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How would you rate episode 410?

How would you rate episode 410?  

1,079 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      60
    • 2
      21
    • 3
      23
    • 4
      27
    • 5
      62
    • 6
      76
    • 7
      122
    • 8
      179
    • 9
      248
    • 10
      259


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this episode is way too highly rated.

Most people just give it 9 points just for being game of thrones. Like every week so far.

If we have a rating system, rate. And don't just write you loved it. The competition here is not the real housewives or Jersey Shore. The competition here is books vs series. And it sucked.

The goal is to get as near as possible to the books or make a decent epic episode. None of that happened.

Why? The tv show is one thing and the book series another. The show is not for book readers only. Get over it.

Edited by r2d2

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Why? The tv show is one thing and the book series another. The show is not for book readers only. Get over it.

the show wants to be asoiaf, so I review it as such.

Accept that.

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Then don't watch it. It's an adaptation. A superb adaptation most of the time but it's never going to perfectly replicate the books. 'All' they have to do is film the books is an idiotic statement to make. TV and literature are two completely different mediums. Bottom line though, if you want to preserve the purity of the books in your imagination then stop watching the show.

That's the problem, its NOT a superb adaption most of the time in the past season or two.

Seasons 1-2 are reasonably solid and consistent, but starting somewhere in season 3 the butterfly effect of their small changes started becoming bigger and bigger.

People have listed all the points better than i can, but there are so many ridiculous ommisions and alterations, that calling their work a 'superb' adaptation sounds like a bad joke.

Oh yes, not agreeing with you is a "philosophy".

I liked other episodes better than BW, and I've seen others state the same. Not all of us are fans of watching everyone sitting around and talking about dying and being raped for most of the episode. It was interesting the first time, but doesn't make for a great rewatch. It's still a good episode, I just have other preferences.

Personally, I like "Winter is Coming", "Baelor", "Watchers on the Wall" and "Rains of Castamere" better.

You should re-read my post, I never said disagreeing with me would be classed as philosophy, so your premise is flawed.

So you'd put Watchers on the Wall before Blackwater? Oh dear, oh dear, that says alot.

I'll be sure and rewatch Blackwater for the 45 minutes of 'we are going to be killed and raped' talk. Of course hidden within the small amount there really was you even got character developement i.e. Cercei would have a better chance of sleeping with Stannis horse ... ergo Stannis is a stoic, slightly sexless, joyless, driven man who only cares about his goals, as opposed to say his brother Robert who loved a good tumble between the sheets.

The Hound, Sansa, Joffrey, Tyrion, Cersei, Stannis and even minors like Davos, Shae, Bronn, Lancel all get character moments in Blackwater. Oh, and I'd rather have 45 minutes of 'dying and rape' talk than even a second of that excruciatingly awkward sex talk between Sam and Jon.

Of course you do get so many important character moments in Watchers ... like Ygritte, Jon, Sam, those other underdeveloped one's who have just enough characterisation to recognizably die.

At least they cap off the episode with the critical moment of the entire sequence, Stannis appearing and ... oh sorry i forgot, they fucked up the pacing and decided the first 15 or so minutes should be filler and they could just leave out the proper end to the entire destination point of that arc, oops.

Good call.

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That's the problem, its NOT a superb adaption most of the time in the past season or two.

Seasons 1-2 are reasonably solid and consistent, but starting somewhere in season 3 the butterfly effect of their small changes started becoming bigger and bigger.

People have listed all the points better than i can, but there are so many ridiculous ommisions and alterations, that calling their work a 'superb' adaptation sounds like a bad joke.

At least they cap off the episode with the critical moment of the entire sequence, Stannis appearing and ... oh sorry i forgot, they fucked up the pacing and decided the first 15 or so minutes should be filler and they could just leave out the proper end to the entire destination point of that arc, oops.

Good call.

You complain about omissions and changes and then also complain when they are true to the books. In the books, the NW fight off the Wilding attack. The next day Jon goes to Mances camp. While talking to Mance, Stannis attacks. That's how it goes down in the show as well! You obviously have no idea about pacing or screenwriting in general as adding the Stannis scene would have ruined the climax to 'The watchers on the wall'.

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I'm not running around anywhere, just bored with seeing people bitch about 1 ratings when plenty of people give things 10. If 1 is irrational than so is 10. If it's clearly not the worst episode of TV ever, it's also clearly not the best. If someone though that was perfect, they're lying to themselves, delusional or have very low standards. I loved the episode, it wasn't a 10.

Again with the 'clearly'. So I'm delusional and irrational because I gave it 10? I'm not saying it is flawless but I did love the episode. People 'bitching' as you put it is one thing but you are just downright insulting suggesting if someone rates the episode 10 has 'low standards'.

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Again with the 'clearly'. So I'm delusional and irrational because I gave it 10? I'm not saying it is flawless but I did love the episode. People 'bitching' as you put it is one thing but you are just downright insulting suggesting if someone rates the episode 10 has 'low standards'.

You just said you're not saying it's flawless, but still gave it a 10. Thank you.

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You just said you're not saying it's flawless, but still gave it a 10. Thank you.

I can give something 10 because it's entertaining. If you don't like the show and are so easily bothered by other people's opinions why on Earth are you on a FANboard, just go.

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Why? The tv show is one thing and the book series another. The show is not for book readers only. Get over it.

In principle I have nothing against show adapters using creative license. After all, it is a different medium; things that worked in a book series may not work on a show. That's fine.

The problem comes when the show writers are clearly inferior to the book writer. It's a problem when you have a book writer, whose writing is amazing and comparable to writers of some of the best shows ever made (like The Wire and Breaking Bad), and then the book is being adapted by writers who could get no further than teen dramas on kids' networks.

Take this, for example. Remember this season, when Brienne and Pod saw Hot Pie? Now, that was a unique creative approach by the show writers (as it hadn't happened in the books), and I'm okay with that. They needed to speed up Brienne's plot and that was a great way to do it on the show. Kudos.

But then let's remember that actual scene. Hot Pie bores them by rambling on about kidney pie which Brienne is clearly irritated by. But then, outside (after Podrick suggests to her that they don't inquire for Sansa by name, because it would be dangerous), Hot Pie approaches them and says that he saw Arya. While he starts telling the story, Brienne looks impatient and says "the quick version!" See, the show writers are still trying to make her culturally relevant by being annoyed by the fat kid who talks about kidney pie, but they do it while she just got this miracle fucking lead about Arya that she couldn't have even dreamed about before. In the books, Brienne was barely getting scraps of info from all the pubs she visited, and any time she got something that even sounded remotely relevant in the loosest kind of way, she would squeeze every bit of information she could, in the most thorough possible way (as anyone should when looking for people on the Kingsroad). But because the show has to be culturally relevant to teens who get annoyed by fat kids, instead of sitting Hot Pie down and hearing every possible detail he could, she just says "the quick version please" and makes some haphazard baseless decision with Podrick afterwards. To top it off, she threw it in Podrick's face after he told her not to tell people Sansa's name... completely ignoring the fact that Podrick is completely right and, in the more likely scenarios, throwing around Sansa Stark's name to random pub people would have ransom-hungry brigands going on their own searches. But she uses that wonderful 12 year old logic of "it worked in this one miraculous case, so it must be the better option", even though book Brienne was smart enough to know from the get-go not to use Sansa's name directly.

This is bad writing. It is the kind of writing that doesn't care about character consistency, and is even willing to make the characters bleeding idiots who are completely incompetent in their own task, just to make them more sassy and culturally relevant. GoT has been filled with this kind of writing ever since the show had become massive, and the producers changed their perspective on the audience that is viewing it. I don't care that they changed Brienne's plot arc from the books in that scenario, but I very much care that they switched the amazing writing from the source material with their cringe-worthy teen drama fitting writing. And it's just a massive shame to us "book purists", as you call us, that one of the best pieces of fantasy literature could have been adapted to a show whose writing is on par with the titans (The Wire, etc), but instead, has writing on par with what we would expect to see in Twilight. And those of us who see the show with the filter that can differentiate which writing points can be credited directly to GRRM and which can be credited to the show writers, we see that these writers are riding off the success of GRRM and if they even attempted their own show, it would crash and get cancelled after less than a single season.

Edited by Bridgeburners

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I can give something 10 because it's entertaining. If you don't like the show and are so easily bothered by other people's opinions why on Earth are you on a FANboard, just go.

I'm not bothered by peoples opinions of the show, that is the place for this...argument, discussion, fawning, whatever. I happen to love the show, that's not the point.

Someone else here seems to be insulted by others opinions...me saying someone has low standards does not indicate fact. I wish I had that much power. it's just as much BS or opinion as anything else. Sorry if it's striking a chord.

My argument was with people being shocked that so many people gave the episode a "1", when very few if any people seem shocked when people give a show a '10' then admit that it has flaws, regardless of the scope of the flaws...minor or major.

10, is like 100%, complete or perfect...something that's flawed is not complete or perfect. I'll drop it, the point is "clearly" missed.

Edited by White Harbors Wrath

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Jon going to kill a guy without his sword was a climax?

You don't take a weapon with you when you are going to parley- he would have NEVER made it near Mance with the sword on because they would have taken it from him immediately (or simply killed him since he would have been armed).

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I'm not bothered by peoples opinions of the show, that is the place for this...argument, discussion, fawning, whatever. Someone else here seems to be insulted by others opinions...me saying someone has low standards does not indicate fact. I wish I had that much power. it's just as much BS or opinion as anything else. Sorry if it's striking a chord.

My argument was with people being shocked that so many people gave the episode a "1", when very few if any people seem shocked when people give a show a '10' then admit that it has flaws, regardless of the scope of the flaws...minor or major.

10, is like 100%, complete or perfect...something that's flawed is not complete or perfect. I'll drop it, the point is "clearly" missed.

It's closer to a 10 than it is a 1.

And there is nothing...absolutely nothing...that is perfect- yet critics are known to give movies 4 stars. Different critics could give the same movie 3 stars. Who is right? It all comes down to your personal opinion. If you thought the movie was the best thing ever, you would of course agree with the first set, while anyone who had an issue with it would agree with the latter.

Basically, there's nothing to 'understand'. You may not agree, but some people thought it was the best or one of the best episodes of GoT they've seen and rated it appropriately. Just because you didn't feel that way doesn't mean those who gave it a 10 are wrong.

Edited by sj4iy

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You don't take a weapon with you when you are going to parley- he would have NEVER made it near Mance with the sword on because they would have taken it from him immediately (or simply killed him since he would have been armed).

Agreed. He did say he was going to kill Mance or try. Point being it was pretty anti-climactic. it was a 48 minute episode with a weak climax. Stannis' 10 minute scene could have quite easily been added creating a pretty epic cap to an an otherwise excellent episode and giving the finale a whole lot more room to breathe.

Edited by White Harbors Wrath

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10/10.

+ Removal of Tysha and "Where do whores go" tedious and overused line

+ Removal of "Tywin Lannister did not in the end shit gold." Tywin is one of my favorite characters and I'm happy the show has portrayed Tywin without Tyrion's jealousy/hatred-filled glasses.

+ Removal of Lady Stoneheart. Resurrection of characters ruins books. When the author pulls this sort of stunt, it removes the emotional impact of character death.

+ Removal of the scene where Tyrion is a dick to Jaime after finding out more of the truth about Tysha. I loved that they ended the scene with their brotherly bond intact. I could use a happy moment between brothers, I'm sure others could as well. This show is in need of happy moments every now and again

+ I think the right emphasis was given about Stannis swooping in out of nowhere, intentions mysterious. He's not really a golden hero like Dany, his scenes shouldn't in my opinion play out the same way as her

+ Addition of the Children girl throwing fireballs

+ Ending Dany's plot with chaining the dragons. I love the ambiguity that GRRM uses about dragon use- they were cute and fun and controllable as baby dragons, as teens? older kids?, they act like….dragons, not trained pets. There is no good answer to solving the dragon problem. I firmly believe that without dragon books or dragon magic or outside help, dragons are virtually uncontrollable. (Yes Dany rode Drogon, but she's hardly barking commands while he fireballs the other army by this point)

+Ygritte's funeral. I cried when she died in the books

- except Tysha was not removed. They included that piece of backstory all the while making Shae into a more likeable and empathic character. I think it's a shame you don't appreciate the subtleties of Tyrion's character and how he became the kind of person he is, much of which was shaped by the Tysha experience. The problem however is not that they removed the Tysha reveal, it's that they built up Shae's character and then still had her do what she did. Having changed her, things should have happened differently in the end. I personally think Tywin should have made good on his promise to have any whore he had in KL killed, setting off Tyrion's rage.

+- I will accept that Tyrion making this jest after what had just happened was unlikely given his state of mind. However, while Tywin is a great character he is not a pleasant man. I don't think there was a major difference in the book portrayal and the show portrayal. His actions have at times been despicable (as in the case of Tysha).

- this is why Martin made any magic come at a cost. Beric's resurrections come at a cost each time and Lady Stoneheart is not who she was previously. Let's not forget here, Martin has mentioned how he believes Gandalf should never have returned in LotR. He's smart about how these magical events affect people. Also, why include the Thoros/Beric resurrections in the show if there is to be no Lady Stoneheart? If you change things, you have to change it enough to make it work on a different level.

- again, Tysha is massively important to Tyrion. Some people, the show runners included, seem to love Jaime. It's fine that they changed that to keep Tyrion and Jaime's closeness but it's problematic that they don't have a real reason for him to go bonkers and kill his father. I don't think finding Shae in Tywin's bed is quite enough and having her there in the first place is against the character of Shae they have built up over the seasons.

+ agreed on the sequence beyond the wall. It was possibly the best sequence of the episode and agree on the rest of the points. I shed a tear for Ygritte, though I missed Jon's line about getting her to Maester Aemon as it makes Jon seem more desperate to keep her alive than he seemed in the show. It seemed a half-hearted "we'll go back to the cave".

I'll say this again. When D&D change the characters as they did with Shae, they should really be giving them different paths. It didn't make any sense for show-Shae to act the way she did.

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~~Tyrion learning about Tysha makes him quite unhinged. He and Jamie parted as loving brothers. It just messes up the future arcs.

not necessarily, it could simply move the timeline on that... with 3 more hbo seasons and 3 (or 4) more books, they may be simply getting to where they need to go a little earlier than the books... they already know things we don't

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So stop reading them?

This kind of comment is exactly what I was referring to when I talked about the dialog on these pages has been reduced to the equivalency of Youtube comments. I see nothing to respond to here but snarkiness.

Please also enlighten us on your opinion of those who rate the show a 10 when it clearly was not absolutely flawless and perfect.

At the very least, if you enjoyed everything...but didn't feel the scenes were rushed due to trying to cram 10 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag you're lying to yourself. The very highest rating this episode should have received is a 9. As good as it was, it was not flawless.

Why do people get worked up about seeing a 1, but not a 10? it's only peoples opinions.

Most of the episodes this season rated a ten for me. The reason being is that I am a decades long fantasy devotee, and the thrill of a loving adaptation of the genre and the wide scale acceptance of the it are things that I have been waiting a lifetime to see. I watch every single episode through these lenses. A show that deals with, and takes seriously the content, has the highest standard of acting in the industry, contains sets as exquisite as this, and is given the highest budget in television is nothing short of miraculous to me. This show is so far beyond anything that I could have dreamed of as a child, that I sit every week and watch it in amazement.

For this particular episode, I loved every single minute that I saw on my screen, hence I gave it a 10. I am perfectly aware that my perception is somewhat askew, but with the ratings and adoration this show receives from people, my loving it is far less off the mean than the people who rate this show as the worst thing that they have seen on television,

What is the most pathetic thing here is being disheartened by someone else's opinion of the show you say you like. If the show is as good as you think, why is your love for it so fragile? Where's the confidence in the stuff you like? I really dislike the show very much, but if I loved it, my opinion would never be disturbed or shaken by the ratings that 46 watchers gave to it. I adore the books, on the other hand, and on book sites like goodreads.com there are always people who heavily criticize ASOIAF and call it pure rubbish, but my love and respect for the books is never disturbed nor shaken by that.

What disturbs me is the level of inane babble that I have seen out of people on this site. I have been a member here for only three years, but I have been reading these pages since GRRM linked them from his website in 2000. I have never minded disagreeing with someone here that can pose an insightful and logical debate about their perspective. Every year that the show has gone on has led to more and more people just ranting. I know that the major source of discord is that the show deviates from the books, but to be perfectly frank, I am completely surprised that some of these people know how to read based on the level of literacy in their posts.

I am not talking about everyone here, there are several people that dislike this show and express it in ways that I can respect.

Edited by ¡Hola lionel messi

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I gave it a 9 though it probably was more of an 8. I mean the production value is supreme but it's so hard to separate my expectations as a book reader with my tastes as a TV watcher. I'm not angry about no appearance of Lady Stoneheart, but I'm a tad disappointed. I suspect she'll be brought in later.


I really liked Stannis' arrival. In fact, dare I confess...I felt more excited about his arrival and conquest there on the show than in the books. I'm not keen on Stannis in the books. His insistence for self importance and self rightious arrogance makes me want to punch him in the balls.


All in all the episode was really good, I must confess at the end it felt a bit lacklustre for me. My non book reading husband thought it was the bomb though so.


Edited by Nymeria-of-Royne

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I gave it a ten.

Departures from the book really don't bother me, I was entertained for every moment of watching this episode.

Only downer as far as I'm concerned is having to wait so long for season 5.

Sure, I'd have like to have seen Lady S but overall it was top telly.

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A 10 for Episode 10. I really enjoyed it. It made me emotional and anxious. Sure, there were things I was hoping would happen ( you know, from the books), but I am still pleased.



The dragons being locked away really got to me. I felt for Dany. She broke me, and I know this broke her. She had to do what she had to do to be an effective leader, a good leader and I admire that about her. I just think this was the most crushing thing she had to do.



And Arya, was just.. was not phased, emotionless, no speck of pity or mercy in her. Hun, you do you!



Jon, I love you.



Stannis, lighten up. ( I know he can't because that's his character)



Cersei, girl, get over yourself.



Tywin, HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!



Tyrion, I don't blame you. it was years of abuse and neglect. Godspeed.



Mance, I think you and I can have some wine and intellectual conversations.



Brienne, the path to hell is paved with good intentions. But, you the da bomb!



And Podrick, just.. go stand over there. just kidding, Pod, you serve people well, and you're learning. *pats him on the head*






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