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How would you rate episode 410?

How would you rate episode 410?  

1,079 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      60
    • 2
      21
    • 3
      23
    • 4
      27
    • 5
      62
    • 6
      76
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      122
    • 8
      179
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      248
    • 10
      259


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I guess next time we go on and praise what a great adaptation Amadeus was of the life of Mozart.


It is a great film, no one can deny that, but it is a horrible adaptation.



W. has a s much to do with George Bush as grapefruit juice and the pope.



But go on, I love to read those rant posts that turn and twist everything to whitewash the show. It's rather entertaining.


adaptation...tsk.


Google the word before using it.


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...yeah, I really don't feel like discussing the sanitation habits of the characters in the book vs the show.

The books got it wrong, basically. The show fixed it. The show is allowed to do that, because the books are NOT law, nor are they the bible. Changes are, always have been and always will be allowed. If Martin makes a mistake, like say, a regular Wildling archer's arrow can reach 700 feet straight up in the air to hit a guy on top of the Wall (which happened), then the show is ALLOWED to say "hmm, that could never happen, let's fix that" and change it to where the Wildling's arrow no longer reaches, but a Giant's arrow could. Even Martin admitted that the arrow thing was a mistake. So it's all good now.

the books are the "bible".

The show is supposed to stay true them, not to their own stuff.

And if they love correcting, then why oh why did they not make the golden crown scene 40 minutes? Gold does not melt so quickly, not does it melt in a pot made of iron that is a foot over a flame.

Nor does molten gold have a golden colour or solidifies in 2 seconds.

Thank you.

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the books are the "bible".

The show is supposed to stay true them, not to their own stuff.

False. Objectively. You should probably stop watching the show at this point if this is your expectation.

An adaptation, by definition, is going to change things to better suit the needs of a different medium. The fact that the show alters lines or inconsequential details doesn't mean it's not an adaptation. Inventing scenes or minor subplots that eventually tie back into the source material doesn't mean it's not an adaptation, either.

The fact is that literally every major book event (in a plot sense) has been covered by the show with a comparatively high degree of fidelity. The same cannot be said for STIK and other such "inspired by" works.

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I guess next time we go on and praise what a great adaptation Amadeus was of the life of Mozart.

It is a great film, no one can deny that, but it is a horrible adaptation.

Both Peter Shaffer who wrote the original play and MiloŇ° Forman , who directed the film, have said that Amadeus was not supposed to be an accurate historical portrait Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Antonio Salieri, the play and likewise the film , used their lives as a vehicle for exploring the complexity of creativity.

It's lack of historical accuracy didn't bother me one bit since it was not supposed to be that.

Edited by boojam

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the books are the "bible".

Nah. They are Quran with some Book of Mormon: An Account Written by the Hand of Mormon upon Plates Taken from the Plates of Nephi liberally sprinkled on top. I also heard there are some sutras in there, but I can't really vouch for that last piece of info.

Edited by Mr Fixit

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I guess next time we go on and praise what a great adaptation Amadeus was of the life of Mozart.

It is a great film, no one can deny that, but it is a horrible adaptation.

W. has a s much to do with George Bush as grapefruit juice and the pope.

But go on, I love to read those rant posts that turn and twist everything to whitewash the show. It's rather entertaining.

adaptation...tsk.

Google the word before using it.

False equivalency. Neither of those were adaptations of a work of fiction, but instead were semi-biographical movies. Neither of which has anything to do with GoT or its ability to adapt ASoIaF.

If you want to prove your argument that the show is failing to adapt the books successfully, then you need to illustrate:

1. What the overall theme of ASoIaF is. Why? Because without that theme, you have no way to prove that the changes being made in the show have adversely affected the overall theme of the books.

2. Examples of changes that have destroyed or changed that theme.

Also, if you want to use examples of other adaptations to prove your point, then you need to find an adaptation that is exactly the same as the source material to prove that it can be done and was successful as a film when transcribed exactly the way it was in the book. I could easily name a dozen movies that strayed from the source material while being a successful film and a successful adaptation. Can you do the same?

Edited by sj4iy

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The books got it wrong then, sure.

I actually don't debate if the books got something right or wrong or if the show corrected a "mistake".

The books are the law and the facts when it comes to ASOIAF. At least for me.

Why then has Sansa a chamber pot? She shits in a porcelain dish and puts it under her bed until her handmaidens come. Books and Series say that. Why then would the privy that has probably even a direct connection to the outer wall of the Red Keep be located somewhere else?

In most castles that still stand, the toilet is located in a room directly at the wall. So the excrements weren't kept in a box to collect later on, but the toilet you sat on had a slide that let the shit fall through the wall into the moat.

So they more or less shat down the wall.

So there was not really a scent left.

And as a highborn and in the world of grrm, they likely had a vase of water that they poured after they were done, so to wash down the literal shit stains.

^sorry for the image. :)

Yep - I really think you guys are on to major script changes on this theme - you emailed GRRM on this stuff yet? :)

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"A thousand eyes and.... two."



Ridiculous. The show has steadily gone downhill from season 1. This season had the best source material and they only came up with 2 quality episodes out of ten in my opinion.



I now begin my watch for many years from now, when this show had been forgotten and someone does Martin's books justice with movie adaptation.



Here are the problems with this episode:



1. No Tysha. Really a problem with the entire series that they tried to replace her with Shae. Ruined so many things. My favourite part of the books was Tyrion's discussion with Jaime and the cause for killing his father.



2. Brienne's character. I always saw her in the books as someone who was physically unattractive, but her personality was her true virtue. Now her personality is as unattractive as her appearance. No redeeming qualities in her anymore and her dedication to her "oath" seems way more like stubbornness than honor.



3. 2 eyes. I could understand not going through the effort of giving him one eye, but why in seven hells would you have him say that quote?



4. Leaf, or whoever she was and her fireballs. If I knew that my actor could not throw, I would not have her weapon of choice be fireballs. It looked so amateur, that I would have laughed if it wasn't making me so angry.



5. Skeletons and Jojen's death. As comical as the fireballs. Only more frustrating in that Jojen's character was a mockery from start to finish.



6. Most importantly, the ending. They have had many great epilogues and prologues to work with, yet have only used one in the correct place and that was the first scene of the show. Instead each season ends and begins with some fluff, instead of capitalizing on some fan favorite moments.



I'm done with the show, at least I won't have to make the hard choice of letting the show spoil the books for me when the pass Martin.



So thanks for that.


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Nah. They are Quran with some Book of Mormon: An Account Written by the Hand of Mormon upon Plates Taken from the Plates of Nephi liberally sprinkled on top. I also heard there are some sutras in there, but I can't really vouch for that last piece of info.

I mean, the definition of "adapt" is, in part, "modify." As in, make suitable for another medium; modify.

By definition adaptation requires change.

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The books got it wrong, then, because that's a terrible place to put it when you don't have indoor plumbing.

Hmmmm interesting. There is one book scene in which Dolorous Edd sprinkles nutmeg into a pot of hard boiling eggs in the shell. I'm sure there is some reason for that nutmeg but haven't figured it out ;)

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In no way was Shae a replacement for Tysha. She was just a somewhat more sympathetic Shae. The Tysha story was told to Bronn. Tyrion was 13! They got married! He was in honest love (not the weird falling in love with a known whore thing).

While I'm at it Olly isn't Satin. He's not from Oldtown, he is a child, not an adult, he took no vows, he's a refugee not a steward. He's more Zei than Satin and he isn't Zei. He's Olly.

Shae wasn't murdering Tyrion in the bedroom. She could take care of herself she thinks so when in doubt, pull a knife. I guess she lost the one on her leg. She'd just basically killed Tyrion with her testimony. She was suddenly in deep sh*t potentially. She murdered him in court. He murdered her in the bedroom.

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Hmmmm interesting. There is one book scene in which Dolorous Edd sprinkles nutmeg into a pot of hard boiling eggs in the shell. I'm sure there is some reason for that nutmeg but haven't figured it out ;)

He's a terrible cook XD

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In no way was Shae a replacement for Tysha. She was just a somewhat more sympathetic Shae. The Tysha story was told to Bronn. Tyrion was 13! They got married! He was in honest love (not the weird falling in love with a known whore thing).

While I'm at it Olly isn't Satin. He's not from Oldtown, he is a child, not an adult, he took no vows, he's a refugee not a steward. He's more Zei than Satin and he isn't Zei. He's Olly.

Shae wasn't murdering Tyrion in the bedroom. She could take care of herself she thinks so when in doubt, pull a knife. I guess she lost the one on her leg. She'd just basically killed Tyrion with her testimony. She was suddenly in deep sh*t potentially. She murdered him in court. He murdered her in the bedroom.

Shae is a replacement for Tysha in terms of Tyrion's motivations, emotions, etc. Rather than have Tyrion monologuing about his ex for the first 3.5 seasons so that the viewer would truly understand her importance to him (since it all takes place in his head in the books), the showrunners just used the people actually on screen. This is precisely what is meant by adaptation--something that happens almost entirely as an internal monologue in the books probably won't work on the show, so they use something else similar in its place. Here, they really built up his relationship with Shae a lot more than in the books, so that her betrayal had more weight.

I don't think a single non-book reader got to the privvy scene and thought, "why is Tyrion is so mad Tywin?" lol, the combo of Shae & the death sentence was more than adequate to justify Tyrion's behavior, and justify him going into a depressed funk, which is what Tysha's role was.

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Shae is a replacement for Tysha in terms of Tyrion's motivations, emotions, etc. Rather than have Tyrion monologuing about his ex for the first 3.5 seasons so that the viewer would truly understand her importance to him (since it all takes place in his head in the books), the showrunners just used the people actually on screen. This is precisely what is meant by adaptation--something that happens almost entirely as an internal monologue in the books probably won't work on the show, so they use something else similar in its place. Here, they really built up his relationship with Shae a lot more than in the books, so that her betrayal had more weight.

I don't think a single non-book reader got to the privvy scene and thought, "why is Tyrion is so mad Tywin?" lol, the combo of Shae & the death sentence was more than adequate to justify Tyrion's behavior, and justify him going into a depressed funk, which is what Tysha's role was.

How will we ever find out where whores go?

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The books got it wrong then, sure.

I actually don't debate if the books got something right or wrong or if the show corrected a "mistake".

The books are the law and the facts when it comes to ASOIAF. At least for me.

In most castles that still stand, the toilet is located in a room directly at the wall. So the excrements weren't kept in a box to collect later on, but the toilet you sat on had a slide that let the shit fall through the wall into the moat.

So they more or less shat down the wall.

So there was not really a scent left.

And as a highborn and in the world of grrm, they likely had a vase of water that they poured after they were done, so to wash down the literal shit stains.

^sorry for the image. :)

In the link above the privies did have shafts often to the moat. Use of fragrant plants also helped- as mentioned in the description of Arianne's privy IIRC.

But not every chamber can be at the end of the hall - Tywin had the equivalent of a Lords & Ladies chamber. Not every room has any access to a privy - thus chamber pots.

Someone has never camped near an outhouse if you think a room near a castle privy won't smell.

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Shae is a replacement for Tysha in terms of Tyrion's motivations, emotions, etc. Rather than have Tyrion monologuing about his ex for the first 3.5 seasons so that the viewer would truly understand her importance to him (since it all takes place in his head in the books), the showrunners just used the people actually on screen. This is precisely what is meant by adaptation--something that happens almost entirely as an internal monologue in the books probably won't work on the show, so they use something else similar in its place. Here, they really built up his relationship with Shae a lot more than in the books, so that her betrayal had more weight.

I don't think a single non-book reader got to the privvy scene and thought, "why is Tyrion is so mad Tywin?" lol, the combo of Shae & the death sentence was more than adequate to justify Tyrion's behavior, and justify him going into a depressed funk, which is what Tysha's role was.

Tyrion was a book reader who found himself captured and on trial for his life - escaping by wits and money - then thrust into battle where he is fairly protected - then enjoying being the acting Hand but not politically skilled or pretty enough to be admired (instead is reviled) then helping defend the city, then finding himself at odds with everyone in his family including the new king ( in the past I get the feeling only Jaime an Cersei were at KL) suddenly the Lannisters are all in the same castle and not allowed to just pursue their own inclinations at an interminable family reunion in a small space.

Now his own family not only won't appreciate him but has actually seriously tried to kill him, without being cursed via a kangaroo court and a careless champion, and someone he trusted and loved betrayed him - tougher because he KNEW better than to trust or fall in love with Shae. But it's still his family and he really did think there was something there with Shae. So he left KL not as a dissolute but frustrated scholar but as a murderer - cursed - and not just in others' minds but in his own mind. No wonder he drank so much in Essos. I think he and Jaime will get over their spat.

All the things you ascribe to Tysha were characteristics Tyrion put onto Shae in the books. On the show she even lived up to them a little. He projects his ideal woman (Tysha) onto whoever he's fucking at the time. That's how whores make a living. He's not brave enough to find a real girlfriend and who can blame him after that experience at 13.

I also think he has to be the valonqar. Yes it's too obvious but it's TOO obvious. If he isn't it will be like Sandor and Gregor - someone else will beat him to it.

Edited by rmholt

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I was so hoping that question would be answered someday.

Reno

Edited by rmholt

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[spoiler\] No Val, Dalla, Baby, or Stoneheart. I understand the logistical reason the tv story must veer off the book, maybe in the long term the choices will make sense, but I am sad to see these omissions. Perhaps they will turn up next season. [\spoiler]

Also....John snow needs to be with Ghost more often. That needs to be fixed next season.

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