How would you rate episode 410?

[The Dragon Prince]

WOW!!!! This might be the best episode EVER!!!! I LOVED IT!!! 10/10

Edited June 16, 2014 by The Dragon Prince

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

this episode is way too highly rated.

Most people just give it 9 points just for being game of thrones. Like every week so far.

If we have a rating system, rate. And don't just write you loved it. The competition here is not the real housewives or Jersey Shore. The competition here is books vs series. And it sucked.

The goal is to get as near as possible to the books or make a decent epic episode. None of that happened.

Yes, exactly. The amount of "10, loved it, get a life nerds, it's an adaptation there will be changes lol" annoys the crap out of me. Yes, it's an adaptation. Yes, there will be changes. None of that makes it immune from criticism. We're way past "purism" at this point. The show is losing its grip on the story and especially its characters.

[tallTale]

Well I am glad the show is still crazy popular despite the criticism. Easily more popular than the books ever were.

[Nevada Milan]

The problem i think is they try to connect all the characters together in the show while in the books they accept its a big wide world and not every main character has to know each other or meet each other

The hound and Brienne was an epic fight scene but it was all a bit too contrived, how would they have found them so fast? the hound and Arya set out months it seems before Brienne and Pod yet they were only 10 miles behind them? It makes Westeros come across as a tiny little island.

The children shooting fire......stupid IMO

No Coldhands so Jojens demise....what about Jojen paste?

Dany and the dragons..my bf kept asking me where Drogon was and it didn't make it clear that they fly off for days sometimes and also they have shown Viserion and Rhaegal as much bigger in earlier episodes, and like both the dragons would follow her meekly i wanted to see some fire and blood

The Tyrion & Jamie scene was such a disappointment and without Vary's showing him how would Tyrion know where too go?

All in all i thought the episode was rushed and a bit of a let down, but GOT is still my favorite show and the episode was still awesome, just not as good as it could have been

[Ondskapsmannen]

Solid 10. Loved every second of it.

No Lady Stoneheart? I have read the books, and am really perplexed as to what people are getting their panties in a bunch over. This is referring to undead Cat or whatever you want to call her right? What is the problem with waiting till next season with introducing this (reanimated) character?

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

I gave it a 3.

Sorry, I just didn't like this episode. Everything beyond the Wall was solid. Arya's last encounter with Brienne was solid. Besides that, there really wasn't much.

For being one of the most powerful dramatic scenes in the entire book series, Tyrion's final scene was just... meh in this episode. I didn't feel Tyrion's dread after he basically killed her out of self defence and then said "sorry sorry sorry" afterwards. All I could think was "hail Tyrion, humble white knight of Westeros". His whole reason for visiting Tywin felt weird and contrived. Does he blame Tywin for his killing Shae? And why go up there to risk his life in the first place? I get that Tywin treat him like shit and sentenced him to death and all, but I just didn't feel his reasoning. I did in the book (with the basically crucial Tysha element that drove everything he did).

I don't understand why they added the dialogue between Cersei and Tywin.

Brienne and Sandor's fight was actually very well choreographed and enjoyable. But... why did it happen? Just for flashiness? It felt completely awkward and contrived, like they just had to fill a quota of fight scenes. How did she not find Arya afterwards? Just take a high ground and you'll see her going in any direction. It seems especially silly since Arya dwelled at his body for quite a while.

I'm sorry, but the wight attack was just ridiculous. BTW, as someone raised in another thread, why even burn the bodies if the Others can animate their skeletons? Also, nice addition of the CotF being able to throw Super Mario fireballs. I wonder how the Children lost to the First men in the first place.

Oh and obligatory "no LS". IDK, I'm not even that bothered by it. I am just very bothered that they took one of the most powerful, dramatic, morally grey scenes in the books, and completely watered it down because they had to make time for some pointless scenes. I'm okay with novel adapters using creative license and all, but it's just that every creative license they're taking is for the worse, by replacing fantastic writing with the mediocre "Dawson's Creek" style writing of the show writers.

But it's not like I'm only rating it as a comparison to the source material. I was in the middle of watching a Sopranos episode when it aired so I paused to watch it. Then I finished that Sopranos episode. It was amazing to me to see the immense difference in writing quality between the two shows, GoT is just laughable in comparison.

Forget The Sopranos or The Wire...Game of Thrones is sinking to True Blood levels of writing quality, plot intelligibility, and characterization.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Solid 10. Loved every second of it.

No Lady Stoneheart? I have read the books, and am really perplexed as to what people are getting their panties in a bunch over. This is referring to undead Cat or whatever you want to call her right? What is the problem with waiting till next season with introducing this (reanimated) character?

She hangs Freys, most people hate Freys, and it's also a big shocker. I didn't like the character in the books but I am curious to see it on the show if they ever do it, which they honestly should.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

She hangs Freys, most people hate Freys, and it's also a big shocker. I didn't like the character in the books but I am curious to see it on the show if they ever do it, which they honestly should.

Whatever one's opinion of Lady Stoneheart, she's better than so much of the material that they either chose to include or just made up. Would you rather have a vengeful revenant hanging the hated Freys in the name of the Starks, or Tyrion and Shae bickering for the billionth time?

[SM4e]

Gave it a 7. Must have been a very good episode for Unsullied, imho less so for readers.

Many changes the showrunners make feel odd and not needed.

Arya & Hound is just bullshit. Even though Lady Arryn died it's still her cousin in charge (well Littlefinger, why would the knights of the Vale let them go? Then the dialogue between Brienne and The Hound didn't make much sense, as well as Arya not intervening. The Hound's final scene was well done though (and was more like its book counterpart).

Then Tyrion & Tywin didn't feel that real. It seemed very off to me that Tyrion would kill Tywin for what he had done. It was nothing that had been developed for years, kinda strange. Also the Jaime/Tyrion relationship is very whitewashed which I really dislike; I was looking forward to their reunion in TWOW/ADOS because I was curious how both would react; now all the tension seems to be gone.

I didn't like Arya as the last scene; it was a good scene, but hell, no ending scene of a finale..

Why does Cersei tell Tywin and why is Jaime still as close to her as in Season 1?

[tallTale]

The "Lady SH" overreaction has eclipsed the "Only Cat" overreaction.

Edited June 16, 2014 by tallTale

[Greywolf2375]

The "Lady SH" backlash has eclipsed the "Only Cat" back lash.

Well, it is a different name, but it is one of the driving characters through the books. We call her LS instead of Catelyn Stark, but it is still Catelyn coming back. The exclusion of that is rather large.

She can come back mid season, but having a character like that come back and be the cliffhanger is, as shown by the books, a pretty solid ending.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Los Ticos 2014

[diaur]

Stannis scene 10/10 - that one was epic

Dany finding out about the incident 7/10 - it was great and I'm glad it finally happened, but EC's acting is still awful

Brienne vs The Hound 7/10 - I actually liked it but I kept thinking "why are we wasting our time on this" :P

Bran 8/10 - it was really cool and I was really pleased to her the line about flying BUT I wasn't very keen on the zombie fight scene :P

Cersei + Tywin scene 9/10 - I actually really liked this scene mostly because LH was amazing

BUT Tyrion + Jaime 6/10 - VERY disappointed with this one, I don't mind small changes (Only Cat/Your sister for example) but this scene seemed really rushed, like the creators realised whoops we have to do this one as well, I'm not disappointed cause we didn't get to hear certain lines but because we didn't get to hear ANY lines (just a few lame thank you and Varys helped me BS)

Tyrion + Shae 8/10 - good one, as others, I was a bit worried of how they're gonna show this but it was well done

Tyrion + Tywin 8/10 - good one too, glad they actually put Tywin where he belonged (the toilet :D) but their conversation wasn't strong enough for me (not just because of no where whores go, but it wasn't powerful considering it was a son talking to his father that he's about to kill

There were other scenes as well, I feel like we're never gonna get any season finale cliffhangers with this show and at least this one ended with Arya instead of Dany bodysurfing so that's great :)

Overall gave it 7/10, it was good with a few disappointments including no LS :(

[ipsuel]

Forget The Sopranos or The Wire...Game of Thrones is sinking to True Blood levels of writing quality, plot intelligibility, and characterization.

I never watched The Wire until now (started it last night DURING GoT -- which is very telling)... and sadly, I think you're right. It's gone so far away from/further into the books, that I think I'm just gonna stick to the books and maybe watch the rest of the series after all is said and done.

I love the casting/actors -- but the writing/direction/story departures are just awful to me.

On top of that, it's just too likely that spoilers for future books are being added to the show (Jojen, etc) -- and I'm learning just who I don't have to care about/pay attention to in the books cuz they didn't even make the show.

I don't know -- I guess at the end of the day it's just not as good, and I think it's going downhill fast -- I feel it's starting to ruin the books for me.

[King Tyrion I]

10/10

Despite the book deviations.

[Metopheles]

Yes, exactly. The amount of "10, loved it, get a life nerds, it's an adaptation there will be changes lol" annoys the crap out of me. Yes, it's an adaptation. Yes, there will be changes. None of that makes it immune from criticism. We're way past "purism" at this point. The show is losing its grip on the story and especially its characters.

It's not that people shouldn't give 10 points in general, but just going there and saying : WOW best episode ever...every week is kinda crazy. These people either didn't watch it or just heard the opening credits and "uh ah, game of thrones, I love it whatever."

People need criticism. Be it they read it or not, but we as a fandom should give a feedback and tell how annoyed we are. And not just because they fucked up a perfect moment to intro Stones, but because they fucked up GRRM's nearly finest hour. Not that they did that the first last night. Joff death was also anticlimactic. Just let him die and a scream, end credits. Next episode starts there. But oh no, we have to do it our way. Well we don't care about that. We want an adaptation. Not an inspired play.

I want grrm's book visualized, not DD's opinion on it. And I don't want people to bring in a rape scene where a love scene is.

Don't have characters say shit just for the shock, the epicness and the lulz.

Don't change perfect scenes into weirdness.

And for the viewers: If these things were done, don't give it an 9 or 10. These are things you don't like, so take away some points.

Don't say: Oh, didn't like this and that. But 10/10 like best episode ever.

Otherwise the artists will just continue the crap. We had now two horrible seasons, with season 3 being actually pretty good, just not for some character arcs. But this season was a joke.

It was filled with epic moments, game changers and plenty of stuff that could have been cut so the story moves a bit quicker into the next books, but still stops other stories to be a bit slower, like Bran.

They could have and should have cut half of the Wall scenes this season. Just have a big battle at the beginning of an season instead of having it to have in episode 9 to follow a pattern.

But this is just my opinion. Make of it what you want.

[ipsuel]

<snip>

We want an adaptation. Not an inspired play.

I want grrm's book visualized, not DD's opinion on it. And I don't want people to bring in a rape scene where a love scene is.

Don't have characters say shit just for the shock, the epicness and the lulz.

Don't change perfect scenes into weirdness.

And for the viewers: If these things were done, don't give it an 9 or 10. These are things you don't like, so take away some points.

Don't say: Oh, didn't like this and that. But 10/10 like best episode ever.

<snip>.

:agree:

I don't critique just to be a b*tch. I critique because GoT is supposed to be an adaptation of a book series I happen to love. When they do something well, I shout it from the rooftops -- but when they screw up, I'm supposed to keep making excuses/allowances over and over and over again?

I love some of the added things over the 4 seasons... but they are now going into fanfic of some sort. Back when we saw a convo of Robert/Cersei that wasn't in the books -- well, it made sense because neither was a POV and that convo COULD HAVE happened.

Now we have CoF throwing wtf-grenades, silly skeletons attacking and Jojen dead.

Not even remotely adapted from the books. Which is just silly and ARROGANT on their part.

The show runners have to take the good with the bad, like the rest of us do in our jobs -- and hopefully learn/grow from it. It's part of life! Though tbh, I don't see it improving. It's had 4 years and I don't see a magical "respect GRRMs work" attitude starting now.

[jmasca7]

I also agree...

And no LS cliffhanger might be one of the biggest blunders D&D have made.

:agree: :bang:

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

It's not that people shouldn't give 10 points in general, but just going there and saying : WOW best episode ever...every week is kinda crazy. These people either didn't watch it or just heard the opening credits and "uh ah, game of thrones, I love it whatever."

People need criticism. Be it they read it or not, but we as a fandom should give a feedback and tell how annoyed we are. And not just because they fucked up a perfect moment to intro Stones, but because they fucked up GRRM's nearly finest hour. Not that they did that the first last night. Joff death was also anticlimactic. Just let him die and a scream, end credits. Next episode starts there. But oh no, we have to do it our way. Well we don't care about that. We want an adaptation. Not an inspired play.

I want grrm's book visualized, not DD's opinion on it. And I don't want people to bring in a rape scene where a love scene is.

Don't have characters say shit just for the shock, the epicness and the lulz.

Don't change perfect scenes into weirdness.

And for the viewers: If these things were done, don't give it an 9 or 10. These are things you don't like, so take away some points.

Don't say: Oh, didn't like this and that. But 10/10 like best episode ever.

Otherwise the artists will just continue the crap. We had now two horrible seasons, with season 3 being actually pretty good, just not for some character arcs. But this season was a joke.

It was filled with epic moments, game changers and plenty of stuff that could have been cut so the story moves a bit quicker into the next books, but still stops other stories to be a bit slower, like Bran.

They could have and should have cut half of the Wall scenes this season. Just have a big battle at the beginning of an season instead of having it to have in episode 9 to follow a pattern.

But this is just my opinion. Make of it what you want.

Yeah, that's what I meant. We agree.

In any undertaking, criticism - i.e. being held accountable - is essential to maintaining and improving quality. D&D and GoT are not above feedback. We're not being "purists."

This season was a definite step backwards. Most of the storylines either lagged or even regressed. Again, fantastic acting, sets, and costumes, but serious deficiencies with putting together an intelligible plot and consistent characterization.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Whatever one's opinion of Lady Stoneheart, she's better than so much of the material that they either chose to include or just made up. Would you rather have a vengeful revenant hanging the hated Freys in the name of the Starks, or Tyrion and Shae bickering for the billionth time?

Well Tyrion and Shae has a payoff. Assuming UnCat plays a somewhat important role, it should be included. If all it amounts to is her randomly hanging a few Freys with no real effect on the plot then I suppose it could be cut, although again I would like to have it included and doubt very much it doesn't have much significance.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

:agree:

I don't critique just to be a b*tch. I critique because GoT is supposed to be an adaptation of a book series I happen to love. When they do something well, I shout it from the rooftops -- but when they screw up, I'm supposed to keep making excuses/allowances over and over and over again?

I love some of the added things over the 4 seasons... but they are now going into fanfic of some sort. Back when we saw a convo of Robert/Cersei that wasn't in the books -- well, it made sense because neither was a POV and that convo COULD HAVE happened.

Now we have CoF throwing wtf-grenades, silly skeletons attacking and Jojen dead.

Not even remotely adapted from the books. Which is just silly and ARROGANT on their part.

The show runners have to take the good with the bad, like the rest of us do in our jobs -- and hopefully learn/grow from it. It's part of life! Though tbh, I don't see it improving. It's had 4 years and I don't see a magical "respect GRRMs work" attitude starting now.

I criticize from a place of love - because I love the story so much, love the cast they've put together, and love the amount of time/money they've invested in traveling all around world and building beautiful sets. I want the writing to be worthy of all that. What really gets my blood up is that so many of the self-destructive changes they've made have been by choice, not necessity.

They whine and complain about their limited CGI budget, but then they splurge on some "Pirates of the Caribbean" skeleton fight, complete with "Peter Pan"/Leaf chucking "Super Mario" fireballs around? Okay.

They do a great job setting Jaime on his redemption arc prior to King's Landing, and then abruptly reverse course. One minute he's pining over his empty entry in the White Book, charging Brienne with saving Sansa, and lip-quivering when Brienne says "Ser Jaime" and "Oathkeeper," and then the next he's shoving the White Book off the table, hoisting up a bloodthirsty Cersei (fresh off comparing his beloved brother to a tumor to be excised), and banging her brains out. Okay.

I could go on, but it's all been said before.