Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

How would you rate episode 410?

How would you rate episode 410?  

1,079 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      60
    • 2
      21
    • 3
      23
    • 4
      27
    • 5
      62
    • 6
      76
    • 7
      122
    • 8
      179
    • 9
      248
    • 10
      259


Recommended Posts

"Blade Runner" and "The Princess Bride" are iconic movies, yet they are not good adaptations of the source material.

Blade Runner, which is one of my favourite movies, bears very little resemblance to Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

So yeah, if that's fanfiction, I don't really care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You haven't read my critique then, because all the things that you mention were not a part of it. You deliberately ignore that the snow is an adaptation of a series of books. That's your thing. But, you have no right to criticize people who expect the show to be an adaptation of the books, because it IS HOW IT HAS BEEN ADVERTISED. Nitpicking is one thing. Altering or endangering the overall plot and outcome of the series is quite another. And GRRM has been warning this may happen if they continued down their own path. Now it is happening and many people, myself included, are not happy about it.

No, I haven't read every single critique in every thread. I'm not that massochistic.

The very MEANING of adaptation means that something is CHANGED to work better in a different environment. Changed. It's the very essence of the word. Where are you getting that it ever meant "strictly adheres to the source"?

Edited by sj4iy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, we all have to praise the show and can't critique it at all? Even for omitting things/adding new scenes to the point where certain scenes make no sense or are illogical?

What makes no sense or is illogical? Nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blade Runner, which is one of my favourite movies, bears very little resemblance to Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

So yeah, if that's fanfiction, I don't really care.

I love that movie, as well. I don't care if someone called it fanfiction, because it's great fanfiction XD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blade Runner, which is one of my favourite movies, bears very little resemblance to Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

So yeah, if that's fanfiction, I don't really care.

I love Blade Runner. Read the book later and wasn't keen on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What makes no sense or is illogical? Nothing.

To name just one example from Episode 10:

What made Tyrion go to the Tower of the Hand to confront his father? He was not in a murderous black rage as he was in the books, having not been told the truth of Tysha. Why does Shae, the happy happy lover whore he has fawned over for 3 seasons attack him for no apparent reason other than him being there? The show really played up the romance and now the scene makes no sense. She attacks him completely out of nowhere. Why would he risk the freedom that he had just been won at such a great risk by Jaime? There is a much clearer motive in the books. And furthermore, how does he even find the tower of the hand using the complex network of underground tunnels? Does he just spend hours popping his head up through random doors until he strikes lucky?

There are other scenes they have added which are illogical that I wont go into.

Edited by HelenaAndTheMachine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again sj4iy, you never answer the primary concerns book readers have with the direction of the series. It's less about omitting particular lines and very minor subplots and rather that they've chosen to create unnecessary filler and original scenes that are actually alerting the primary narrative in a way that places the show in jepordy of going so far off the rails that it no longer bears resemblance to the source material. For instance, having Bronn take over Ilyn Payne's role as Jaime's sparring partner was a very understandable and successful change. Even the the Brienne-Hound fight can be understood, as it likely won't throw either character arc too far off course from where they need to go. What we're concerned about are unsettling things like Jaime possibly going to Dorne, the Greyjoy brothers being cut, Lady Stoneheart being cut, Varys going east with Tyrion, (taking over the role of Ilyrio I assume?) The time spent with made up subplots like Missandei and Greyworm could have been better spent fleshing out characters they've neglected using actual material from the novels. While the show might not be fanfiction, I don't see why you're so blind to legitimate criticisms of the work and our concerns over where the television show is taking the series. The butterfly effect that the author himself is concerned about should be a concern to you as well, and yet you continually act like bookreaders are just butthurt that our favorite lines are cut. (Not that these aren't somewhat legitimate, as many lines would have complimented much of their admittedly excellent dialogue)


Edited by Thelastactionhero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To name just one example from Episode 10:

What made Tyrion go to the Tower of the Hand to confront his father? He was not in a murderous black rage as he was in the books, having not been told the truth of Tysha. Why would he risk the freedom that he had just been won at such a great risk by Jaime? There is a much clearer motive in the books. And furthermore, how does he even find the tower of the hand using the complex network of underground tunnels? Does he just spend hours popping his head up through random doors until he strikes lucky?

There are other scenes they have added which are illogical that I wont go into.

The technicalities of how he got there are so minor and inconsequential that you can't really criticize it (most likely, he remembered it from the map that Varys gave him in 'Blackwater,' or he explored the trapdoor at some point during his time as Hand of the King). This is the definition of nitpicking.

His motivation is a murkier question, but it's not "illogical." He's not thinking straight – he's been in a cell contemplating his own death for several days now, and he knows Tywin has the power to stop it. Everyone saying "oh, it's not Tywin's fault that Tyrion's getting executed, he has no reason to be angry with him" is failing to understand the mentality of a man who's just been sentenced to death by his own father. It's perfectly understandable that he would make the impulsive decision to follow a nearby passageway he knows leads to Tywin's chambers.

ETA: Also, adaptations aren't fan-fiction. That's ridiculous. The story of ASOIAF is as much theirs as it is GRRM's right now. You can disagree with the changes (I disagree with a whole lot of them, especially the ones in this episode) but this labeling is just getting ludicrous.

Edited by Haldir Monark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To name just one example from Episode 10:

What made Tyrion go to the Tower of the Hand to confront his father? He was not in a murderous black rage as he was in the books, having not been told the truth of Tysha. Why does Shae, the happy happy lover whore he has fawned over for 3 seasons attack him for no apparent reason other than him being there? The show really played up the romance and now the scene makes no sense. She attacks him completely out of nowhere. Why would he risk the freedom that he had just been won at such a great risk by Jaime? There is a much clearer motive in the books. And furthermore, how does he even find the tower of the hand using the complex network of underground tunnels? Does he just spend hours popping his head up through random doors until he strikes lucky?

There are other scenes they have added which are illogical that I wont go into.

His father just condemned him to death, is it not enough to confront him? And then Tyrion found Shae in Tywin's bed, another reason to kill Tywin (who called her a "whore" twice) the hypocrit saying in his face that he deshonored the family with whores while he was doing the same thing.

As for Shae, she betrayed Tyrion because he left her for Sansa, and because Cersei forced her to make a testimony against him (it's the same in the books)... In the bedroom, she knew he was gonna be mad at her.

As for the door, how is it different from the books? Tyrion climbs the stairs in the darkness and find his father's appartments...

Nothing is illogical, it's just you who can't accept little changes. Don't watch an adaptation if you don't accept that the books are adapted...

Edited by The Eunuch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are people still pretending that D&D are good writers? Because they're not. Unless people are just plain forgetting the Talisa debacle and Tywin and Arya's dumb plot.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

God, since 7 seasons is still the plan, can we even imagine one season for Feast and Dance, one season for Winds, and one season for a Dream of Spring? I'm more concerned than ever now. 8 seasons I think they could do it, but 7?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An adaptation is a general term used when you bring anything from one medium into another. Nothing indicates that there should be fan fiction.



I believe you mean rip off.. Shakespeare's oh so amazing Romeo and Juliet is a rip off of one of the metamorphosis stories of Ovid. Pyramus et Thisbe. Same premise, but different setting and names..still same outcome and slightly different action. The ending has a different meaning though.




Adaptation(film) is not really an adaptation of The Orchid Thief. It includes the names, the book, but a complete different plot and pot...



Titanic is not an adaptation of Titanic really. I mean it has the ship, the people, the cause, but it has a total fanfic with the Hope Diamond being on the ship and owned by someone else..and yeah..the invented people in it.


Basically this is where GOT is going.


It still has the same setting, the same people..but there are new people as well...and new plot points..


The end is still the same. The ship sinks.



Harry Potter is an adaptation. A real purist even.


Percy Jackson is an adaptation. But even here some good stuff was cut out and changed, but the feeling is still nearly the same.




Some recent changes in the plot felt like Inglorious Bastards. fanfic of real existing people, but having deaths way before they really die and have stuff added to them that really wasn't fitting.


They used characters and names, but completely invented a story.


So its not really an adaptation of the end of WWII


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are people still pretending that D&D are good writers? Because they're not. Unless people are just plain forgetting the Talisa debacle and Tywin and Arya's dumb plot.

Yeah, well…

Honestly, stop it with that. I'm fine with critiquing, but just stating categorically that the show/writers are bad isn't going anywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the shoe fits.

I will call them good writers when they prove themselves so. You cannot dispute that their major deviations are extreme dumbing down of the books.

Bad writer does not mean unintelligent. They can be clever. But much of that is adapting superior writing. Their original takes are much more often than not plain bad writing. Orson Lannister sends his regards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You haven't read my critique then, because all the things that you mention were not a part of it. You deliberately ignore that the snow is an adaptation of a series of books. That's your thing. But, you have no right to criticize people who expect the show to be an adaptation of the books, because it IS HOW IT HAS BEEN ADVERTISED. Nitpicking is one thing. Altering or endangering the overall plot and outcome of the series is quite another. And GRRM has been warning this may happen if they continued down their own path. Now it is happening and many people, myself included, are not happy about it.

Look at where we are plot wise

1) Arya sailing to Bravvos

2) The Hound left to die

3) Tyrion kills Tywin and heads for Pentos

4) Stannis is at the wall. mance is his prisoner.

5) Dany is in Meereen and locking up her dragons.

6) Cersei is asserting her power as Queen Regent. Qyburn is experimenting on people.

7) Sansa is leaving the Eyrie with LF.

8) Theon and the Boltons are taking up residence in Winterfell.

9) Brienne and Pod are looking for the Starks.

10) Tommen is going to marry marge.

These are the same beats as the books. Ok so there have been some changes to individual journeys but this is clearly an adaptation of GRRMs books rather than fanfic. I think you are nitpicking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it was the lack of sex and boobs this season that made them lose touch with their usual good adaptation skills. Who knows.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again sj4iy, you never answer the primary concerns book readers have with the direction of the series. It's less about omitting particular lines and very minor subplots and rather that they've chosen to create unnecessary filler and original scenes that are actually alerting the primary narrative in a way that places the show in jepordy of going so far off the rails that it no longer bears resemblance to the source material. For instance, having Bronn take over Ilyn Payne's role as Jaime's sparring partner was a very understandable and successful change. Even the the Brienne-Hound fight can be understood, as it likely won't throw either character arc too far off course from where they need to go. What we're concerned about are unsettling things like Jaime possibly going to Dorne, the Greyjoy brothers being cut, Lady Stoneheart being cut, Varys going east with Tyrion, (taking over the role of Ilyrio I assume?) The time spent with made up subplots like Missandei and Greyworm could have been better spent fleshing out characters they've neglected using actual material from the novels. While the show might not be fanfiction, I don't see why you're so blind to legitimate criticisms of the work and our concerns over where the television show is taking the series. The butterfly effect that the author himself is concerned about should be a concern to you as well, and yet you continually act like bookreaders are just butthurt that our favorite lines are cut. (Not that these aren't somewhat legitimate, as many lines would have complimented much of their admittedly excellent dialogue)

I'm a book reader, too. Not all of us watch the show while comparing notes, or make outlines in our head of how everything is 'supposed' to go. How do you know what's unnecessary and what isn't? Do you know where the endgame is going? Because I don't. How do you know that the Missandei/Greyworm thing doesn't have some important implication down the road? In the show, it's very well done and tasteful. it's also a very valid point to bring up- the Unsullied may be castrated and they may be warriors, but they are also humans. And up until recently, they haven't been treated as such. Also, there's a difference between "cut" and "moved". Lady Stoneheart hasn't been cut by any means. She simply didn't show up in this past episode. It has absolutely no impact on the story yet, because she's not necessary yet. That's the very definition of nitpicking.

And I've seen A LOT of butthurt over things such as cut or changed lines. You can't have been around this forum and not have seen it. How many posts were there complaining about "Only Cat"? Quite a lot.

I have my issues with episodes, but it never has to do with "oh my god, it's changed from the book!" And I'm not remotely blind to legitimate criticisms of the show. It's just that you are conflating two different things- criticizing the show because the show did something wrong is not the same as criticizing the show because it wasn't like the book. Being like the book is NOT the same being correct. Being different from the book is NOT the same as being wrong.

Like I said, you can prefer one version over the other, but that doesn't mean that the other version is badly done. It just means you have a different preference. For my part, there are some things that I felt the show did better (Brienne's story so far) and some things that I felt the books did better (Jon's trip with the Halfhand). I legitimately have no favorite.

Edited by sj4iy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To name just one example from Episode 10:

What made Tyrion go to the Tower of the Hand to confront his father?

You really can't tell? If your father, after hating you your entire life, finally decided to sentence you to death, I repeat, if your father sentenced you to die for no reason whatsoever, you wouldn't want to, hell, you wouldn't need to face him and simply ask him: "Why? What have I ever done to you to deserve this treatment?"

You're really saying this? Really? Well then, more power to you, I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

His father just condemned him to death, is it not enough to confront him? And then Tyrion found Shae in Tywin's bed, another reason to kill Tywin (who called her a "whore" twice) the hypocrit saying in his face that he deshonored the family with whores while he was doing the same thing.

As for Shae, she betrayed Tyrion because he left her for Sansa, and because Cersei forced her to make a testimony against him (it's the same in the books)... In the bedroom, she knew he was gonna be mad at her.

As for the door, how is it different from the books? Tyrion climbs the stairs in the darkness and find his father's appartments...

Nothing is illogical, it's just you who can't accept little changes. Don't watch an adaptation if you don't accept that the books are adapted...

To be honest, the original plot was pretty illogical. What was Tyrion trying to accomplish? His father might had been old, but still a military man. How could Tyrion hope to overpower Tywin in normal circumstances without a weapon, let alone without alerting the guard? Unless he remembered where the crossbow was, and waited for the opportunity. Would have made a lot more sense if there happened to be a crossbow in the tunnel or carried by Varys.

Why Tywin had to do Shae in his room? Surely his guards would have heard it and gossiped it over drinks.

Wouldn't Cersei have posted extra and trusted guards for a brother she feared/hated so much? Or just chain him to the wall.

The show adaptation made it worse. How would he know there was a secret passage without Varys telling him? Both Kevan and Pod thought Tyrion was guilty. How could Tyrion blame Tywin for the verdict?

This entire thing felt like a plot device in both the books and the show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×