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How would you rate episode 410?

How would you rate episode 410?  

1,079 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      60
    • 2
      21
    • 3
      23
    • 4
      27
    • 5
      62
    • 6
      76
    • 7
      122
    • 8
      179
    • 9
      248
    • 10
      259


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I criticize from a place of love - because I love the story so much, love the cast they've put together, and love the amount of time/money they've invested in traveling all around world and building beautiful sets. I want the writing to be worthy of all that. What really gets my blood up is that so many of the self-destructive changes they've made have been by choice, not necessity.

They whine and complain about their limited CGI budget, but then they splurge on some "Pirates of the Caribbean" skeleton fight, complete with "Peter Pan"/Leaf chucking "Super Mario" fireballs around? Okay.

They do a great job setting Jaime on his redemption arc prior to King's Landing, and then abruptly reverse course. One minute he's pining over his empty entry in the White Book, charging Brienne with saving Sansa, and lip-quivering when Brienne says "Ser Jaime" and "Oathkeeper," and then the next he's shoving the White Book off the table, hoisting up a bloodthirsty Cersei (fresh off comparing his beloved brother to a tumor to be excised), and banging her brains out. Okay.

I could go on, but it's all been said before.

Amen. And may I add that, included in the self-destructive changes -- are random additional scenes/dialouges that simply don't work with the characters/storylines.

What bothers me most is the audacity that they clearly really believe they're improving on his story. It's just a complete head-shaker to me.

And it's kinda heartbreaking because I want to love every episode... ASoIaF is my go-to series; I've done more re-reads than I care to admit, so I WANT to love GoT. :-(

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I criticize from a place of love - because I love the story so much, love the cast they've put together, and love the amount of time/money they've invested in traveling all around world and building beautiful sets. I want the writing to be worthy of all that. What really gets my blood up is that so many of the self-destructive changes they've made have been by choice, not necessity.

They whine and complain about their limited CGI budget, but then they splurge on some "Pirates of the Caribbean" skeleton fight, complete with "Peter Pan"/Leaf chucking "Super Mario" fireballs around? Okay.

They do a great job setting Jaime on his redemption arc prior to King's Landing, and then abruptly reverse course. One minute he's pining over his empty entry in the White Book, charging Brienne with saving Sansa, and lip-quivering when Brienne says "Ser Jaime" and "Oathkeeper," and then the next he's shoving the White Book off the table, hoisting up a bloodthirsty Cersei (fresh off comparing his beloved brother to a tumor to be excised), and banging her brains out. Okay.

I could go on, but it's all been said before.

God, THAT. It's like they didn't READ Jamie's chapters in the next book(s). What EXACTLY are they going to do with him next season cause his whole arc was just given the 180.

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(-) No Tysha, no Stoneheart, cheesy fireballs, videogamish skeletons, lack of wildlings, so-called 100,000 looks like 100 at best for me, it's easy, cheap CGI nowsdays - wide shots with ant-like troops and Tyrion/Jaime kiss (brocest?)



(+) Brienne/Hound fight (suddenly), Jon's mourning over Ygritte (suddenly), Dany's mourning over dragons (suddenly), Maise as Arya


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God, THAT. It's like they didn't READ Jamie's chapters in the next book(s). What EXACTLY are they going to do with him next season cause his whole arc was just given the 180.






Apparently send him of to Dorne on some A-team type mission.


Edited by White Harbors Wrath

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Unsullied fans obviously thought this episode was awesome. If you don't know the story is better. Of course.



It was a good episode, but it disappointed somehow. D&D managed to screw up what could have been the best season finale in TV history.



I don't know where they're going with the story at this point. I would suggest not getting your hopes up for LS appearing or an awesome finale again (S1 finale has yet to be topped).

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I agree with previous posters and I would just add to what I have already said that it is obvious that some actors are as confused by unnecessary changes as we are. It was especially obvious in Charles Dance/Peter Dinklage last scene. Confusion all around. I understand D&D must be overtired, but one cannot write/produce/direct such a series without losing one's inspiration and strength. They should listen to feedback and get other fresher people to take over a baton that they find to be too much. I sometimes feel for actors who are all brilliant all the time despite of silly things they have to do. Season 1 was the best because it was a good adaptation. Season 4 is mostly a fanfic. It is confusing even for book readers, because we don't know what can be classified as foreshadowing of TWoW (Jojen's death?) and what is a straight forward invention (some deaths on the Wall).


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Amen. And may I add that, included in the self-destructive changes -- are random additional scenes/dialouges that simply don't work with the characters/storylines.

What bothers me most is the audacity that they clearly really believe they're improving on his story. It's just a complete head-shaker to me.

And it's kinda heartbreaking because I want to love every episode... ASoIaF is my go-to series; I've done more re-reads than I care to admit, so I WANT to love GoT. :-(

It doesn't get much more Orwellian than for D&D to say that their changes - the stupid, time-consuming, and ultimately confusing "Romeo and Juliet" cliche between Tyrion and Shae, for instance - are in accord with the real spirit of the story, or whatever. So what does that make the books, then? Chopped liver? Are they not the real story or something?

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Even with the NBA final this episode did not suffer from episode 9, another viewer record breaker.

Just FYI.

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Apparently send him of to Dorne on some A-team type mission.

...of course.

I agree with previous posters and I would just add to what I have already said that it is obvious that some actors are as confused by unnecessary changes as we are. It was especially obvious in Charles Dance/Peter Dinklage last scene. Confusion all around. I understand D&D must be overtired, but one cannot write/produce/direct such a series without losing one's inspiration and strength. They should listen to feedback and get other fresher people to take over a baton that they find to be too much. I sometimes feel for actors who are all brilliant all the time despite of silly things they have to do. Season 1 was the best because it was a good adaptation. Season 4 is mostly a fanfic. It is confusing even for book readers, because we don't know what can be classified as foreshadowing of TWoW (Jojen's death?) and what is a straight forward invention (some deaths on the Wall).

Out of the 10 episodes for S4, D and D wrote 7. They need to bring in another writer or two...they're stretching themselves too thin, I think and it's really starting to show in the treatment of some character arcs.

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Apparently send him of to Dorne on some A-team type mission.

It wouldn't surprise me if he completely replaces Ser Arys Oakheart.

Out of the 10 episodes for S4, D and D wrote 7. They need to bring in another writer or two...they're stretching themselves too thin, I think and it's really starting to show in the treatment of some character arcs.

I couldn't agree more. Plus, if they had more writers working on the show, they'd have more people to bounce ideas around when it comes to approaching things. Limiting themselves to a handful of writers (mostly just the two of them) is starting to hurt them I think. Edited by Caerl Targaryen

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It wouldn't surprise me if he completely replaces Ser Arys Oakheart.

I have a strong suspicion that is the plan

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On top of that, it's just too likely that spoilers for future books are being added to the show (Jojen, etc) -- and I'm learning just who I don't have to care about/pay attention to in the books cuz they didn't even make the show.

THIS. I have been thinking of this more and more. For example, the pleasant goodbye hug between Jaime and Tyrion -- WHAT? But maybe the writers already know that Jaime and Tyrion will never see each other again so why not? I also note screen time varies so then I wonder if Stannis is being slighted because he never really figures into the endgame or he dies. Watching the show is now a calculated risk in that my attention is being drawn either to, or from characters whose end is being telegraphed. I would very much like to find someone at fault but the writers have a very popular show on their hands and they must move forward with plots and with the ending in mind. GRRM can certainly produce his books in his own time, but we are at a curious moment here, where the screen can spoil the book.

By the way, Ipsuel - I also have never seen The Wire and started it today!

Edited by lakin1013

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Gave it a 5. The season started strong, but hell, that finale was a let-down.


I can't understand the sudden 180 degree change in Jaime - Cersei's relationship AGAIN and don't know how they gonna set them up for their arc in the next seasons.


I can't understand how they could totally screw up the privy scene. (in my opinion)


I can't understand why they portray Stannis so bad.



I mean, the books ARE good. They don't HAVE to be changed, just for the sake of changing things, and that was the impression I got.


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I have a strong suspicion that is the plan

On one hand, I think that's a logical change simply because it would result in them using an existing character. Viewers are already invested in Jaime as a character. It would also save them money and screen time. On the other hand, it would completely change his character arc. During season 1 I would have thought they could pull off that big of a departure. Now I'm not so sure.

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Gave it a 6/10.



It was basically a solid episode, and considering the writers and directors involved that surprised me the most. That said, Alex Graves seriously doesn't know what he's doing. The cinematography in the Mance/Jon scene just didn't work and felt amateurish. I get what he was trying to do, but he took it way too far.



This episode SHOULD have been an easy 8/10, but they missed a lot of the cool moments from the books.I understand this is an adaptation and things have to change, but the fact of the matter is that the show is better when they stick closer to the books and not when they have a pissing contest with GRRM.


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snip

snip

I bet the guy that wanted Michelangelo to make the creation scene in the sistine chapel did not tell him to add fat little baby angels with lutes and flutes, or that Adam should be placed on a cream cloud.

But the adaptation turned out wonderful, even though it is only loosely based upon the original story.

But if I want a painting of Sleeping Beauty in the rose covered castle, I don't want the castle to have black bricks and is haunted and the witch is just an evil monster and she is covered in devils and the sky is black and lightning everywhere.

Sometimes make a change for the better (Cersei and Tommen scene in Blackwater) and sometimes just stick to the books.

It is hard to determine what will be good, but I think cutting half the plot, yet extending it over ten episodes and then cutting out all the awesome stuff...

Edited by Metopheles

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Well, D and D do say they are the creators of the show and George books are only used as "based on"

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THIS. I have been thinking of this more and more. For example, the pleasant goodbye hug between Jaime and Tyrion -- WHAT? But maybe the writers already know that Jaime and Tyrion will never see each other again so why not? I also note screen time varies so then I wonder if Stannis is being slighted because he never really figures into the endgame or he dies. Watching the show is now a calculated risk in that my attention is being drawn either to, or from characters whose end is being telegraphed. I would very much like to find someone at fault but the writers have a very popular show on their hands and they must move forward with plots and with the ending in mind. GRRM can certainly produce his books in his own time, but we are at a curious moment here, where the screen can spoil the book.

By the way, Ipsuel - I also have never seen The Wire and started it today!

Lol, Stannis is one of the ones I'm wondering about as well. I love him/Davos -- and I'm starting to get the feeling that he just doesn't play into the bigger picture the way I thought he would (from reading). I'm not sure I want to sully my reading, no matter how long the books take, for the TV show -- it's a strange place to be in.

Omg, I hope you'll love it. I just started it, and it's great so far!

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On one hand, I think that's a logical change simply because it would result in them using an existing character. Viewers are already invested in Jaime as a character. It would also save them money and screen time. On the other hand, it would completely change his character arc. During season 1 I would have thought they could pull off that big of a departure. Now I'm not so sure.

I think that helps the keep him busy while eliminating a whole plethora of only temporarily useful characters in the Riverlands arc.

-They don't have to cast the Riverlands characters

-They can avoid Lady Stoneheart

-Keep Jaime in the story and somewhat active (whats he going to do all of season 5 otherwise, pout over the White Book and bang Cersei?)

The only real hole that leaves is Brienne and her losing her end purpose w/ LS...but they can easily just have her move onto the Vale...which MIGHT be why they advanced Sansa so fast...to make room for future meetups that need to happen sooner.

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I feel sorry for grrm the most.



Disappointing the fans is one thing, but butchering a masterpiece and the life's work of someone, that is unacceptable.


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