Aegon V's wife (Westerlands reading, D&E spoilers, etc)

[Bael's Bastard]

Do you think Aegon V's wife will end up being a commoner? A foreigner? From a major or minor house in Westeros? What do you think?

I have long thought she will be a Lannister.

The Westerlands reading made me think even more that it may be possible. Lord Gerold Lannister's second eldest son Tion was squire to Aegon V. Gerold was said to be key to swaying the Great Council in favor of Aegon V. And apparently Tywin and Tytos got into a fight after Genna's betrothal, and was sent to court some time later, becoming Aegon V's cupbearer.

None of this inherently means that Aegon had marriage ties to the Lannisters. He could have formed a bond with Gerold and his family in his youth and kept it up throughout his life and reign (IIRC the D&E books are right around the time that Gerold goes from regent to his brother's daughter to lord in his own right).

What house (if any) do you think Egg's wife will turn out to be from?

[Beorn Snow]

Doesn´t sound unlikely actually. Do we know anything more about who sided with or against whom.

The Starks and Lannisters of Egg´s youth were very friendly due to them having a common enemy in the Ironborn. What about the wolves. Could it be that Egg would meet his future wife in the Shewolves of Winterfell?
Lannisters sound more likely. She could be from the Reach (though probably not Tyrell), Arryns and Martells also seem within realm of possibility for a Targaryen king.

The only argument I see against this is the "marriage for love" thing. A match with the great families makes sense politically, and Aegon and his sons did the exact opposite of that. Maybe he got married or betrothed before anyone imagined he could be a king. I think that doesn´t sound that unlikely at all.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I do think she'll be from a noble house, not a commoner.

Aegon's second son was born in 223AC, so Duncan, the firstborn son, would have been born a few years before (in 222AC the latest). With the She-Wolves taking place in 213AC, I'd say that he won't be meeting her there, because he'll 1) still be rather young, and 2) seems to not be getting married for a few more years. It would take quite some love to not forget a girl you've shortly met for many years.

With is being usual that the royalties marry the daughters of Great Houses, I suspect Aegon from having broken the "rules" a bit by marrying a girl from a lesser house, and not one of the Great Houses. It would then be at least one of Aegons' sons who broke the "rules" completely by marrying a commoner (Jeyne of Oldstones).

The Lannisters, though a Great House, would be possible, if Tytos has a sister. Was there a sister mentioned at all during the readings?

[Bael's Bastard]

I seem to recall hearing something about Lannisters and Starks being allied in some way in the time of the She Wolves story. I was thinking he either comes across his wife in that story, or maybe befriends someone that will end up being related to her in a later story (i.e. a Gerold, who interestingly ends up marrying Rohanne Webber at some point, which can also help explain Aegon's seeming closeness with her Lannister husband and descendants).

[Bael's Bastard]

The Lannisters, though a Great House, would be possible, if Tytos has a sister. Was there a sister mentioned at all during the readings?

I didn't see any daughters mentioned. There may end up not being any, but I still think it is possible there will be someone in there for him.

[Shadrich]

I seem to recall hearing something about Lannisters and Starks being allied in some way in the time of the She Wolves story. I was thinking he either comes across his wife in that story, or maybe befriends someone that will end up being related to her in a later story (i.e. a Gerold, who interestingly ends up marrying Rohanne Webber at some point, which can also help explain Aegon's seeming closeness with her Lannister husband and descendants).

Are you sure it was Rohanne Webber? I thought only the name "Rohanne" was mentioned, but not her House.

[The Fourth Head]

Aegon V spent much of his youth surrounded by commoners, Duncan- from Flea Bottom- formed a major role model for him, and he spent much of his reign trying to better the lives of the smallfolk. It all implies that he did not marry a member of one of the great houses, and I'm willing to go as far as him marrying a commoner. He did not know he would be king when he married, and I doubt anyone would have minded much if he was fiercely in love, willfull (as we know him to be) and if it negated him as a rival and risk to other family members higher up the line of succession. There were plenty of other Targaryans to form significant marriage alliances. When he became king, that decision then came back to haunt him, and who knows? Perhaps Summerhall had the Lannisters involved behind the scenes? Spurned and bitter for 2 generations in a row?

[Bael's Bastard]

Are you sure it was Rohanne Webber? I thought only the name "Rohanne" was mentioned, but not her House.

You are correct that the Webber part was not explicitly stated in the report of the reading, but it would be the only real candidate for "surprising Lannister ancestor" in the reading, which covered the Lannister history up and into Tywin's life.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Very unlikely to be a commoner, as that would take him out of succession (see: Duncan the Small). But a very minor noble is possible.

Aegon's second child was born in 223AC, so Duncan, the firstborn son, would have been born a few years before (in 222AC the latest). With the She-Wolves taking place in 213AC, I'd say that he won't be meeting her there, because he'll 1) still be rather young, and 2) seems to not be getting married for a few more years. It would take quite some love to not forget a girl you've shortly met for many years.

Where did you get that? I don't remember any date for Rhaelle's birth.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Very unlikely to be a commoner, as that would take him out of succession (see: Duncan the Small). But a very minor noble is possible.

Where did you get that? I don't remember any date for Rhaelle's birth.

That's Jaehaerys ;) He was 39 years old when he died in 262AC

It should have said second born son, not child..

As to Rhaelle, we don't know if the was the first, second, third of fourth born of Aegon's children ;)

Edit: I've changed it to avoid future confusion :)

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Thanks.

On Rhaelle and Jaeharys, we actually do know. Renly is referring to "second sons and elder sisters" when talking about the Maesters justifying Robert's claim, therefore Rhaelle has to be older than Jaeharys.

Taking an average two years cycle between children and Duncan being the result of the wedding night, that would put Egg's wedding in 218. Quite late, with Egg being about 19. Maybe a three years cycle would work better.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Thanks.

On Rhaelle and Jaeharys, we actually do know. Renly is referring to "second sons and elder sisters" when talking about the Maesters justifying Robert's claim, therefore Rhaelle has to be older than Jaeharys.

Taking an average two years cycle between children and Duncan being the result of the wedding night, that would put Egg's wedding in 218. Quite late, with Egg being about 19. Maybe a three years cycle would work better.

Isn't he referring to Rhaenyra, the elder sister, and her claim to the throne over Aegon?

Since Egg married for love, I always pictured him having gotten married a slightly older age than the average Targaryen seems to have been (13-15). I always pictured him to have been 18 or so, at least past the 16, when he would be a man grown officially.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Isn't he referring to Rhaenyra, the elder sister, and her claim to the throne over Aegon?

Nope. He is explicitly referring to Robert's claim. Which is based on Rhaelle. Rhaenyra isn't linked to Robert in any way.

Furthermore, he says something about "marriages a hundred years past". The ~70 years since Rhaelle's marriage could be rounded up to a full hundred, but the two hundred since Rhaenyra? Not so much.

Since Egg married for love, I always pictured him having gotten married a slightly older age than the average Targaryen seems to have been (13-15). I always pictured him to have been 18 or so, at least past the 16, when he would be a man grown officially.

Egg was born 199, marrying in 216 (three years cycle) or 218 (two years cycle) fit that to a T.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

But then how does the "second sons" part fit in there? Jaehaerys? That doesn't make sense, because it had been established by law a long time before that male claimants inherit over female ones.

And not that it matters all too much, but I've placed Egg's birth in 200AC. How did you get to 199AC?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

But then how does the "second sons" part fit in there? Jaehaerys? That doesn't make sense, because it had been established by law a long time before that male claimants inherit over female ones.

As Renly put it, the Maesters retroactively made some shit up to fit Robert's warhammer.

And not that it matters all too much, but I've placed Egg's birth in 200AC. How did you get to 199AC?

Wiki. Doesn't matter, fall 199 or spring 200 is no noticeable difference.

[The Fourth Head]

if Aemon refused the throne, why would the man with the next best claim be taken out of succession because he married a commoner? that is opinion, not fact. Are they really going to pass over him and appoint a distant relative, or Blackfyre on the grounds of...Aegon having married a commoner?

Aegon's rule was a troubled one- it is stated in wiki. that would add credence to the idea that westeros resented Aegon marrying a commoner yet having the best claim. It could have been a case of suck it, or war, for the grand council.

[The Fourth Head]

Very unlikely to be a commoner, as that would take him out of succession (see: Duncan the Small). But a very minor noble is possible.

Fair point, but not entirely the same. Duncan broke an engagement- causing major possible ramifications (ie open war) unless he gave up the crown. That didnt apply with Aegon. I would argue it was more about breaking an engagement- just like Rhaegar riding off with Lyanna, breaking Robert's engagement caused war. The commoner element is less important IMO. Further, Duncan had a younger brother and gave it up willingly. He knew the deal. Behind Aegon, I'm guessing there was a bit of a power vacuum?