How would you rate episode 410?

[Metopheles]

lol...I wish iOS knew what I meant as much as it thinks it does.

I only wish DD knew what grrm meant as much as they think they do.

boo ya.

[TheLoreSeeker]

A mix of hope and/or denial that they'll capture the books I love. I also do it to explain everything to my sister and some friends. Another indication that the show is poorly done. To the shows credit, it might be the best we'll ever hope to get but that's because this type of literature is too complex for visual media.

Understood and agreed. It could be better....but it also could be much much worse.

[TheLoreSeeker]

I only wish DD knew what grrm meant as much as they think they do.

boo ya.

lol. Yeah but lots of people here think they know what George meant. Doesn't necessarily mean any of us are right.

I'll hold off my crusade against the show until its over and the author speaks out against it. IMO if it hasn't ruffled his feathers....then it probably shouldn't ruffle mine.

[Metopheles]

lol. Yeah but lots of people here think they know what George meant. Doesn't necessarily mean any of us are right.

I'll hold off my crusade against the show until its over and the author speaks out against it. IMO if it hasn't ruffled his feathers....then it probably shouldn't ruffle mine.

He probably has a contract that binds him to say only positive stuff.

GRRM really loves his "children", doubt he likes it if DD play "Orson Lannister" with them in any way possible.

At least they killed one of their own. Shae. I so loved that. The best thing the show did, the improvement of that character. So much about her, her background and all, but then the butcher her for no reason at all.

Should have changed that plot point if they cut out the Tysha thing anyway. Save Shae and have a happy reconciliation in Pentos and meet up with Aegon, cut Penny. Would have worked so well. But no, we have to give more shock value.

[Mark of Myr]

Just re watched the episode because I had thought I saw something first time around and I did. Did anyone take a good look at Jojen's death scene? Horrible editing. During the battle Meera pushes Jojen back and out of the way. But Jojen partially recovers and is partially on his left side leaning on his left elbow and his head is facing Bran who he is looking at. There are two shots of this, "Bran, save yourself... now! He shouts. As two Skeletons pop out of the ground. Then Jojen for some unknown reason has completely changed positions, he has not gotten up, but instead has for some reason turned his feet to face Bran and laid completely flat on his back and now has to do a crunch to look at him and suddenly has lost any strength as the partially dead body slowly pulls out the knife. So why did Jojen spin around to lay flat on his back and to face his feet towards Bran rather than his head? If you watch the scene you can see there was also no body next to Jojen when he went down. In fact the Body is about 10-15 feet away from Jojen and when he falls he falls away from it.

So Jojen went down, 10-15 feet away from the body that will eventually kill him. Turns around on his side to face Bran, as the body must have slowly moved sideways towards him, turns around again to face his feet towards Bran and lays flat on his back, and becomes totally petrified from the neck down. Sit there and lets the body slowly pull it's knife, and then just lays there as as he gets stabbed, he didn't even move his arms. That is some great film work, if you are watching a B rated horror movie.

yep it just jumps to something stabbing him like he suddenly cant move plus the stabbing was comedy fast.

sorry for re quoting big post i dunno how to do this otherwise

Edited June 17, 2014 by Mark of Myr

[Davrum]

A lot of fantastic moments but just a few too many silly ones (all of Tyrion's stuff and all of Bran's stuff aside from those sweet skeletons) to rate it higher than an 8.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Davrum

[sj4iy]

He probably has a contract that binds him to say only positive stuff.

GRRM really loves his "children", doubt he likes it if DD play "Orson Lannister" with them in any way possible.

At least they killed one of their own. Shae. I so loved that. The best thing the show did, the improvement of that character. So much about her, her background and all, but then the butcher her for no reason at all.

Should have changed that plot point if they cut out the Tysha thing anyway. Save Shae and have a happy reconciliation in Pentos and meet up with Aegon, cut Penny. Would have worked so well. But no, we have to give more shock value.

How are they the ones adding shock value to it when it was Martin who wrote it that way originally? Just because they expanded the character doesn't mean they are going to change something that big for one of the most important characters. If anything, Martin was the one adding shock value to it. And he added more shock value by having the story of Tysha on top of it just to make Tyrion pissed off at Jaime.

Edited June 17, 2014 by sj4iy

[paulusar]

^{Wow 10 out of 10. I pity the poor fools who didn't enjoy it. They will never be satisfied. They really need to stop watching. They don't know what good television is.}

[Mark of Myr]

How are they the ones adding shock value to it when it was Martin who wrote it that way originally? Just because they expanded the character doesn't mean they are going to change something that big for one of the most important characters. If anything, Martin was the one adding shock value to it. And he added more shock value by having the story of Tysha on top of it just to make Tyrion pissed off at Jaime.

yep for me the ommision of Tysha added towards what i thought was abit lacklustre on what could have been the most powerful scenes so far

[needle54]

7/10

Jon's scenes were great apart from the lack of about 98,237 wildlings ( I could have done without all the skeletons for just one cg shot of a huge wildling camp in the distance)

Tyrion/Shae/Tywin great scenes and performances I can forgive the lack of where do whores go and Jaimes unfriendly parting in the book always nagged at me so that was fine.

Briennes meeting was interesting and well done for show canon Arya/Hound well performed, especially contrasting Arya to with someone good like Brienne really showed how feral and far gone she is.

Bran ... I liked Leaf's look but was bemused by her wtfbombs. I always imagined Bloodraven more 'intertwined' Bran in Hodor always feels disconnected ,shots of Brans static body just don't work for me , maybe a 'Hodorcam' like they use with Summer might make it feel more like him being controlled.

For me with cgi LESS is more, the beautiful landscapes and intergrated backgrounds are breathtaking, the wolves look great doing nothing particularly complicated, the dragons are fine in small doses and appreciated more I think that way.

The wights and white walkers in season 2 finale were way more chilling because they were people in make up or part cgi, 'almost' human grounds them in reality making them more horrifying, its the difference between watching 28 Days Later to the laughable I Am Legend.

I watched or read somewhere D&D talking about reining in the over the top violence for more gritty realism and I don't understand why they made this choice, I'm not anti-fantasy I just like it grounded in some kind of reality, in an era where the new Star Wars creative team have realised the limitations of cgi and are moving back towards make-up,puppets and models this scene really bugged me.

The best scene hands down was Melisandre/Jon probably my 2nd favourite scene all season absolutely thrilling in anticipation of Dance and beyond :)

[TheLoreSeeker]

He probably has a contract that binds him to say only positive stuff.

GRRM really loves his "children", doubt he likes it if DD play "Orson Lannister" with them in any way possible.

At least they killed one of their own. Shae. I so loved that. The best thing the show did, the improvement of that character. So much about her, her background and all, but then the butcher her for no reason at all.

Should have changed that plot point if they cut out the Tysha thing anyway. Save Shae and have a happy reconciliation in Pentos and meet up with Aegon, cut Penny. Would have worked so well. But no, we have to give more shock value.

He's said time and again though that many have approached him with ideas to make it into a movie or a show and he turned them down. He liked what D&D/HBO proposed... so he agreed.

I find it hard to believe that he'd sign a contract that says "You can't say anything bad about the show, no matter how much you disagree." Especially if he "loves his children" as much as most of us do. Especially since something like that is the 1st warning sign one a long road of bad.

And if he did....then either he doesn't think its as big a deal as some people make of it...or he actually liked the adaptation.

Edited June 17, 2014 by TheLoreSeeker

[Davrum]

yep for me the ommision of Tysha added towards what i thought was abit lacklustre on what could have been the most powerful scenes so far

That whole segment of the show just felt so flat. The motivations were muddled enough but even more than that, the physicality of the struggle between Tyrion and Shae just felt goofy. This episode had the best fight of the series and the worst within minutes of each other.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Davrum

[Ser Creighton]

That whole sequence was so bad I found it endearing, they are going on a quest to the secret tree fort to meet a mysterious wizard guy, what did people expect realism? Some are actually complaining that they didn't keep in the zombie riding the giant Elk. I thought it being cheesy sort of suited the material.

I cannot argue with this reply, well maybe with the endearing part, memorable yes. Endearing? I have to get back to you on that one. At least you didn't bring up the stump munchkin and her fire works.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Ser Creighton

[Ser Creighton]

yep it just jumps to something stabbing him like he suddenly cant move plus the stabbing was comedy fast.

sorry for re quoting big post i dunno how to do this otherwise

Delete everything between the quote boxes and type snip in it's place. But leave the boxes.

[Dolorous Gabe]

He probably has a contract that binds him to say only positive stuff.

GRRM really loves his "children", doubt he likes it if DD play "Orson Lannister" with them in any way possible.

At least they killed one of their own. Shae. I so loved that. The best thing the show did, the improvement of that character. So much about her, her background and all, but then the butcher her for no reason at all.

Should have changed that plot point if they cut out the Tysha thing anyway. Save Shae and have a happy reconciliation in Pentos and meet up with Aegon, cut Penny. Would have worked so well. But no, we have to give more shock value.

They should have had Tywin catch Shae and make good on his promise to have any whore he had in KL killed. That would have given Tyrion the necessary anger towards Tywin to find and kill him. Shae should have tried to get on the ship but get caught and never end up condemning Tyrion in the trial as that was so out of character for show-Shae.

[Relic]

^{Wow 10 out of 10. I pity the poor fools who didn't enjoy it. They will never be satisfied. They really need to stop watching. They don't know what good television is.}

zomg, the rapture is coming and they are missing it! oh noes!

i just watched this rubbish again because my friend had not seen it and we're sharing a tiny studio in paris for a few days so i can't eactly lock myself in the bathroom for an hour while she watches.. she was pretty confused by a bunch of what was going on (not unusual however). meanwhile, i just cringed for most of the episode. what the bloody fuck? The first three minutes were pretty good, and then it all goes to shit. Apart from all my other gripes how the fucking shit does Arya run into Brie in the middle of some shitty fucking hills located at what looks to be the dreary asshole of the world? Talk about DUMB luck, And what the fuck is up with J&T?

"Hey im here to rescue you!"

"oh cool i guess this is goodbye!!!"

**kiss kiss***

"ok bye!"

"wait!....thank you...for my life!!"

"ok byes"

ugh. this is what aSoIaF would look like if it was written in twitter posts.

[jarl the climber]

I cannot argue with this reply, well maybe with the endearing part, memorable yes. Endearing? I have to get back to you on that one. At least you didn't bring up the stump munchkin and her fire works.

My first thought on her was, what is Peter Pan doing in a GOT episode? The fire works reminded me of Monty Python, wheres the killer Rabbit and how many of these holy hand grenades does she have on her?

[Mr. Sven]

I thought this was the worst episode of the season. I ended up giving it a one, but I'll probably end up raising it a couple points later, since even though I very strongly disliked the episode there are a quite a few worse shows out there that are more deserving of a one.

Anyway, I absolutely hate cgi, I found the Bran scenes to be quite tedious since it was mostly cgi. I've never seen the appeal, it doesn't look real at all it just looks ridiculous. As for Bran's actual story I was ok with them killing off Jojen since I think he's probably dead in the books too, and he's not particularly important at this point. I wondering what they're going to do with him next season since they don't have a ton more to work with. I figure they'll go into Blood Raven's history, which I like, but I don't think the show writers can write particularly well so I'm worried about that. I'm also worried that the writers may get ahead of the books for this storyline.

I was fine with them changing the story to have Brienne and the Hound fight, but I didn't like the actual scene. The reason being is that I hate the rapid cuts that happened every two seconds. Rapid cutting does not equal dramatic tension. It just takes away from the realism of a scene. How can you suspend your disbelief when every second there's a cut? I mean I know that the director's can't pull a Bela Tarr and have every shot be a really long take, but they could at least lengthen the shots a tiny bit. I watched True Detective for the first time after the episode and thought that they could do what they did. They did do a long take in an earlier episode, I forget which one but it was the opening shot when the wildlings attack Molestown, so hopefully they move more in that direction.

As for Stannis's scene apart from what I mentioned above I don't have too many complaints, at least relating to this episode. I don't like how the show's portrayed him, but I'm hopeful we'll get to see him in a different light soon enough.

Anyway what angered me the most about this episode was Tyrion's scene. I mean he didn't get angry at Jamie, he killed Shae in self defense? Normally I don't really mind the whitewashing of characters, since this is tv after and they need to make the characters more likeable, but this greatly upset me. Tyrion's whole thing is that nobody but Tysha loved him, who hasn't been brought up in years(?). Having Shae try and kill him does play into that thought, but having him not get into a fight with Jamie takes away from it. What better way was there for them to show Tyrion's transformation into a much darker person than by having him kill Shae in cold blood? Anyway I just feel like this whole thing was critical to Tyrion's emotional state in the next book, so the change really does bother me.

Also when I read the book I had gotten the feeling that Varys had wanted Tyrion to go and kill his father, did anyone else get that feeling or was I totally off on that?

It wasn't really a big deal for me that they left out Lady Stoneheart. I figure we'll get to see her early next year anyway, maybe through Arya's accidental warging! Also, it's quite possible that they had wanted to film a scene with her but there may have been some sort of scheduling conflict we don't know about. Does anyone know if that was the case? Of course, I would have preferred it this season as not only was the perfect cliffhanger but I think it would have had more of an emotional impact as the final shot of the season. The farther we get from the Red Wedding the less impact the scene will have.

Anyway since I've forgotten most of the other stuff I intended to write about I'll mention one more quick thing. I've disliked a lot of other episodes this season, but this episode, unlike many of the others, lacked some sort of redeeming scene or an interesting shot (the weirdwood tree doesn't count), which is why I, at least for the moment, have it rated a one. This whole season has been disappointing, in retrospect the episodes I've actually liked really only had one or two scenes that elevated the episode, while the rest was mediocre at best. I really hope that next season they turn it around, but I don't have a ton of hope in that regard.

Edit: Sorry to everyone who takes the time to read through my poorly written rant and all the errors in it.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Mr. Sven

[Mark of Myr]

it also felt like the time between jamie suddenly freeing tirion and him doing shae / twin was almost the same as the 2 dudes talking to Kahleesi which was far less important. was all abit rushed for such an important scene / chapter

[Rattleskirt]

6 because no Tysha. Stoneheart I can deal with and the Hound Brienne fight is worth a 5 by itself. But Jojen dying coupled with them fucking Tyrion/Tywin/Shae makes it a 6.