. Stannis Baratheon and Lysa Arryn have fled beyond my reach, and the whispers say they are gathering swords around them. The Knight of Flowers writes Highgarden, urging his lord father to send his sister to court. The girl is a maid of fourteen, sweet and beautiful and tractable, and Lord Renly and Ser Loras intend that Robert should bed her, wed her, and make a new queen. Littlefinger . . . the gods only know what game Littlefinger is playing. Yet Lord Stark's the one who troubles my sleep. He has the bastard, he has the book, and soon enough he'll have the truth. And now his wife has abducted Tyrion Lannister, thanks to Littlefinger's meddling. Lord Tywin will take that for an outrage, and Jaime has a queer affection for the Imp. If the Lannisters move north, that will bring the Tullys in as well. Delay, you say. Make haste, I reply. Even the finest of jugglers cannot keep a hundred balls in the air forever."

"You are more than a juggler, old friend. You are a true sorcerer. All I ask is that you work your magic awhile longer." They started down the hall in the direction Arya had come, past the room with the monsters.

"What I can do, I will," the one with the torch said softly. "I must have gold, and another fifty birds."

She let them get a long way ahead, then went creeping after them. Quiet as a shadow.

"So many?" The voices were fainter as the light dwindled ahead of her. "The ones you need are hard to find . . . so young, to know their letters . . . perhaps older . . . not die so easy . . . "

"No. The younger are safer . . . treat them gently . . . "

" . . . .if they kept their tongues . . . "

" . . . the risk . . . "

Long after their voices had faded away, Arya could still see the light of the torch, a smoking star that bid her follow.

Again, a sorcerer reference which seems odd. And the smoking star is also a unique choice of words. To me this could recall either Shiera Seastar or Aerion Brightflame or both. (While I admit I dislike the Brightflame theories, I may have to concede they have some potential viability.)

IMO, GRRM has left himself enough options with Varys, that we cannot know the answer and there are many options that could work.

[Lord Martin]

2 I wish I could help you more on this, and lack the correct answer...

Yet mind these five words: no tattooes on his face

Great Catch!!! So obvious, I cannot believe I missed it. Of course he wasn't born a slave! Lys is still a possibility, but not born a slave!

[FittleLinger]

2 I wish I could help you more on this, and lack the correct answer...

Yet mind these five words: no tattooes on his face

Just a reminder that only Volantene slaves have tattoos,

[Lost Melnibonean]

@Lord Martin: I really appreciate that bit with the black breath and the flame of the candle. That seems to be a very subtle hint at the Blackfyre theories.

[Lost Melnibonean]

@FittleLinger: So the slavers that captures Jorah were from Volantis? Didn't Tyrion's later chapters in Dance suggest that the he and Penny were lucky Yezzan didn't tattoo them but gave them a gilded collar instead?

[Lord Martin]

@Lord Martin: I really appreciate that bit with the black breath and the flame of the candle. That seems to be a very subtle hint at the Blackfyre theories.

Thanks and agree... but good ole GRRM always operates on several levels.

For instance Bloodraven has colors of "blood and smoke" usually red and shades of grey and his traditional sigil is a white dragon with red flame and black background.... or combine the black and white to get grey.

We know he and Shiera Seastar were lovers, whose to say they didn't have a child. Shiera's mother was Serenei of Lys, a reputed sorceress. Sheira herself was alleged to be a sorceress. And Bloodraven was known to be a sorcerer possibly because his mother was a Blackwood, we know he was truly a warg/greenseer.

So a "smoking star" could refer to a descendant of either or both. And the connection between Serenei of Lys and Serra, Wife of Illyrio could be important too.

[Lord Martin]

Just a reminder that only Volantene slaves have tattoos,

Nice point, Doreah didn't have any facial tattoos either.

[FittleLinger]

@FittleLinger: So the slavers that captures Jorah were from Volantis? Didn't Tyrion's later chapters in Dance suggest that the he and Penny were lucky Yezzan didn't tattoo them but gave them a gilded collar instead?

They don't give him a slave tattoo to indicate what type of slave he is like they do in Volantis, but rather gave him a "demon's mark" to mark his as a dangerous and disobedient slave. I even think it's not a tattoo, but a mark with hot iron. And I'm not sure about that, but doesn't Tyrion think this in the lines that they are lucky they are not in Volantis to get tattooed, or maybe that they are lucky they are not disobedient like Jorah?

What I'm saying is, Jorah's is a punishment mark and not a slave tattoo.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Thanks and agree... but good ole GRRM always operates on several levels.

For instance Bloodraven has colors of "blood and smoke" usually red and shades of grey and his traditional sigil is a white dragon with red flame and black background.... or combine the black and white to get grey.

We know he and Shiera Seastar were lovers, whose to say they didn't have a child. Shiera's mother was Serenei of Lys, a reputed sorceress. Sheira herself was alleged to be a sorceress. And Bloodraven was known to be a sorcerer possibly because his mother was a Blackwood, we know he was truly a warg/greenseer.

So a "smoking star" could refer to a descendant of either or both. And the connection between Serenei of Lys and Serra, Wife of Illyrio could be important too.

Yeah, I never noticed tha smoking star reference before. I agree that wasn't just some simple flowery description. And I am familiar with the imagery you describe, but Varys being a descendant of Bloodraven and Shiera? I can't see that. But Serra... hmmm...

[Lord Martin]

Yeah, I never noticed tha smoking star reference before. I agree that wasn't just some simple flowery description. And I am familiar with the imagery you describe, but Varys being a descendant of Bloodraven and Shiera? I can't see that. But Serra... hmmm...

No chance Serra and Varys are siblings and that's the connection between them?

Or maybe half siblings? Imagine the descendants of Bloodraven and Bittersteele, both via Shiera coming together to put Aegon VI on the throne?

[Lost Melnibonean]

No chance Serra and Varys are siblings and that's the connection between them?

Or maybe half siblings? Imagine the descendants of Bloodraven and Bittersteele, both via Shiera coming together to put Aegon VI on the throne?

I like the way you think. But I subscribe to the Brightfyre theory. Still I don't see why Serra has to be Varys's sister... Maybe Illyrio is a Blackfyre, Varys is a Brightflame, and Serra is a... wait for it... "Bloodstar!"

[Lord Martin]

I like the way you think. But I subscribe to the Brightfyre theory. Still I don't see why Serra has to be Varys's sister... Maybe Illyrio is a Blackfyre, Varys is a Brightflame, and Shiera is a... wait for it... "Bloodstar!"

Oh she doesn't have to be, its just one possible way to connect Varys and Illyrio and make the Blackfyre pretenders relevant.

Can I ask, do you fully subscribe to the Brightflame theory or do you merely think its possible? I admit I resisted it for a long time, but now admit its possible his descendants have a role to play. But I still think the Blackfyre's have a bigger one to play.

Oh and don't forget the theory that Mel is descended from Shiera Seastar too!

[Lost Melnibonean]

Oh she doesn't have to be, its just one possible way to connect Varys and Illyrio and make the Blackfyre pretenders relevant.

Can I ask, do you fully subscribe to the Brightflame theory or do you merely think its possible? I admit I resisted it for a long time, but now admit its possible his descendants have a role to play. But I still think the Blackfyre's have a bigger one to play.

Oh and don't forget the theory that Mel is descended from Shiera Seastar too!

Yes, I am a card carrying member of the Brightfyre believers. I had always suspected Illyrio was the Blackfyre, not Varys, at least after I read Dance the second time. I resisted the idea of Varys having Targaryen blood until recently, but became persuaded by the Brightfyre theory, which answers more questions than the other Blackfyre theories. As you say Aetion had a trueborn son snd likely fathered a bastard or two in Lys for a reason. Perhaps the reason will grt played out in D&E but for now it fits with Varys being a descendant. Believing that Varys was born a slave I assumed he was illegitimate but I'm wondering if he was truly orphaned by Aerion's legitimate son and wife... Anyway, I agree that the critical identity is Blackfyre, and I am convinced Illyrio is Daemon's heir. Now as to Serra being a descendant of Shiera and Bloodraven, it's not as silly as it sounds. That smoking star reference has nearly persuaded me, well, it at least has me hooked. Consider that Tyrion reads three books on the Stinky Steward. The "most engrossing" is about a young slave girl in a Lysene pillow house. It apparently begins with her account of how she and her sister were taken by slavers. Perhaps Serra was Melisandre's younger sister... And don't be put off by the idea of so many drops of Targaryen blood. Aegon is a chimera...

As Daenerys enters Qarth, she passes under an arch of green, black, and blue snakes...

All the colors that had been missing from Vaes Tolorro had found their way to Qarth; buildings crowded about her fantastical as a fever dream in shades of rose, violet, and umber. She passed under a bronze arch fashioned in the likeness of two snakes mating, their scales delicate flakes of jade, obsidian, and lapis lazuli. Slim towers stood taller than any Dany had ever seen, and elaborate fountains filled every square, wrought in the shapes of griffins and dragons and manticores.

Daenerys II, Clash

Notice that she observes fountains wrought in the shapes of griffins and dragons and manticores. The griffin and dragon allusions are easy, of course, Jon Connington and Aegon. But the manticore allusion is much more elusive. In case you dont know, the manticore is a chimera, a fantastical beast comprised of the body parts of more than one animal or other mythical beast. The manticore most commonly consisted of a human head, a lions body, a bats wings, and a scorpions tail, but there were other variations. In ASOIAF, the manticore was much smaller, with a malign, black face and an arched, venomous tail, with the ability to fold itself into a scarab. In the real world, the manticore and chimeras were depicted in the art of the Romanesque and Renaissance periods to symbolize fraud. So, we have Jon Connington, Aegon, and fraud.

[Mithras]

Pycelle advised Eddard that Varys was born a slave in Lys...

Eddard V, Game

Although Pycelle might believe it this way, his real purpose in saying this was to light some torches in Ned's mind. He wanted to tell him that Jon Arryn was poisoned by Tears of Lys and Varys should be the one who did that. Of course Ned didn’t understand a word of the backstory.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Although Pycelle might believe it this way, his real purpose in saying this was to light some torches in Ned's mind. He wanted to tell him that Jon Arryn was poisoned by Tears of Lys and Varys should be the one who did that. Of course Ned didnt understand a word of the backstory.

Right, so you're suggesting that Varys was ophaned and apprenticed to the mummers?

[Fire Eater]

I think Varys is a Blackfyre, likely a brother or of some relation to Maelys. I think he was originally from Lys, and that he did serve with a group of traveling mummers in Myr. However, I doubt he gave the complete story behind his castration. It is a mistake to give that kind of info on a traumatic event in your past to political rivals who could use it against you.

With a long hooked blade, he sliced me [Varys] root and stem, chanting all the while. I watched the him burn my manly parts on a brazier. The flames turned blue, and I heard a voice answer his call, though I did not understand the words they spoke.

Sam Stoop's wife says she [Lady Rohanne Webber] sold her babes unborn to the Lord of the Seven Hells, so he'd teach her his black arts.

This is Egg talking about Lady Webber, whose sigil is a spider. Varys is referred to as the Spider, and his castration was in a way, selling his babes unborn with the seven hells imagery tied to the burning brazier. I think Varys actually wasn't castrated by force but sold his manhood and ability to reproduce as the price to pay for him to learn the black arts of sorcery. I think the sorcerer who castrated Varys was his mentor, of a line of the last wizards teaching from master to pupil. I wouldn't be surprised if to become a wizard one needed to be castrated; magical power always comes at price with greenseers spending their lives on weirwood thrones, and FM giving up everything they have.

The last name caught Daenerys. “A knight?”

“No less.” Illyrio smiled through his beard.

“As well bid me stop time. Do you take me for a wizard?”

The other [illyrio] chuckled. “No less.”

I think Varys actually is a wizard with what Paper Weaver found.

I think Varys may have behind Summerhall in attempt to wipe out House Targaryen. The War of the Ninepenny Kings was launched the same year. Jaehaerys II also died the same year as Maelys; Varys could have poisoned him as retribution for Maelys.

I think Varys and Illyrio did come to an agreement. They could have met in Pentos like Illyrio said, or when Illyrio was a sellsword fighting on the side of the Blackfyres in the War of the Ninepenny Kings. They came to deal, Illyrio would marry Serra Blackfyre while Varys would work to destabilize the Targaryen regime and get them overthrown. They would work to put Illyrio's son on the IT.

[Mithras]

Right, so you're suggesting that Varys was ophaned and apprenticed to the mummers?

I am not sure because these two suckers are really good liars.

In Tyrion X, Clash we learn a little more of Varys's origins...

Quote

Tyrion X, Clash

And this story of Varys might be some twisted half truth. His real purpose here was to answer Tyrion's question about how Renly and Penrose were killed. He told him a tale about black magic.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I think Varys is a Blackfyre, likely a brother or of some relation to Maelys. I think he was originally from Lys, and that he did serve with a group of traveling mummers in Myr. However, I doubt he gave the complete story behind his castration. It is a mistake to give that kind of info on a traumatic event in your past to political rivals who could use it against you.

With a long hooked blade, he sliced me [Varys] root and stem, chanting all the while. I watched the him burn my manly parts on a brazier. The flames turned blue, and I heard a voice answer his call, though I did not understand the words they spoke.

Sam Stoop's wife says she [Lady Rohanne Webber] sold her babes unborn to the Lord of the Seven Hells, so he'd teach her his black arts.

This is Egg talking about Lady Webber, whose sigil is a spider. Varys is referred to as the Spider, and his castration was in a way, selling his babes unborn with the seven hells imagery tied to the burning brazier. I think Varys actually wasn't castrated by force but sold his manhood and ability to reproduce as the price to pay for him to learn the black arts of sorcery. I think the sorcerer who castrated Varys was his mentor, of a line of the last wizards teaching from master to pupil. I wouldn't be surprised if to become a wizard one needed to be castrated; magical power always comes at price with greenseers spending their lives on weirwood thrones, and FM giving up everything they have.

The last name caught Daenerys. A knight?

No less. Illyrio smiled through his beard.

As well bid me stop time. Do you take me for a wizard?

The other [illyrio] chuckled. No less.

I think Varys actually is a wizard with what Paper Weaver found.

I think Varys may have behind Summerhall in attempt to wipe out House Targaryen. The War of the Ninepenny Kings was launched the same year. Jaehaerys II also died the same year as Maelys; Varys could have poisoned him as retribution for Maelys.

I think Varys and Illyrio did come to an agreement. They could have met in Pentos like Illyrio said, or when Illyrio was a sellsword fighting on the side of the Blackfyres in the War of the Ninepenny Kings. They came to deal, Illyrio would marry Serra Blackfyre while Varys would work to destabilize the Targaryen regime and get them overthrown. They would work to put Illyrio's son on the IT.

So you believe Varys and Illyrio are both at least of an age with Barristan?