LordBloodraven Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Considering the recent Stark family tree, I think she's the bitter pregnant woman in Bran's vision.Br I know the MUSH is not canon but I don't think it's all made up. Rickon Stark is the eldest son and heir of Lord Cregan but he predeceases him (d.157) leaving two daughters, Sansa and Serena. Lord Cregan has much younger sons, Edric, Barthogan, Brandon and Jonnel but if we follow what happened with the Alys Karstark story, Rickon's daughters are the next heiresses of their grandfather. They are obviously passed over in favour of their younger uncles. First hypothesis: To reunite these claims, Lord Cregan decides to marry his desired heir, Edric, with his eldest granddaughter, Serena. But Edric dies early and his brothers take the Winterfell throne successively. Second hypothesis: Serena and Sansa are passed over in favour of his heir Jonnel (as specified in the MUSH). Edric is the second son and marries Serena. That gives him legitimacy through his wife and he tries to take Winterfell by siding with the Blackfyre during the First Rebellion, as suggested by Lord Varys. He could even have been influenced by his wife who wanted to take what she may have considered as her "rights". But they both lose, and may try to get Winterfell after Beron's death when their children are grown-up and well connected (Umbers and Cerwyns) compared to Beron's children (young and with a mother from the Vale). What do you think? Is she our bitter woman, praying for vengeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Considering the recent Stark family tree, I think she's the bitter pregnant woman in Bran's vision.Br I know the MUSH is not canon but I don't think it's all made up. Rickon Stark is the eldest son and heir of Lord Cregan but he predeceases him (d.157) leaving two daughters, Sansa and Serena. Lord Cregan has much younger sons, Edric, Barthogan, Brandon and Jonnel but if we follow what happened with the Alys Karstark story, Rickon's daughters are the next heiresses of their grandfather. They are obviously passed over in favour of their younger uncles. First hypothesis: To reunite these claims, Lord Cregan decides to marry his desired heir, Edric, with his eldest granddaughter, Serena. But Edric dies early and his brothers take the Winterfell throne successively. Second hypothesis: Serena and Sansa are passed over in favour of his heir Jonnel (as specified in the MUSH). Edric is the second son and marries Serena. That gives him legitimacy through his wife and he tries to take Winterfell by siding with the Blackfyre during the First Rebellion, as suggested by Lord Varys. He could even have been influenced by his wife who wanted to take what she may have considered as her "rights". But they both lose, and may try to get Winterfell after Beron's death when their children are grown-up and well connected (Umbers and Cerwyns) compared to Beron's children (young and with a mother from the Vale). What do you think? Is she our bitter woman, praying for vengeance Since the visions come to Bran in reverse chronological order this would place the pregnant woman after Dunk visiting Winterfell. Dunk visits Winterfell sometime at the end of Beron's reign. The first hypothesis would be before Beron and the second somewhat concurrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBloodraven Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Since the visions come to Bran in reverse chronological order this would place the pregnant woman after Dunk visiting Winterfell. Dunk visits Winterfell sometime at the end of Beron's reign. The first hypothesis would be before Beron and the second somewhat concurrent. Beron is the nephew of Serena. The succession struggle would have been between Serena and Beron's father (Brandon) and uncles (Jonnel, Barth). Serena and her children could definitely press again their claims when Beron died though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Beron is the nephew of Serena. The succession struggle would have been between Serena and Beron's father (Brandon) and uncles (Jonnel, Barth). Serena and her children could definitely press again their claims when Beron died though Wouldn't she be pregnant to them before Dunk goes to Winterfell? The vision of the pregnant woman was more recent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBloodraven Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Wouldn't she be pregnant to them before Dunk goes to Winterfell? The vision of the pregnant woman was more recent. Yes, definitely. But we don't know how long before Dunk came to Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_Darcy Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Wouldn't she be pregnant to them before Dunk goes to Winterfell? The vision of the pregnant woman was more recent. If the birth date, that is in the MUSH is correct, then Serena is in her sixties, when Dunk and Egg visit Winterfell, so all her births must have been a few decades before Dunk visits Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 If the birth date, that is in the MUSH is correct, then Serena is in her sixties, when Dunk and Egg visit Winterfell, so all her births must have been a few decades before Dunk visits Winterfell. So basically no, it's not likely to be Serena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Maybe the pregnant, vengeful woman was Arya Flint. Maybe our Arya inherited her love of vengeance from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBloodraven Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 So basically no, it's not likely to be Serena. Why? Care to develop? Serena doesn't have to be pregnant and swearing revenge the same time as the events of the She-Wolves of Winterfell? It happened decades earlier when one of her uncles became Lord of Winterfell. She could have tried another power grap when Beron Stark was dying though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 The visions are certainly chronological which puts the pregnant woman sometime after Dunk’s visit which should be around Beron’s death. Therefore, Serena Stark is not a likely candidate because she should be too old. I think the pregnant woman is Old Nan, who was a wildling spearwife captured at the Battle of Longlake (in 226). She trusted a crow and that crow tricked her, which is why she agreed that all crows are liars. Her vengeance should be about that crow. Also the most likely Brandon she was recruited for should be Edwyle’s half-brother Brandon Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBloodraven Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 The visions are certainly chronological which puts the pregnant woman sometime after Dunk’s visit which should be around Beron’s death. Therefore, Serena Stark is not a likely candidate because she should be too old. I think the pregnant woman is Old Nan, who was a wildling spearwife captured at the Battle of Longlake (in 226). She trusted a crow and that crow tricked her, which is why she agreed that all crows are liars. Her vengeance should be about that crow. Also the most likely Brandon she was recruited for should be Edwyle’s half-brother Brandon Stark. Oh, shit so the pregnant woman occured before the Dunk vision. Here goes my theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
three-eyed monkey Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 The timeline suggests that the pregnant woman came between Lyanna and Benjen playing as kids, approx. 275 - 280AL, and Dunk as a young knight in Winterfell, approx 212 - 220AL. Rickard was born within this window, which would make Marna Locke the woman. But personally I think it is Rickard's wife and Ned's mother, Lyarra Stark, who was pregnant with Brandon, putting it around 261AL. This is what I speculate. Willam Stark's son Edwyle is the son of Willam's first wife Melantha Blackwood. Willam also had a son with his second wife, a Glover, but Old Nan remebers this child, Brandon, died an infant. That made Edwyle Willam's heir. It seems Willam's brother Artos was also a Lord of Winterfell so he might have ruled until Edwyle came of age. Edwyle's claim must have been disputed by Willam's brother Rodrik, the wandering wolf, when he returned from his wanderings. The objection was probably on the basis that Edwyle lost his claim when his father married another, whose only child Brandon was dead, meaning the lordship should pass to Willam's brother, Rodrick. Possibly Edwyle was slain in the dispute but Rickard must have killed Rodrick in return, and then wed Rodrick's daughter, and his own cousin, Lyarra, as a means of healing the rift. Lyarra was probably unhappy to be married to the man who killed her father and it may have been a cold marriage, even by northern standards. So she prayed to the Old Gods for a son who would avenge her and kill Rickard, and in Brandon the Old Gods answered her prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.