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Ran

How would you rate episode 410?

How would you rate episode 410?  

1,079 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      60
    • 2
      21
    • 3
      23
    • 4
      27
    • 5
      62
    • 6
      76
    • 7
      122
    • 8
      179
    • 9
      248
    • 10
      259


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Good post. I don't have any problems with changes but I feel this season in particular (and Dany's arc in S2) made a lot of changes that had little to no logic behind them. "Only Cat" and Stoneheart being removed didn't bother me but the Craster's arc added nothing but a fight scene and another reunion tease. The only thing that came from it was John spitting in Styr's face. The change to have both CB battles at once was logical and worked brilliantly IMO. Asha attacking the Dreadfort did not. My problem is that they expend time and budget on stories that amount to nothing/very little and then use their lack of time/budget to justify leaving out other storylines.

My nitpicks this season:

Locke's kidnapping Bran (like you said) and the whole Craster's arc.

Beetle convo and generally wasting Tyrion's cell time instead of using it to reintroduce Tysha or give some Tywin backstory.

No Kevan

Brienne vs Hound felt extremely unnecessary.

Rorge and Biter - I mean, Biter just jumps on Sandor and gets his neck snapped while Rorge stands around waiting for Arya to kill him.

Stannis being so passive at the IB.

How anticlimatically Dany takes Mereen. We could have had a proper siege in place of Dreadfort and Craster's battles.

Baelish revealing how he planned the deaths of Joffrey of Jon Arryn so early in the season (not a major nitpick but I feel it would have added a lot of weight to his final scene with Lysa)

Arya and Sandor telling almost everyone who they are but not the farmer.

Emilia Clarke's "acting abilities" (I know they can't recast her at this point but still...)

Jon still not warging. I don't care so much about Arya's wolf dreams being cut but Jon being a warg seems quite important.

I fully agree. Apart from Cersei's chapters, I really didn't enjoy Feast. Brienne is by far the worst PoV since Cat IMO.

There is one way that the show can compete with the book story and come out on top. Cut out all the fat that Martin wrote into the story and they'll really have something. Start with Tyrion, Brienne and Sam who all spend an inordinate amount of time wondering endlessly about. Hopefully they'll just cut to the chase.

I also agree that Pedro Pascall's performance as Oberyn was nothing short of spectacular. In the book, I never gave an avian rodent's fuzzy back-side about Oberyn. On the show, he made me love the guy. He took over every scene like a boss. My hat is off to the man. Too bad he had to go.

Edited by Green Knight

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I also agree that Pedro Pascall's performance as Oberyn was nothing short of spectacular. In the book, I never gave an avian rodent's fuzzy back-side about Oberyn. On the show, he made me love the guy. He took over every scene like a boss. My hat is off to the man. Too bad he had to go.

Agreed, the Red Viper came across as an arrogant hot head on a hiding to nothing when I first read the book. On a re-read post season 4, I now appreciate the character far more. I think Pedro Pascal and the screenwriters did wonders in adding more depth and emotion to his character. Even though we book readers knew he was a dead man from the moment he turns up on screen in LF's brothel, you still find yourself rooting for him and hoping against hope there would be a plot ret-con to keep him around.

I really hope they get the Doran Martell casting right now.

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Well, that's because the books are perfect and the show is blasphemy.

;)

It had to be said

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It had to be said

It is known that GRRM is the greatest writer who ever lived and people will worship his magnum opus for millennia to come. I'm nothing more than a humble prophet.

:thumbsup:

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Imho AFFC was awful. I can't take the endless journeying everybody seems to be doing without ever reaching any sort of satisfying conclusion. It is a snore fest. Dance of D's wasn't as bad but not nearly as good as the first three either. I'm hoping the next one will pick up the original vibe again.

Totally agree. Feast must be a bitch to adapt as soooo little happens. It's all travelogue and internal monologue. Very little character development or overall plot development. I hope we see some radical changes, especially for Brienne and Sanza. It's a terrible book.

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It is known that GRRM is the greatest writer who ever lived and people will worship his magnum opus for millennia to come. I'm nothing more than a humble prophet.

:thumbsup:

I agree (assuming you are being sarcastic). Martin is far from a great writer. I enjoy the story quite a lot but damn he drops the ball so hard with his writing. Feast and Dance were a complete mess.

*Just my opinion. Please don't flame me too hard.*

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Totally agree. Feast must be a bitch to adapt as soooo little happens. It's all travelogue and internal monologue. Very little character development or overall plot development. I hope we see some radical changes, especially for Brienne and Sanza. It's a terrible book.

Well, by recombining Feast and Dance, they will automatically make it more interesting. It seems we will get Jaime in Dorne, and hopefully they will cut down on the amount of Brienne storyline. They've changed what will happen at the Wall by not having Val or Dalla (so far, anyway), so I think we will see some condensation of that storyline, as well. All in all, I think they've left enough surprising moments from ASoS and will have enough surprising moments from ADwD to make the next season work well.

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I agree (assuming you are being sarcastic). Martin is far from a great writer. I enjoy the story quite a lot but damn he drops the ball so hard with his writing. Feast and Dance were a complete mess.

*Just my opinion. Please don't flame me too hard.*

Ha ha, yes, I'm quite the sarcastic ass around here ^^ But it's all in good fun. Martin is definitely far from the best writer, but he wrote a fun book series. Sometimes it gets tiresome seeing some people treat it like a religious text, though.

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Totally agree. Feast must be a bitch to adapt as soooo little happens. It's all travelogue and internal monologue. Very little character development or overall plot development. I hope we see some radical changes, especially for Brienne and Sanza. It's a terrible book.

Cersei was the only character I enjoyed in that book. I really liked seeing things from her fucked up perspective.

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Cersei was the only character I enjoyed in that book. I really liked seeing things from her fucked up perspective.

Her power struggle with Marge, arrest and walk of shame should make her one of the stars of season 5. Lena will nail it. Have no idea what D&D will do with Sanza. Bound to cause a serious shitstorm on ere!

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Sanza is by far the most interesting misspelling of all the characters so far.


Sounds pseudo Italian/Greek/Spanish.



la manzana


la sanza


sanzana


Io sono la potenza. Io sono la sanza.


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Martin is far from a great writer.

Care to elaborate a little? Like, why is he such a bad writer in your opinion? Why do you find these books so bad? I'm genuinely curious, hope you won't flame me for it.

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I agree (assuming you are being sarcastic). Martin is far from a great writer. I enjoy the story quite a lot but damn he drops the ball so hard with his writing. Feast and Dance were a complete mess.

*Just my opinion. Please don't flame me too hard.*

No flame just pity ;)

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feast is by far the best written book. Perhaps not the best story..not so much action, but the best written one. And the most interesting one.



And I rush through his 1000 pages like I never did through some 100 page book of one of these super great writers of classics.

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Care to elaborate a little? Like, why is he such a bad writer in your opinion? Why do you find these books so bad? I'm genuinely curious, hope you won't flame me for it.

He's not a bad writer at all but I certainly don't find him to be a great writer like Kafka, Joyce or Dostoyevsky. His pacing and narrative abilities have always felt almost amateur-ish to me. I also feel he lacks subtlety in descriptive passages; needlessly describing clothes, architecture and food in ways that feels like it slips into omniscient as opposed to restricted 3rd person. Again, this is all subjective criticism.

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^^


Taste is always a personal matter and subjective, of course. But you hold Martin against a very high standard if you compare him to Kafka, Joyce and especially Dostoevsky, which is a refreshing approach, because I think his work can only benefit from such a comparison. Now, first, I was never fascinated with Joyce, though his importance and influence are undeniable. Kinda respect him, but don't love him. The way I see him, he was experimenting, and it was a welcomed effort, but it was never meant to be a standard, and sadly it became precisely that in postmodernism, though, unfortunately, usually in the hands of lesser writers than Joyce himself was. Of all the writers he influenced, he was surpassed only by Faulkner in my opinion. Kafka is much closer to me, but the thing is, he wrote short books and stories, and mostly modernistic ones (high on themes and symbols, but not so on realism, if well developed and rounded characters are the basis of realism). All in all, I think a writer can be way different than Joyce and Kafka, and still be great. In fact, if a writer obviously resembles them, or anyone else for that matter, he certainly isn't great.



Dostoevsky is an interesting case, because he's my favorite writer of all times. The one quality his books possess over great many other works, is the characters. Not only that they're so well developed and realistic, but, even more important, they're infinitely passionate. For what they love and crave, they're willing to do anything (or almost anything), which enables a phenomenal dramatic potential. And in that regard, he's way different than many modernist and postmodernist authors (Joyce and Kafka included), whose characters are always more cerebral&intellectual, and therefore static, than they're passionate. Martin's characters are passionate, and that is among the crucial qualities of ASOIAF. A lesser writer wouldn't be able to create characters that are as passionate as these are. And the way Martin uses them is nothing but brilliant in my eyes. Because, opposite to what some fans think, he uses his characters to not only to shock readers and keep us at the edge of our seats, but also to deliver bigger themes, among which possibly the biggest one is: various forms of individualism in a world/culture/society that is endlessly dependent on collectivism. It wouldn't be possible to achieve that with characters that aren't as passionate. I wouldn't be surprised to find out Martin is a big fan of Dostoevsky, not the least because of Davos' resistance to Stannis over Edric, which does resemble famous Dostoevsky's quote that all the happiness in the world is not worth one tear of a baby. Besides Martin, my favorite contemporary authors Coetzee and Llosa. While Coetzee firmly belongs to the postmodernist camp, Llosa is, like Martin, closer to romanticism and very skilled at creating passionate characters and obviously influenced by Dostoevsky.



Anyway, I see nothing amateurish about ASOIAF. Admittedly, in a 5.000 pages story, not every line is going to be great or brilliant, but nothing strikes me as amateurish. Especially not in regards to pacing or narration. How much in-story time he manages to cover in each chapter is nothing short of fascinating. His dialogues are almost always perfect, which is one of the things I particularly respect. And the themes ASOIAF explores are not a bit less serious or important than themes that are usually associated with high literature. In fact, one of the reasons I dislike the show as much as I do, is that they neglected/dropped almost all the themes from the books and focused only on shocking twists and developments. I keep repeating it, but, whatever you think of Martin as a writer, it's obvious his influences for ASOIAF are Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Goethe, and possibly Dostoevsky. This was never meant to be just another genre work.



Would like to know what you find amateurish about Martin's pacing or narration. Don't get me wrong, I'm never "insulted" because of someone's honest opinion about my favorite author, no matter how strongly you dislike him. And it does look like you really dislike Martin, because you did say he's "far from a great writer", and that certain aspects of his writing is amateurish. That's why I'd be interested to find out about particular complaints of yours.


Edited by Miodrag

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It had to be said

He was being sarcastic.

Would like to know what you find amateurish about Martin's pacing or narration. Don't get me wrong, I'm never "insulted" because of someone's honest opinion about my favorite author, no matter how strongly you dislike him. And it does look like you really dislike Martin, because you did say he's "far from a great writer", and that certain aspects of his writing is amateurish. That's why I'd be interested to find out about particular complaints of yours.

I like GRRM's writing a lot, but he falls into the trap of describing everything. Sometimes he describes literally every item of clothing in the room, and I just zone out. He seems to enjoy writing the sensory detail more than telling the story. AFfC/ADwD was marred by poor editing and some bad characters, who were neither interesting nor likable. The whole queenmaker subplot was ridiculous. Were we honestly supposed to believe that Arianne and her merry band of misfits thought they could bring down the Lannisters and dethrone Tommen? Arys Oakheart would have known better. Don't even get me started on travelogue!

Edited by FalseKnight

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He's Dickens

As much as I wanted to throw "Great Expectations" across the room when I was made to read it in 9th grade, I'd rather reread it than reread AFFC in full.

/fuck maids of 13 with auburn hair

Throws up hands

Guess we need a sarcasm font?

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