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How would you rate episode 410?

How would you rate episode 410?  

1,079 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

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      60
    • 2
      21
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      23
    • 4
      27
    • 5
      62
    • 6
      76
    • 7
      122
    • 8
      179
    • 9
      248
    • 10
      259


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IMO. Brienne made Jame Lannister look a fool, the hound should be a walk in the park. I loved that scene. I hated the way he just whimpered out in the book, at least he went down swinging.

Jaime had been kept in chains for a very long time, so he was in a fairly poor state when he fought Brienne. Brienne is meant to be extremely good but Jaime name-checks The Hound as someone who could beat him in the books. Personally, I would say The Hound's festering wound in the neck was a factor. It wasn't mentioned in the scene but preceding episodes have alluded to its effect on him.

I gotta say, I try hard to avoid letting changes from the book affect me. If they want to change a few things, that's fine, but they have to recreate the story to fit some of these changes. D&D's problem lately is that they're making changes to characters and events that mean certain dialogues and events taken directly from the book don't make much sense. GRRM carefully plotted out his characters that their motivations are explainable by life events that made them who/what they are. D&D have to follow through and change major plot points if things are changed that mean what happens in the books doesn't fully make sense. Tyrion needed more of a reason to confront Tywin. Shae, having built her character up and made her feelings for Tyrion genuine, needed more of a reason to give a false testimony against Tyrion and Sansa. Having a book-portrayal Cersei who never truly loved Jaime but instead wanted to be Jaime then out of nowhere admit her incest to Tywin and proclaim their love. There are many similar instances.

D&D need to work to a plan of their own and stick with it. I have a sneaking suspicion they genuinely only had a plan to reach RW and thought no further. Now they're stuck trying to find a way to cut down AFFC and ADWD with a new plan that doesn't entirely fit with their old one. Although, if Tyrion's next phase is the same as it is in the books, it won't make much sense that he and Jaime parted on such good terms.

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Bloodraven I didn't hate, however in the scene preceding him the line "the power that moves them is powerless here" is just terrible and totally amateur stuff,

Kevin, haven't you read any literary fiction? Write: 'The Power that moves them is powerless here' - and you have the opening quote for an essay. You could get 20 different meanings out of that...... ;)

I'm only teasing. :) Even though I'm a show lover, I cannot say that Dave and Dan thought of anything as deep as that. Although they did give us that Beckett reference in the episode with Arya and the dying farmer...... ;)

You are right about the thousand eyes and one, though. In the light of BR having two eyes, keeping that line in as a shout-out to the book readers made little sense.

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Damn good, 7/10. I'm not that bothered by most of the things other book readers are crying about. I was never that convinced they'd have LS, and none of the omissions or additions bother me.



Love the books for what they are, love the show for what it is, and it's faithful enough to the books for my taste, given the obvious constraints.


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Rated it a 9. Enjoyed it. I've felt an extra buzz throughout the entire season this year which I didn't feel as much with past seasons. I think that's mainly because there's so many vital moments in ASoS2/Season 4 as opposed to the usual big event in episode 9.



Did feel like I was watching an episode of Doctor Who during Bran's scene with the children of the forest though.


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I'm rating it a 9. I think it's my favorite one of this year.



I have problems with Cersei + Jaime's scene. She was never ballsy enough to confront her father and she didn't have those romantic feelings for Jaime anymore in the books. Jaime's feelings also had dimmed at this point.



The second thing that bothers me is the missing Tysha reference. It's pivotal to know why Tyrion turns so dark and pessimistic in ADWD's time frame. Tysha is too important to replace with Shae- in Tywin's final moments of life.



The best surprise of the show was Stannis's beard. Damn I LOVE it!!


Edited by Lady of Long Lake

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9/10. it was entertaining and I liked it. I'm excited to see Arya in Braavos so her ending scene was good for me.


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Well, I was in the middle of a very lengthly reply when it suddenly went "poof" (damn my clumsy fingers). So I'll just summarize by saying that I really enjoyed this episode a great deal and rated it a 9. To me, it is easily one of the best season finales that we've seen from the series thus far.



I loved nearly everthing about this episode, in particular the performances of Rory McCann (I can not overstate how very much I loved his performance this week, it was quite simply awe-inspiring), Maisie Williams, Ciaran Hinds, Kit Harington, and believe it or not, Emilia Clarke (I knew that she had it in her, we've seen it before way back in season one. Thank goodness that she finally showed some emotional range this episode, it couldn't have come at a better time).



I also appreciated the fact that we finally got to see Stannis looking kingly (the wonderfully shot sequence of Team Stannis descending on the wilding camp certainly helped), with Davos by his side as it should always be, and with no Mel in sight. His acknowledgement of Jon Snow as Ned's son, and of Ned as being an honorable man was the icing on a very long awaited cake.



Despite the impact that Tyrion and Jaime parting on loving terms will potentially have on both of their characters' development, I have to confess that I actually kind of liked this change; the way that they parted in books has always left me feeling rather depressed, and with such a dark overall saga, I do find myself appreciating the infrequent bright spots, show manufactured or not.



The only reasons that the episode ended up not being a 10 to me include the rather silly exploding fire balls hurled by the child of the forest (now really, what exactly were they supposed to be -- some kind of alternate universe version of an rpg??), Jojen's death being rather unlamented, even by his sister once she got inside the cave (seems a bit OOC), and the final Tyrion - Tywin face off not quite matching its incendiary potential (Charles Dance's Tywin has been so incredibly dominant a character throughout his run that it pained me to see him going out so meekly).


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A 10 in my book. They managed to surprise me in good ways and executed the necessary predictable sequences very well. I did miss Tyrion not saying "You always were quick to grasp a situation". Beautiful understatement and harsh given the situation.

Edited by rmholt

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Cinematography and soundtrack don't make up for poor storytelling and bad book-to-screen adaption.

@Jon Black, while I do look for certain changes for spoilers (Sansa in the Vale, Melisandre and Arya's convo after the Gendrynapping [which by the way, I thought was a brilliant idea]]) I don't think that guarantees spoilers because they do have the power to deviate from the book's ending too, which I'd prefer now. It'd give an author the chance to have different endings (i.e. have his cake and eat it too) and it'd lessen the fact that it's been an overall poor adaption of the source material.

I agree with the possibility of different endings for some characters. Just not the major characters or themes.

The one thing I must say is that way too many people underestimate how smart these people are that are running and producing the show. The know what they're doing. It may be a quasi-chaotic process, but you have to give them some respect. Do we really know or even think these folks who are paid millions are 'just throwing things together' without any purpose or direction. This poor assumption is, in my eyes, is the biggest mistake folks make when criticizing the show.

Edited by Jon Black

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LOL, people need to realize there are going to be changes from the book, stop rating a show based on that. It was a great episode. Imagine if you didn't read the book how amazed would you be right now

Couldn't agree more. I read the entire series before the show was even on and I love the show. Think about it this was way people: You are getting two stories for the price of one.

When the next book comes out, you'll be able to enjoy it as it is. For now you're getting to watch a seperate yet similar story. That's how I view it and it works for me. . .

Edited by Green Knight

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I loved nearly everthing about this episode, in particular the performances of Rory McCann (I can not overstate how very much I loved his performance this week, it was quite simply awe-inspiring), Maisie Williams, Ciaran Hinds, Kit Harington, and believe it or not, Emilia Clarke (I knew that she had it in her, we've seen it before way back in season one. Thank goodness that she finally showed some emotional range this episode, it couldn't have come at a better time).

Despite the impact that Tyrion and Jaime parting on loving terms will potentially have on both of their characters' development, I have to confess that I actually kind of liked this change; the way that they parted in books has always left me feeling rather depressed, and with such a dark overall saga, I do find myself appreciating the infrequent bright spots, show manufactured or not.

The only reasons that the episode ended up not being a 10 to me include the rather silly exploding fire balls hurled by the child of the forest (now really, what exactly were they supposed to be -- some kind of alternate universe version of an rpg??), Jojen's death being rather unlamented, even by his sister once she got inside the cave (seems a bit OOC), and the final Tyrion - Tywin face off not quite matching its incendiary potential (Charles Dance's Tywin has been so incredibly dominant a character throughout his run that it pained me to see him going out so meekly).

I agree with all of the above except for your take on Tywin's demeanor. Think about it. If you were sitting on the porcelin throne with a very pissed off imp pointing a crossbow at you, I'm pretty sure you'd be timid too. I don't care how much of a bad-ass you are. . .

As far as Jaime and Tyrion parting ways friends, I felt the same way. I really like these occasional bright spots in the show that the book seems to lack. It gets depressing after a while to go so long without a little bit of positivity.

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The one thing I must say is that way too many people underestimate how smart these people are that are running and producing the show. The know what they're doing. It may be a quasi-chaotic process, but you have to give them some respect. Do we really know or even think these folks who are paid millions are 'just throwing things together' without any purpose or direction. This poor assumption is, in my eyes, is the biggest mistake folks make when criticizing the show.

I have praised them where they deserved it (in the post you quoted of mine I used the word "brilliant.") Occasionally in a burst of impassioned typing, I might jab at their intelligence, but I know they're not slackjawed yokels. I know they've read the books. I know they're enthusiastic fans just like us.

My problem with them is the liberties they take that seem self-indulgent, and their seemingly poor interpretation of the characters.

For example of the latter, in a recent interview they called Tywin a "lawful neutral." I don't take too much stock from the character alignment grid because I find it too limiting, kind of like a Myers-Briggs test... but no one who has read these books with decent understanding should ever call Tywin lawful neutral. If anything fits him, its lawful evil. In that interview they were saying that its only from the Stark perspective he is the villain. I agree to an extent that there were two sides to the war and neither was wholly good or evil, or but that's just plain whitewashing of Tywin's character. Or if they were talking about the Tywin of "their" story, the show, I still do not like it because they had to change him to make him "lawful neutral."

Changes are necessary. No book reader will dispute this. We are not opposed to any and all changes. These are changes I like (Locke's reason for cutting off Jaime's hand, Jon's reason to Mance for turning cloak, Gendry for Edric.)

But a lot of the time their changes make little sense. Arya and Tywin's screen story. Dany's whole season two arc, and I mean whole season. the characterization of Renly and Loras (if it weren't for Oberyn in S4, I'd insist that the show runners are major homophobes.) The complete drop of Tysha last week. The interpretation of Stannis and the role of Melisandre. The infamous Talisa Maegyr. much and more.

When changes happen that are basically the complete opposite of the books, I have a problem with it. Why make an adaption of books when you're going to change the story? I really suspect the answer is because they want credit. They want to change the story just enough so they can get praised other than just bringing the already-praised books to screen. It reeks of self-indulgence and fan-fiction.

And I really try to like Bryan Cogman's episodes.. but when Selyse is turned into Mad Woman Bertha with Baby Jars and Asha Yara stages the dumbest attack on the dreadfort but runs away from like three dogs, I lose faith in him too.

Edited by LordStoneheart

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Kevin, haven't you read any literary fiction? Write: 'The Power that moves them is powerless here' - and you have the opening quote for an essay. You could get 20 different meanings out of that...... ;)

I'm only teasing. :) Even though I'm a show lover, I cannot say that Dave and Dan thought of anything as deep as that. Although they did give us that Beckett reference in the episode with Arya and the dying farmer...... ;)

You are right about the thousand eyes and one, though. In the light of BR having two eyes, keeping that line in as a shout-out to the book readers made little sense.

Its just... I write for fun, and certainly not with the consistency of the people running this show, and yet the first thing I do on a proofread of a chapter is remove the instances where the same word, or a variation of it are used in quick succession. I cannot even fathom how something with so large a team let that line slip.

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I like the series but am often disappointed in it. This episdoe only rated a 5 in my opinion.



As I said previously I hated to see the Hound be killed off. He could be a terrible person like when he murdered the family that helped them. But he could also do surprisingly good things. To me he always reminded me of a big bear with a thorn in a paw, always grumpy.



Shae's death was deserved but I was disappointed that they had her turn bad and testify at the trial without showing any good reason for her to do it. (Did I miss something?/ Did the book explain why?)



Sansa was another one that changed from a sweet meek thing into a brazen lying female. I'd rather see what caused her to change so much. Give me a little character development at least so the changes make sense....



The young boy with the fireballs seemed totally out of place for this series.



I know this will get a lot of hate from the board but I am not a fan of Arya. The character just leaves me empty and I could care less if she lived or died.




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