Cersei is just as 'Mad' as any Targaryen has ever been

[Suzanna Stormborn]

She's madder than the maddest Targaryen. Almost as bad as Aegon the Unworthy. There's more than a little bit of Maegor the Cruel in her as well.

Thank you! Exactly. Just as mad as any of them, and arguably just as evil and cruel as the cruelest evilest people we have ever heard of in the Song.

[Dany Girl]

wow we wrote pretty much the same at the same time.

Lol, just saw your post. Great minds think alike I guess :D

[Alia of the knife]

I think there's more to Cersei's sex scenes than meer kinkiness though. She's banged her brother literally next to her drunk passed out husband more than once, then again next to her dead son on the alter of the HS. These actions are those of a person who believes they cannot be touched, cannot be caught, will not face any punishment for it. It's not mentally healthy to put yourself willingly into situations that literally could get you killed.

And if all Rhaegal did was dance naked around his own house, I'm guessing a lot of us would be considered "mad" too. I know I hang out naked in my house quite often, especially lately when it been like 90+ degrees outside! Lol.

And nothing like 90% humidity to make you whip that shirt off, lol.

Also, really good points on her behaviors and why they are significant to her madness. Going to Winterfell, in unknown territory and behaving in such a manner where certainly the inhabitants knew the layout better than you is quite literally madness.

With Cersei, Elizabeth Bathory, or "the Lady of Blood," also comes to mind.

Sometimes known as the "Tigress of Csejte," she was considered the most prolific female serial killer in history. She was accused, along with four other accomplices, of torturing and killing hundreds of girls between 1585 and 1610.

Her husband also died supposedly due to an "unknown" illness or battle wound, and i think there were rumors of incest which made "the blood bad."

Whether or not, her crimes were this extreme, like Cersei, she got worse as time went on, believing herself untouchable.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Exactly! and it is not like she is enjoying it being comfortable with your own sexuality and using sex as a control are vastly different she is an extreme risk taker and plays dangerous games. This not being in control of your sexuality or even your own body it is as out of control as the anorexic that starves herself or the bulimic that purges.

People will say that her aborting Robert's child was a sign of control of her own body but it really was not it was her being a spiteful bitch.

PLus I mean considering the world she lives in, and she is the kings new wife. It is totally against the law and high-treason to abort the kings first born son. I mean that is just wrong and terrible. Dont get me wrong in our society I believe in freedom of choice. But that is not the same society as medievil Westeros. Even if some women want to fool around before they are married and keep themselves unpregnant with moon tea or whatever, you are not allowed to do that once you become queen. If anyone found out she had done that pretty sure the punishment would be death. Also a realm is always safer once there is an heir to the throne, but of course she didnt care about any of that.

The normal act for a queen in her position would be to happily have as many kids as you can. She has gone well against tradition by doing this. and she wanted to be queen, no one forced her into this marriage.

[Dany Girl]

And nothing like 90% humidity to make you whip that shirt off, lol.

Also, really good points on her behaviors and why they are significant to her madness. Going to Winter Fell, in unknown territory and behaving in such a manner where certainly the inhabitants knew the layout better than you is quite literally madness.

With Cersei, Elizabeth Bathory, or "the Lady of Blood," also comes to mind.

Sometimes known as the "Tigress of Csejte," she was considered the most prolific female serial killer in history. She was accused, along with four other accomplices, of torturing and killing hundreds of girls between 1585 and 1610.

Her husband also died supposedly due to an "unknown" illness or battle wound, and i think there were rumors of incest which made "the blood bad."

Whether or not, her crimes were this extreme, like Cersei, she got worse as time went on, believing herself untouchable.

I've always had thoughts of Lady Bathory when thinking of Cersei. No, Cersei isn't bathing in the blood of virgins (yet). But something about her level of cruelty when handing over innocent people to Qyburn for instance just links them in my mind. I don't think we've seen the peek of Cersei's madness yet, and I don't think her bathing in the blood of virgins is out of the question, especially after her reality check of the WOS.

[Light a wight tonight]

Well was Rhaegal mad or all the way mentally challenged? Cuz there is a difference.

Kinkier? you think that is what a psychologist would call it?

Also what makes dancing around naked so 'mad'?

Psychologists avoid terms like "mad". IMO they'd be a lot more likely to say kinky than mad or crazy. Don't take my word for it; ask one. And be sure to report back.

Dancing nude is a profession or trade. But it's totally unsuitable for a member of a royal family. Next time you run into one of them, you might inquire about their feelings on the matter. Most likely answer: "Are you mad?"

[Light a wight tonight]

Morbid is the right word, Nothing wrong with a bit of kink, but that was.....

Morbid? I think not. They were doing life, not death. Not entirely unlike the Cinnamon Wind orgy after Maester Aemon's death.

[Dr. Pepper]

Psychologists avoid terms like "mad". IMO they'd be a lot more likely to say kinky than mad or crazy. Don't take my word for it; ask one. And be sure to report back.

Dancing nude is a profession or trade. But it's totally unsuitable for a member of a royal family. Next time you run into one of them, you might inquire about their feelings on the matter. Most likely answer: "Are you mad?"

Yeah, you'd be pretty hard-pressed to find a mental health professional label sex as a funeral as "mad" or "insane". Life affirming activities in the face of death is sort of normal

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I've always had thoughts of Lady Bathory when thinking of Cersei. No, Cersei isn't bathing in the blood of virgins (yet). But something about her level of cruelty when handing over innocent people to Qyburn for instance just links them in my mind. I don't think we've seen the peek of Cersei's madness yet, and I don't think her bathing in the blood of virgins is out of the question, especially after her reality check of the WOS.

Yes handing over people to qyburn, letting her bff die down that well. Killing a massive amount of dwarves. killing some of Roberts bastards. Make no mistake she is a murderer through and through. and not on the battle field where it is forgiven. She is a real-life murderer.

[Alia of the knife]

I've always had thoughts of Lady Bathory when thinking of Cersei. No, Cersei isn't bathing in the blood of virgins (yet). But something about her level of cruelty when handing over innocent people to Qyburn for instance just links them in my mind. I don't think we've seen the peek of Cersei's madness yet, and I don't think her bathing in the blood of virgins is out of the question, especially after her reality check of the WOS.

Exactly, I'm sure she remembers what the kid said about her being "all saggy like his mom."

A woman who has depended upon her beauty for all she dressed like a boy, will take that comment to heart.

And again, pointing to your emphasis on the significance of her behaviors because as MLK said, a person should be judged by the content of their character, not anything else, and certainly her character comes up wanting.

[Alia Atreides]

PLus I mean considering the world she lives in, and she is the kings new wife. It is totally against the law and high-treason to abort the kings first born son. I mean that is just wrong and terrible. Dont get me wrong in our society I believe in freedom of choice. But that is not the same society as Westeros. Even if some women want to fool around before they are married and keep themselves unpregnant with moon tea or whatever, you are not allowed to do that once you become queen. If anyone found out she had done that pretty sure the punishment would be death. Also a realm is always safer once there is an heir to the throne, but of course she didnt care about any of that.

The normal act for a queen in her position would be to happily have as many kids as you can. She has gone well against tradition by doing this. and she wanted to be queen, no one forced her into this marriage.

That and it was also her once again playing with her own life if she had been caught that was the just sticking her middle finger at Robert and if you come down to it her own family as well. Robert wasn't the most forgiving of men and I don't think she did it for any other reason than to simply spite him for once calling her Lyanna and anything else she could dream up in her own bitter mind. It is her most sympathetic and at the same time most pitiful traits (her bitterness that clouds any judgements she makes) its one of the reasons I don't hate Cersei; Cersei hates Cersei enough without anyone else contributing to it for her...

She is bitter because she is the wrong sex.

She is bitter because she has used her "sex" and find herself growing old a prime example just before her walk she was more concerned with her body (the Breasts and Tummy that showed the signs of child bearing and weight gain) than the crimes she was being charged with by the High Septon.

had to edit as usual I TYPE slower than I think.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Psychologists avoid terms like "mad". IMO they'd be a lot more likely to say kinky than mad or crazy. Don't take my word for it; ask one. And be sure to report back.

Dancing nude is a profession or trade. But it's totally unsuitable for a member of a royal family. Next time you run into one of them, you might inquire about their feelings on the matter. Most likely answer: "Are you mad?"

Have you ever read A Rose for Emily? I mean I know you are on the opposite side of me in this argument, but you really dont see anything wrong with having sex with your sister right next to your father's corpse?

Personally I would probably want to institutionalize someone if they told me they had just casually done that.

And I'm sorry, but no I do not think what Cersei and Jaime did is anything like what Sam and Gilly did. S&G were celebrating 'life' as you say, and they were not locked in a room with the corpse sitting there on a table. and they are not related and the corpse is not their father.

Edit: And let me be clear about the incest thing. cersei and Jaime were raised in family where brothers and sisters were not supposed to mate, they knew it was wrong and they did it anyway. I know that they knew it was wrong becasue they never told anyone, it was a huge secret they kept. They wanted to keep the secret so bad that they were fine with killing Bran. Cersei even gives those reasons when Jaime asks her to be with him openly. The Targs were raised differently, came from a different country where customs were different, and when they do marry brother to sister they do not keep it a secret. But it is widely known that they are the only family in the 7K to do so. So it is far odder for Jaime and Cersei to be doing all this than it is for the Targs to do it.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

tbh, they wouldn't be the first people to have sex due to grief:

Sam and Gilly

Robb and Jeyne

Maybe Rhaegar and Lyanna.

The first two pairs, unlike Cersei, are normal human beings grieving. I don't mind people that look comfort to each other after a loss. But in Cersei and Jaime's case is terrible! Jaime was horny and Cersei didn't actually protest that much. And the blood, the seed, the candles... the could have set the whole thing on fire... :S

[RoamingRonin]

Sam and Gilly didn't have sex on top of Maester Aemon's corpse barrel. Gilly didn't leak milk absolutely everywhere either. They got a room and kept their fluids to themselves.

[butterbumps!]

@Suzanna

I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make in this thread. I'm just confused by which one of these you're arguing:

Is the issue that you're trying to prove that Cersei is the pinnacle of insanity, thereby exonerating the Targs from that honor? Is this about proving that Cersei is crazier than anything attributable to the Targs, as if to say that the Targs, as a whole, aren't so batshit as people make them out to be? (If this is what you're going for, I'm not sure that proving someone is less crazy than Cersei is much of a victory)

Or is this about Cersei's "madness" specifically, and this thread is intended to be a measured exploration of her various personality disorders? (If so, might it be useful to do so by measuring Cersei's character up to the rubric of the DSM or something?)

Either way, I don't really understand why her sexuality is being focused on so highly. Seriously, she's really not that especially promiscuous. She had sex with 4 men over the last 17 years.

[HexMachina]

Psychologists avoid terms like "mad". IMO they'd be a lot more likely to say kinky than mad or crazy. Don't take my word for it; ask one. And be sure to report back.

Dancing nude is a profession or trade. But it's totally unsuitable for a member of a royal family. Next time you run into one of them, you might inquire about their feelings on the matter. Most likely answer: "Are you mad?"

Yeah, mad is not a term psychologists would used but it provides a laypersons umbrella term for mental illness/mental deficiency.

I'd be interested to ask Prince Harry that question ;)

[Guest Thorrand]

snipped

[The Dragons Hand]

Well if this is madness (Which it very well could be) it sounds rather coherent. I was under the impression that Aerys was a just a hedonist after his getting kidnapped triggered his nuttery. Then again, it has been said that Viserys showed signs of madness while in kings landing. Different strokes for different folks.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

@Suzanna

I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make in this thread. I'm just confused by which one of these you're arguing:

Is the issue that you're trying to prove that Cersei is the pinnacle of insanity, thereby exonerating the Targs from that honor? Is this about proving that Cersei is crazier than anything attributable to the Targs, as if to say that the Targs, as a whole, aren't so batshit as people make them out to be? (If this is what you're going for, I'm not sure that proving someone is less crazy than Cersei is much of a victory)

As I see it, I think it's a comparison between the Targs and Cersei, and how power affects you, whether you're Targaryen or not. Cersei can't handle the power she has, she's completely unprepared for that and it's reflecting on her mental health, mostly due to the wrong images her own father has given to her about what power is. The Targaryen also have, paraphrasing my kinda funny username title, a sense of entitlement given by the fact that people think they're above men and gods, having dragons, being Valyrian and blah. Cersei is, despite anything Tywin could think, an ordinary noble girl who plays by the same rules than other noble ladies, but she can't see that: she thinks she's above that and she deserves being a Queen when she can't even assemble a smart Council and proper advisers. And, while both Tywin and Cersei think they're lions, the lions can't be dragons. Aerys, in a way, put them both in their place: "no, you can't marry my son, you're my servant". The rejection has indeed affected Cersei, not only because since very young she started to feel that her father (and men in general) failed to her, she believes that everything that is wrong in her life is due to not being married to Rhaegar and "up" her life as she thinks she's entitled.

People like Aerion Brightflame or maybe Rhaegar himself and Viserys when he was young probably grew up thinking they can do whatever they wanted because they're royal and they're "dragons". This affected some Targaryens while some other grew up fine and were good Kings. Some other, despite that entitlement, probably were in the same position than Cersei has, overwhelmed by the pressures of power and duty and cracked, which I can completely understand. Aerys is an special case because it's closer to the current timeline than the others and we've met people who actually met him. But he's the only one called "Mad" while Maegor was called, for instance, "the Cruel". And (while I haven't yet read Princess and Queen), Aegon III had also a quite traumatic experiences during his childhood and youth but he's not remembered as mad, nor I think he was.

About Cersei's sexuality, I think she's different from other ladies we've met. Arianne, Asha and Dany live freely their sexuality: they have sex whenever they want with whoever they want and they're responsible about that. No one calls them "mad" for that. Cersei's case is completely different. She uses sex to replace thinks she lacks, like brains and Jaime. When Jaime is captured, she uses Lancel as a mediocre replacement. She also thinks people is in love wit her because she's irresistible, which she's not: Oberyn doesn't find her attractive and Aurane used her to get ships, while Taena probably is an spy.

Sam and Gilly didn't have sex on top of Maester Aemon's corpse barrel. Gilly didn't leak milk absolutely everywhere either. They got a room and kept their fluids to themselves.

I know, that's why I said, they're normal people. It's not wrong to grieve someone with sex in the way they did.

Also, this: https://31.media.tumblr.com/2338d43e58c82a9c0348e69664b9384b/tumblr_n67p2g3pwh1rzshsvo1_400.gif