How would you rate episode 410?

[Bryden Tully]

Good point made about this being TV-it's very good for TV, heck it's amazing for a TV series in terms of characters/plot/budget so people need to appreciate this.

Good

+Mance and Jon, I never liked Ciaran Hines as Mance but he seemed pretty decent this time, the line about killing after negotiating evoked RW feelings.

+Stannis' arrival was epic, they managed to capture the full scale of the his arrival-along with his general manner

+Brienne and Arya had a nice moment for about 5 seconds

+The hound's speech/duel went down well for me, liked the part about him being the only one protecting her. They've managed to squeeze a lot of these two characters

+Charles Dance as Tywin managed to show his quality as always, his smugness on the toilet was legendary

+Nice leaving the episode with Arya sailing away-would be tempting for them to have Tyrion's scene but this worked much better

Bad

-Jaime's motives/reasons etc seemed confused-why would he wait the night before to rescue Tyrion

-Twincest didn't work-I see why they introduced it (Tywins personal flaws, Cersei's determination) but it just seemed out of character and rushed

[The Killer Snark]

I can't find my review. It was a really long one, so I'm not going to retype it. I'm just posting in anyway to say I rated it a 10.

[Starksmustwin]

^^^

Tysha doesn't matter for the show. Having Tyrion kill Tywin because of Shae, a character the show audience actually knows is a much better plot device than having Tyrion kill Tywin because of Tysha.. a person they likely wouldn't have even remembered.

Luckily, D&D are much smarter than the average board user. Otherwise, this show would be a mess that only book readers could follow.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

That is why numerical rating is a bit silly for this show, people are not capable of rating the episode rationally when they are angry over one small detail in particular, or two. They overlook all of the good ones, almost like they are getting back at the showrunners, as if they read these forums intensively just to see how we are rating their show.

Indeed.

The many occasions this season where people have voted 10 based purely on the last scene or on the presence of a cat while they 'ignore all the bad' moments supports your argument against the system.

[yushkevitch]

i thought it was very well done, a 9 for me... i honestly don't get why or how people can rate something low because one thing they wanted/expected did not happen...

the season as a whole was just meh for me, maybe a 6 or 7, but that's based more on how many minutes they "left on the cutting room floor" over 10 episodes

You must be new here ;) The ASoIaF fanbase (or at least this forum) is full of faithful who hate on just about everything the series does differently from the books.

And the non-appearance of LS in many ways made me happy less because I simply didn't want her to appear than because I knew it would send a lot of fans into a complete meltdown. (Too bad there are no vote-downs on this forum, I think I'd have a few by now...) :)

[Faceless Man Friday]

I rate it a 10. I loved every scene. I thought the deviations from the books worked really well. Maybe its just me but I found the way the Tyrion/Jamie relationship was destroyed in the Books too much and detracted from what was to come immediately after. Same goes for Shae's death. The fight between the Hound and Brienne was brilliant and had me on the edge of my seat. I am also glad the show will not have Jolen paste. I thought that was a better way for him to die on the TV show. As many have pointed out what works well in the books does not always translate to the scene.

Speaking of what may work in the book but not on TV. Before I saw the episode I was one of the people rooting for a LS reveal. As the episode unfolded I started to root against it as I could not see how they could fit it in with the same dramatic appeal it had in the books. Maybe next season they can but maybe not. At any rate, the show is proving to be an excellent adaptation, taking what would work best on TV from the books and adding scenes to the story that fit the main theme of the books but is true to the medium of television. :bowdown:

[The Killer Snark]

There was no real space to fit in Lady Stoneheart, I think Martin jumped the shark in bringing back that character anyway, but I can sort of understand dramatically why people wanted her to feature at the season's end. The only thing that really bugged me, as I actually did say earlier, was the Bloodraven appearance. Bran gets to see in advance in the novel what he'll pysically have to sacrifice and go through at the end of his mission, and in the show he just gets confronted by an old man on a wooden throne.

Edited June 16, 2014 by The Killer Snark

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

If you compare the books to the show then you are just cheating yourself out of a very great television show. Nothing compares to the books so stop it. .

Thank you for the advice.

Out of courtesy you should know I won't be taking it. The only reason I am watching this show is because of the books. I would not be watching it had I not read them. It is impossible for me to watch without making a comparison, although I do make an honest attempt.

[Fevre River Warrior]

Ok, I was disappointed that there was no Lady Stoneheart, more disappointed than I thought I would be because it makes sense to introduce her next season in Brienne's story line...although I love the hanging of the Freys at the end of Book 3 when LS is introduced. I hope they keep that. If there is no LS next season I will be very disappointed.....I am willing to give it 9 months to see.

I loved the ending with Arya on the boat headed east to her new adventure. I thought it was a great way to end it.

I also loved the Tyrion, Shae, Tywin scenes...very well done and am interested that Varys got on the boat with him. In the books he just disappears for a long time.

I thought all of the Wall scenes, Stannis and all were very well done.

I loved Bloodraven with his 1,000 eyes and one (ok Unsullied, at least read Dunk and Egg so you know who Bloodraven is.....) and I liked Jojen's quick death over the drawn out demise in the books.

It broke my heart to see Dany chain her dragons.

I didn't like the Cersei/Tywin and Cersei/Jamie scenes, seemed like a waste of time and I loathe Cersei because she will always be the book Cersei to me even though HBO has white washed her. In the book she is as loathsome as Joffrey was and I cringe whenever I see her on screen.

I gave it a 10. Why? Because this is television folks, not academy award winning cinema, and D&D have done an excellent job. There is nothing better on television - never has been and I think it will be a long time before there will be anyting to equal it. I think people are overly critical, expecting an exceptional TV series to be perfect each and every week (according to each individual's idea of perfection).

I will miss it, waiting for season 5 to begin next April....

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

Several reasons, actually:

1) The Hound shouldn't be free and able to meet Brienne, since in the last episode he loudly declared that he had Arya Stark as a prisoner while surrounded by soldiers.

2) Brienne attitude towards the Hound and Arya, and her willingness to start a fight without resorting first to negotiation or convincing, was stupid and out of character.

3) Once Arya is missing, Brienne or Pod not going to look where the Hound is, is stupid.

4) A random meeting beween Brienne/Pod and Hound/Arya is just to random. It's a huge world, and the chances would be infinitesimal. The Hound is a criminal on the run: he should be hiding.

5) If they wanted to use the fever as an excuse for the Hound losing against Brienne, they should have mentioned it sometime, or make it more obvious.

In the books, Brienne is a skilled swordswoman BUT also gentle-hearted and averse to violence. She doesn't have the killer instinct. On the show, she's just a one-dimensional "badass" heroine. The real Brienne would never just pick a knock-down drag-out brawl on the side of the road.

[Shadowflame]

I gave it an 8. Some things were good, some bad. Tyrion's escape seemed rushed. I missed more of the dungeon scenery and him climbing the hundreds of stairs. Disappointed with how Bloodraven and the cave looked, not what I expected. Didn't like the skeleton wights. Reminded me of Jason and the Argonauts (which was good for the 60's). Didn't like how Leaf looked and the throwing of the fireballs (too corny). Didn't like the way Jojen died (he deserved a better death). I was expecting that whole scene to be better visually.

I liked Jon's scenes with Stannis, Mance and Tormund and also Tywin and Cersei. Chaining of the dragons was pretty good. All in all it was a bit of a letdown.

[sj4iy]

8

One point off for the absence of Lady Stoneheart - Arya should have had a wolf dream at the VERY LEAST seeing her body or (by this point) remembering her body.

One point off for altering Tyrion's motivations for going to Tywin's bedroom. That was SUCH A RISKY move that it doesn't make sense unless fueled by immediately uncontrollable emotions...

All else really worked for me - including the small change of Cercei's confrontation with Tywin adn embrace of Jaime, and including the Hound/Brienne interlude... so pretty happy overall

No one but Bran has had wolf dreams yet...I imagine they are saving that.

[mindingthesnow]

Also a 10'r from me! I'll explain why later...

[lakin1013]

10. This was terrific television, plain and simple. And I think Hinds is GREAT as Mance, love him. In reading most of the posts, I just do not get the folks who say that they liked the episode but there was no LS so they give it a 1. Really? REALLY? A 1? That makes no mathematical sense at all. Just saying...

[feast-of-fros]

i really liked the who Brandon sequence and thought it fit within the character of the books. it would make sense to me that there would be zombie attackers around that entrance, i am glad jojen was firebombed instead of becoming a zombie.

just because the land is vast doesnt mean there arent trading paths and footpaths that people are going to naturally meet. especially in that area you can see for minds around except for big rocks and the sound also carries. so it entirely makes sense if one duo is coming and one is going they might meet. the hound vs brienne fight was epic. a very nice addition.

Of course there will be changes. I think we just expect for those changes to:

A. Make sense
B. Be remotely comparable to the book
C. Be entertaining to watch

For me a lot of the changes have not done this. When you know how amazing this episode could've been it's a great disappointment to watch it. There are changes made for no apparent reason. They add things, taking up valuable screen time that have no point in the story line while removing things that were very much needed. They add things that make absolutely no sense. The Hound & Arya have all this vast land to cover but some how manage to cross paths with Brienne & Pod? (The two of them alone had the potential to be quite the dynamic duo but just haven't been given the script they could have) Bloodraven could've been done so much better. The whole scene with the Pirates of the Caribbean skeletons & light grenade throwing CotF was cringe worthy at best. This is HBO for God's sake. I don't buy for one second they don't have the budget to do what is necessary to make this show amazing. Instead they spend budget money on bomb throwing pixies (leaf should have looked way cooler too) They kill off characters they don't need to just for shock value I guess. Apparently they don't understand that the book has enough shock value as is. It really was beautifully written by a genius of an author IMO & D&D fall miles short of the talent GRRM has.

[taipan]

In the books, Brienne is a skilled swordswoman BUT also gentle-hearted and averse to violence. She doesn't have the killer instinct. On the show, she's just a one-dimensional "badass" heroine. The real Brienne would never just pick a knock-down drag-out brawl on the side of the road.

I would have said some of her scenes with Jaime in series 3 are anything but one-dimensional.

[boojam]

In the books, Brienne is a skilled swordswoman BUT also gentle-hearted and averse to violence. She doesn't have the killer instinct. On the show, she's just a one-dimensional "badass" heroine. The real Brienne would never just pick a knock-down drag-out brawl on the side of the road.

Never got that impression in the books , in the fight with Biter and Rorge things got nasty , I did not get the impression that Brienne had a 'genital heart' then, well she's a little one dimensional in the books, in the show she has been less so.

Edited June 16, 2014 by boojam

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

Of course there will be changes. I think we just expect for those changes to:

A. Make sense

B. Be remotely comparable to the book

C. Be entertaining to watch

For me a lot of the changes have not done this. When you know how amazing this episode could've been it's a great disappointment to watch it. There are changes made for no apparent reason. They add things, taking up valuable screen time that have no point in the story line while removing things that were very much needed. They add things that make absolutely no sense. The Hound & Arya have all this vast land to cover but some how manage to cross paths with Brienne & Pod? (The two of them alone had the potential to be quite the dynamic duo but just haven't been given the script they could have) Bloodraven could've been done so much better. The whole scene with the Pirates of the Caribbean skeletons & light grenade throwing CotF was cringe worthy at best. This is HBO for God's sake. I don't buy for one second they don't have the budget to do what is necessary to make this show amazing. Instead they spend budget money on bomb throwing pixies (leaf should have looked way cooler too) They kill off characters they don't need to just for shock value I guess. Apparently they don't understand that the book has enough shock value as is. It really was beautifully written by a genius of an author IMO & D&D fall miles short of the talent GRRM has.

Yeah, oftentimes our position is confused with just objecting to "any changes at all." Far from it. I understand that in adapting a story from one medium to another, changes are necessary. Certain things need to be cut or condensed. The problem is not the principle of change, but rather the quality of the changes. When you look at some of the pointless things they play up or even create themselves, the skimping on other parts of the story becomes harder to tolerate. And I'm not just talking about gratuitous nudity in the brothels or whatever. This past episode was boob-free, but never has the show been more rudderless. It's plain as day that the writers have no appreciation of the characters in this story. They make them dance around like puppets on strings, doing whatever they want from week to week and even scene to scene. Characterization is the greatest strength of ASoIaF, yet it's HBO's greatest weakness. The acting, costumes, and sets are superb. The writing is deplorable.

I'm sick of being called a "whiner," and having my objections to the derailing of the story I love dismissed as "nitpicking." I mean, I thought this forum was a place for fans of ASoIaF?

Edited June 16, 2014 by Anarchosaurus Rex

[OnlyOne]

I agree that this season has been the weakest, but I liked this episode. It did tie up some loose ends. I thought LS should have made an appearance if only just a brief look. My friends and family who have not read the books are constantly forgetting characters and the plots. Next season they'll be asking me "who is that?" In reference to LS. Annoying as hell. Annoying as seven hells actually;-)

[Dolores Stark]

Gave it a 10 in my head as soon as Jon said 'I know he's a king. My father died for him.' Even cried a bit there.

I literally yay-ed when Stan the man and the gang arrived, and the whole scene was amazing for me. Jon and Mel exchanging looks over fire... wow.

I think of myself as a book purist and I always point out what was not in the books to my non-reader friends, but I learned not to let it bother me, and this time I didn't mind any of it, not even the fireball throwing CotF, Skeletor WWs or whatever are they called.

I usually whine about whitewashing Cercei in the show, but I liked her scene with Jaime, Lena made me think 'Wow she really loves him' even though at this point in the books I was almost sure she never did.

Not sure what will be made of all the Quiet isle story now that Brienne and The Hound have met, but the fight was good to watch, and Arya's farewell also.

In general I think the acting was the main thing that made me give it a 10 even Emilia's which usually makes me cringe.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Dolores Stark