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How would you rate episode 410?

How would you rate episode 410?  

1,079 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      60
    • 2
      21
    • 3
      23
    • 4
      27
    • 5
      62
    • 6
      76
    • 7
      122
    • 8
      179
    • 9
      248
    • 10
      259


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I gave it a 9, because there's no option for 9.5. Second best episode of the season, previous one was the best.



The best moment was the Tyrion & Tywin scene, when that music started to play...goosebumps.



And, when someone reduces his score for ep because a some book scene is missing, well, that's just a wrong. That just shows the twisted purist score, not how good ep is in it's own right.



This gives some respective how good this episode was: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/game-of-thrones/s04/e10/

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To all those people complaining that the series is veering too far away from the books and thus doing a disservice to the writings of GRRM I would say two things:



1. The books are really no great literary masterpieces. The original premise was good and the first book excellent although still no paragon of great writing. GRRM and his writing over the years has become more and more a caricature of themselves and he is actually not that far off becoming a bit of a dirty old man if I'm honest. As such I don't have a huge issue with the TV series veering away from the literal original. This leads me on to...



2. The TV series is going to catch up with the books way before GRRM gets around to finishing them at his present rate of writing and the scriptwriters must have an option to finish off the story, presumably based upon GRRMs literary plans (if he has them). Therefore I can understand if the TV series is going to do its own thing in placing the characters ready for the denouement. I'd also like to add that in my opinion the books have been going steadily downhill ever since the first, as if GRRM doesn't actually know how to end the story. Maybe his best bet is to work with the scriptwriters to bring it to a conclusion then finish off the books based on the TV show.



My problem is that in many cases the variations from the books quite often relate to issues that I found fundamental to the written story. Rarely do they improve the narrative for me. More and more I am coming to judge the TV series as just that, a TV series. An adaptation, based on a book rather than a literal translation of the book. As that I would still give it a solid 8/10 for the story so far.


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772 votes, 7.56 average, 8 median, 7.78 normalized average, 82% "fresh"

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How many people are in the world? What does that even have to do with it lol.

I agree plenty of people dislike it...but more like it than dont. More is a majority. Thats how the world works, because thats how money is made.

Not sure what the total population of the US really has to do with itthough when its one of the all time top rated shows.

Plenty of people on the forum also like it...

The fact that people like it does not mean that it could not have been done better. I like it too, but I feel certain plots could have been handled better and people would like it even more.

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To all those people complaining that the series is veering too far away from the books and thus doing a disservice to the writings of GRRM I would say two things:

1. The books are really no great literary masterpieces. The original premise was good and the first book excellent although still no paragon of great writing. GRRM and his writing over the years has become more and more a caricature of themselves and he is actually not that far off becoming a bit of a dirty old man if I'm honest. As such I don't have a huge issue with the TV series veering away from the literal original. This leads me on to...

The books not being great in some people's mind is no excuse for portraying differently, and often times poorly. GRRM may just be "a dirty old man" to you, but what does that make the showrunners? If we're name-calling these writers I could think of a few choice words... sexist homophobic frat boys, for instance. arrogant simpletons, maybe. They've achieved no great literary masterpieces either, and with the praise GRRM is getting he's a lot closer than they have.

The only other renown I've seen either of the show runners have is more like infamy than fame. David Benioff is known by X Men fans to be the one who ruined the character of Deadpool (according to comic fans I know.) It could easily have been the other screenwriter involved, but based on characters like Daario, Locke, and Xaro, I'm willing to bet it was him.

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5 of 10 -- not as bad as episodes 4, 5, 6, and 8, but not actually "good", so it gets an "unfresh" score from me. And that's rating it just a tv series -- I'd give it a '1' as an adaptation of the books.



The writing was weak-to-mediocre, and (as with many episodes this season), it seems like the writers didn't even read each others' episodes, which makes book deviations retroactively more painful.



Last episode ended with Jon deciding on his own to kill Mance, but this episode he says to Mance, and later to Davos and Stannis, that he was sent. In the books, he was sent, so that makes sense, just it invalidates the change made last episode.



The Stannis scene was weak on its own, as well -- Mance notes that Stannis isn't dressed for the North, but nobody thinks to ask why he just happened to show up.



Then, Cersei telling Tywin about the incest, but Tywin not believing it even though he explicitly told Jaime to father children named *Lannister* a few episodes back.



And Cersei seducing Jaime, even though she's been saying "things have changed" all season, and Jaime going for it even though he's already figured out that she's a "hateful woman"...the show skipped giving her any dialog for a few episodes in a row, but it would be nice if there was some connection between the Cersei in the first five episodes with episode 10 Cersei.



Dany's court scenes were pretty weak -- I understand this show is complex and doesn't have time to discuss real world issues such as wage slavery, but it's probably better not to mention things than give Barristan two lines of "stern fatherly warning" about the subject. Also, episode 1 made a big deal out of paying 3x price for goat kids burnt by dragons, maybe the show could have made this scene have some emotional impact by making Dany assume it was a goat at first...I know, that's the way "the books did it", but what does Martin know about writing for tv that D&D don't know better...lol



The chaining of the dragons was done well -- after Dany said that Dragons aren't slaves last season, it was sad to see her lock collars on them. I guess freedom is for people only (sort of kidding).



Bran & company's fight scene was beyond ludicrous. The Tree interior was pretty good, minus Bloodraven being underwhelming.



I liked the concept of the Brienne and Hound scene, but the writing was (like the previous Arya/hound scene at the Bloody Gate) bloody awful. The combat was good, though. Better than the Mountain and the Viper, but that's not really saying much.



Tyrion...yech. Rescue was rushed, no real emotional impact despite the actors trying hard, and why/how did Tyrion figure out he could get to the Tower of the Hand from just a few steps out of the dungeon? Not sure why/how Shae was there (then again, the show didn't explain how she got to the trial when she was supposedly sent away, so maybe the fault was with a prior episode). Disappointed that the show made Tyrion killing Shae be in self defense.



The scene with Tywin was ok...I wasn't disappointed that Tysha was left out, I just wish they had left her out of seasons 1 and 3 as well...it just felt weird to have the setup, but not deliver.



The ending was ok, but there was a disconnect in the dialog like maybe a line got cut or somebody copied part too slavishly from the books without getting the whole scene. Arya offers to pay or work for passage North, gets turned down, and says she has something more, to which the captain says something about more silver not helping. She didn't mention silver before, she just talked about paying (and people do buy things with gold), so this just struck me as really awkward writing/directing. But the overall scene was good.



OFC, I didn't like skipping Lady Stoneheart, especially as the cast (Lena) had basically said it was happening. I don't care that much about LS, but it was a hopeful (for Starks at least) ending of ASOS, and definitely would have ended the episode better than Arya heading to Braavos. But, if they're cutting all the rest of the Riverlands, it's probably for the best.



And my biggest gripe...no closure for Asha/Yara. Seriously, the Season 3 finale had a big Pulp Fiction "getting medieval on the Boltons" speech, and we got a whopping *one* scene in the middle of the series that completely failed to do any justice to the build up from the finale. I guess, in that respect, it's a good thing that this season finale didn't really promise anything, so at least next season's failures will all be local to that season.


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To all those people complaining that the series is veering too far away from the books and thus doing a disservice to the writings of GRRM I would say two things:

1. The books are really no great literary masterpieces. The original premise was good and the first book excellent although still no paragon of great writing. GRRM and his writing over the years has become more and more a caricature of themselves and he is actually not that far off becoming a bit of a dirty old man if I'm honest. As such I don't have a huge issue with the TV series veering away from the literal original. This leads me on to...

2. The TV series is going to catch up with the books way before GRRM gets around to finishing them at his present rate of writing and the scriptwriters must have an option to finish off the story, presumably based upon GRRMs literary plans (if he has them). Therefore I can understand if the TV series is going to do its own thing in placing the characters ready for the denouement. I'd also like to add that in my opinion the books have been going steadily downhill ever since the first, as if GRRM doesn't actually know how to end the story. Maybe his best bet is to work with the scriptwriters to bring it to a conclusion then finish off the books based on the TV show.

My problem is that in many cases the variations from the books quite often relate to issues that I found fundamental to the written story. Rarely do they improve the narrative for me. More and more I am coming to judge the TV series as just that, a TV series. An adaptation, based on a book rather than a literal translation of the book. As that I would still give it a solid 8/10 for the story so far.

I don't think anyone thought the books were masterpieces. We all just liked the story of them. I also don't think people have a problem with changes, everyone know that there needs to be some changes for this to work for tv. The problem is that the last few changes they've made haven't been all that good, at least thats what I think. I remember liking some of the changes they made in prior seasons, like with Arya in season 2.

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Time is needed to tell an intricate story.


HBO,


2 hour episodes from here on out, M'Kay?.


There is no way to squish the rest of this story, in a 30 hour nut-shell.


It's too girthy!



I loved the primal scream of a Berserker,


as Brienne brought forth every ounce of strength, bashing The Hounds face with a handy rock.


Life, or Death.



Tyrion, choking out Shae with a rope of gold.


A gift from Tywin for her role in the trial?


Justice.



Loved the Poker-faced fatalism of body language by Varys, as Castle Bells rang their fury.


He may be the one to tell Tyrion a few more family secrets featuring Jamie..


Nothing better to do on a long voyage, but polish skeletons.



Have fun with it.


It may be ugly and full of warts.


but it's the only adaptation we'll ever get.


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Tyrion, choking out Shae with a rope of gold.

A gift from Tywin for her role in the trial?

Justice.

It was the necklace Tyrion bought her a couple of seasons back.

The justice was in 'the next whore I find in your bed, I will hang'.

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Ahh, didn't recognize the big ol' twist of gold.


Still, I enjoyed the out-come of the proceedings.

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Book to screen changes are inevitable. Some are good, but some can be rotten. And I think everything in the pacing of the North of the Wall stuff in this episode was just sloppy, a lazy way of shoehorning in new points of interest/going out with a bang.



In particular, squeezing most of the major culmination of Bran's story - the revelation of Jojen's death, the children of the forest/and the discovery of the three eyed crow into just a few minutes of this episode felt like they really threw away what, for me, was one of the most amazing bits of book. In terms of book to show chronology, I think pretty soon they are going to run out of his material, and may have to start either not showing Bran or inventing stuff. Whichever way, it seems they have diminished Bran, just as they have diminished Sansa.



I really think they should have spent more on making the three eyed crow look impressive, and made it the last scene, rather than the rather cheap looking little boat they had Arya sailing off to Bravos in.



I also wish that they hadn't squeezed Stannis into this episode -- his arrival would have really improved the rather drab Battle of Castle Black in Ep9. Again, it looked cheap, especially the aerial shots, and that bit when the cheap CGI horse ran down the pointless wildling between Mance and Stannis.



For me, it wasn't an awful episode, but it was a bad finale. This episode really encapsulates how S4 has struggled with pacing - there was much too much stuff going on here, and not enough in some of the middle episodes.



It's a meh from me.


Edited by BrienneofQarth

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Skeletons and fire bombs looked so silly.

The fire bombs were lame.

I'm not sure why everyone is complaining about the skeletons though. Could've done without the hands popping out of the ground to grab at ankles, but other than that they looked amazing. Better than the dragons, giants, or any other special effects we've seen yet.

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The fire bombs were lame.

I'm not sure why everyone is complaining about the skeletons though. Could've done without the hands popping out of the ground to grab at ankles, but other than that they looked amazing. Better than the dragons, giants, or any other special effects we've seen yet.

To me it was a tad too OTT and corny. Normal wights would have worked just fine as well and any extra CGI $ could have been spent on making direwolves useful this season.

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They lost the wow factor by having Stannis go under it first, otherwise I'd agree.

I think they could have cut the thing where Stannis does it. It would have been more powerful with Arya going under it, as she is the character that constantly talks about Braavos and going there and the Titan and all.

They could have had Stannis just be in the Iron Bank, would have had same effect.

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I think they could have cut the thing where Stannis does it. It would have been more powerful with Arya going under it, as she is the character that constantly talks about Braavos and going there and the Titan and all.

They could have had Stannis just be in the Iron Bank, would have had same effect.

I loooved Stannis going under it and another classic 'don't care' moment from him.

But then again I do not really care about Arya

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I loooved Stannis going under it and another classic 'don't care' moment from him.

But then again I do not really care about Arya

agree with both of them.

I lost count how many times I rewatched just the portion of Stannis going under the titan, mostly the music and the cgi(not really stannis)

And I could give a f about Arya, as she became plain boring after series 2 or book 2, but still, the Braavos stuff belongs to her.

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I think the episode was an 8. I did want to see Lady Stoneheart and Coldhands. Also, Bloodraven could have looked alot better and more like the tree and him were one life form.


Is it just me, or does it seem that all the evil fuckers that die, never really get it as bad as they should? Its always very underwhelming in the show IMO.


I thought that the Stannis scene could have been done better and a little longer.


They could have also shown Balon Greyjoy get his as he is crossing the bridge between keeps on Pyke.


As far as im concerned, they still have much content from ASOS to cover next season while entering into the Dorne and Pyke storylines, so as long as WOW comes out within the year, they will not catch up to the books until 4-5 more seasons.


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