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Ran

How would you rate episode 410?

How would you rate episode 410?  

1,079 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      60
    • 2
      21
    • 3
      23
    • 4
      27
    • 5
      62
    • 6
      76
    • 7
      122
    • 8
      179
    • 9
      248
    • 10
      259


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I hope this is just a failed attempt at humor.

That quote was incredibly hard to relocate but you can see it here http://poetry.rapgenius.com/3327031

The man has fewer twitter followers than *I* do

Was not a joke at you, if that's what you meant.

I just think that the extra who played him and the crew are pretty much publicity whores.

Not really a joke. I just generally can't stand such crap.

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You should read his TF. This isn't a big star promoting himself. He's far from an extra. He had to learn the Low Valyrian lines.

Book readers were anticipating this scene big time. It's difficult to nail a scene that book readers want to see done right but he disappointed no one. Even you aren't bashing his performance.

Even actors are real people.

You seem unhappy in general which is no way to live.

Edited by rmholt

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As much as I wanted to throw "Great Expectations" across the room when I was made to read it in 9th grade, I'd rather reread it than reread AFFC in full.

/fuck maids of 13 with auburn hair

Guess we need a sarcasm font?

People used to line up at the port where the ship would land bringing the magazine with the latest Dickens installment. Sound familiar ;)

Speaking of Great Expectations the surprise in that book is repeated as grand themes throughout ASOIAF. I was actually thinking of that when contemplating littrachewer comparisons.

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You should read his TF. This isn't a big star promoting himself. He's far from an extra. He had to learn the Low Valyrian lines.

Book readers were anticipating this scene big time. It's difficult to nail a scene that book readers want to see done right but he disappointed no one. Even you aren't bashing his performance.

Even actors are real people.

You seem unhappy in general which is no way to live.

Rmholt,

I agree with you on all counts. That actor did a great job. The scene was heart wrenching. This show is damned if it does and damned if it doesnt.

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Rmholt,

I agree with you on all counts. That actor did a great job. The scene was heart wrenching. This show is damned if it does and damned if it doesnt.

Yeah heh I need to chill

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Miodrag:

To make a last point about the description of genitalia:

We had to read "The Reader" in school. Like not each for his own, but like everyone read a line aloud. And not that the book was an atrocity to read anyway, but Schlink is horrible at writing erotic stuff. Not that it was supposed to be erotic, but it was just awkward. Even if one would read it in private, but he used the german scientific term for penis, "Glied"(literally "member"). And that is quite a read, I can tell you that.

Not that no one ever would say or write that word(I wonder why it even exists), but if there was written "Schwanz" or any other slightly derogatory or more common term for his reproductive organ, I would have appreciated it.

Once again, to make myself clear, I have nothing against terms GRRM uses to describe genitalia. On the contrary, he manages to use the language that seems suitable for the culture he chose as a setting. I just don't like when he uses them in narration. I'm completely fine with Tyrion talking or thinking about cunts, but it's somewhat distracting for me when a narrator does it. However, as I said, close-third-person narration is a tricky technique, because what I can find too personal, some other reader can find too neutral, and vice versa, so my complaint is a very personal one. And it's really not a big complaint.

We were discussing why people might think that that GRRM is a good but not great writer. I don't have time to go through every line of your post and show you how I agree or disagree. I don't have an obsession for one type of literature. I pick books based on recommendations. If i like the book, I'll read another. Unfortunately, I don't have time to read for pleasure. I enjoyed ASoIaF, and I want to read TWoW. I just don't think GRRM is a great writer. He's a very good writer, but he seems to have some problems telling the story.

GRRM writes good characters, and he develops them well. My central complaint would be that he focuses on the world building aspect to the detriment of his story. That's why I defend the show. It tells the story rather than focusing on details that I don't find all that interesting. I'm honestly not bashing GRRM or his books, even AFfC/ADwD. I think you misunderstand my point. I never said he spends too much time on politics. I said he writes more on politics because he hasn't--possibly can't--find a way to fully explain the Others in the POV format. If you don't think the format limits him, I don't know what to say. I hope this is more responsive.

I see absolutely no reason to think GRRM wanted to "fully explain" The Others, but failed to do it because of a format. I'm pretty certain The Others are fleshed out exactly to an extent GRRM wanted so far. As a matter of fact, I can't think of a single thing that suffered because of a POV structure of the books. Looks like he managed to tell everything he planed to, and to put aside everything he didn't want revealed or looked at from proximity. It'd help if you give me some example of books suffering because of a POV structure. In what way and at what instance did POV structure limited Martin so far? The Others don't fit at all, because everything suggests that, at this point in the story, they are to be perceived as the most terrifying, but still very mysterious, threat for the mankind. In every case, had he wanted, I guess he could've given a POV to Coldhands, for example. That chapter most probably wouldn't be nearly as tricky as Cersei's walk of shame, or Sansa's first period, or Tyrion during the battle at the Blackwater, or Jaime after losing his hand, not to mention the Red Wedding or Bran's chapters (for example, Bran not reaching Meera because he didn't want to look strange or funny shows the empathy Martin feels for his characters is perhaps unparalleled), and so on. The books are full of chapters that were extremely difficult for writing, so I don't quite get why would anyone think that GRRM dropped anything because it was too hard for him. Especially because The Others don't seem to be too dependent on reasoning, so I don't see what would be so difficult in writing a POV for someone among them in the first place.

About details, of course you're entitled to find them not interesting, but much of those details are crucial in describing the world and the setting of ASOIAF. Even the food descriptions serve to reveal differences between social classes, and in ADWD they even play a role in a dramatic way (Frey Pie). I think the story would loose much of its depth if those descriptions were cut. For comparison, I tried to read Malazan Book of the Fallen series, and quit after the first book, precisely because the world isn't properly established at all. Everything's about the characters (and even they weren't too deep, by the way), while the setting is never looked at seriously and thoroughly.

As for the show, that's where we disagree the most. At this point, it looks like the show is telling a story of its own, and not trying to tell ASOIAF in another medium. But, whatever story they're trying to tell, be it Martin's or their own, they're not doing it well, because their story is full of plot wholes and characters' inconsistencies. And it's not like they have no details. It's just that their `details` (like burping whores and all those brothel scenes and Margaery's "shenanigans" and detours a la the showdown at Craster's and Yara's attack on Dreadfort) are meaningless for both the setting and the characters, not to mention for the general story.

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People used to line up at the port where the ship would land bringing the magazine with the latest Dickens installment. Sound familiar ;)

Speaking of Great Expectations the surprise in that book is repeated as grand themes throughout ASOIAF. I was actually thinking of that when contemplating littrachewer comparisons.

Dickens was definitely the popstar of his day :)

He did a great job of portraying universal themes of rich, middle class and poor living together in disharmony in his literature, but his writing wasn't my cup of tea. I do love British literature, though, and his work is a big part of that...but Great Expectations was hard for me to get into. I must have spent 3 days rereading the first 10 pages over and over again because I would get to the end of them and was like "...what did I just read again?" It seriously just did not catch me. Now, "A Christmas Carol" is one of my favorite novellas, because it's a very well presented and written story.

In my opinion, if Martin had written AFFC and ADWD as one novel and cut out a lot of the unnecessary bloat, it would have been a great follow-up to ASOS- reestablishing the story, and introducing new characters (but not nearly so many). This is why I have high hopes for season 5, because we will see a less bloated version of these two books recombined as they should have been.

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^ IDK about that. There were still far, far too many cliffhangers. Very few characters had an entire arc.

They can fix that, too. All they have to do is move some stuff forward or back, and then we won't have a 'sudden stop' feel to the story like we do in the books.

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They can fix that, too. All they have to do is move some stuff forward or back, and then we won't have a 'sudden stop' feel to the story like we do in the books.

What sudden stop?

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What sudden stop?

The way almost every single storyline stops on a cliffhanger in both of those books is unsettling, and left me with the sense that he just decided "that's long enough" and stopped there.

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The way almost every single storyline stops on a cliffhanger in both of those books is unsettling, and left me with the sense that he just decided "that's long enough" and stopped there.

Do you really think they will reach these cliffhangers in the show before the book 6 comes out? I don't. We have to see every detail from Tyrion's life and there is still plenty of material there. The rest is irrelevant and will be invented at will.

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Do you really think they will reach these cliffhangers in the show before the book 6 comes out? I don't. We have to see every detail from Tyrion's life and there is still plenty of material there. The rest is irrelevant and will be invented at will.

Yes I do. I think we have a chance of seeing season 6 before we see book 6 at this rate.

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Yes I do. I think we have a chance of seeing season 6 before we see book 6 at this rate.

The book is going to be published in 2015. You are saying that it took them 4 seasons for 3 and a half books and it will take them less than one season for a book and a half. I assume you base your conclusion on the premise that you don't like books 4 and 5 and do not see anything interesting in them.

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The book is going to be published in 2015. You are saying that it took them 4 seasons for 3 and a half books and it will take them less than one season for a book and a half. I assume you base your conclusion on the premise that you don't like books 4 and 5 and do not see anything interesting in them.

No, they've only said that it would be published 'no earlier' than 2015.

I think from this point on, the show will be an amalgamation of books 3, 4, 5 and 6. There won't be 'this season for this book' anymore. It's going to start going beyond what we know.

And I liked book 5 but for some chapters. Book 4 had some good chapters, but overall, it wasn't my favorite. There are plenty of interesting things in both of them, but there are also uninteresting things in both of them, too. The show can focus on the former and cut the latter.

Edited by sj4iy

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No, they've only said that it would be published 'no earlier' than 2015.

I think from this point on, the show will be an amalgamation of books 3, 4, 5 and 6. There won't be 'this season for this book' anymore. It's going to start going beyond what we know.

And I liked book 5 but for some chapters. Book 4 had some good chapters, but overall, it wasn't my favorite. There are plenty of interesting things in both of them, but there are also uninteresting things in both of them, too. The show can focus on the former and cut the latter.

It's a pity they cannot consult with you to drop all the things you dislike and make it perfect. But, do not despair, anything that has anything to do with Tyrion will be covered in detail with insightful monologues like the beetle crushing one being inserted. The Wall will be cut short with no Val, no Dalla, no baby swap etc. You'll have to suffer through the tediousness that is Dorne with its boring ruler Doran Martell whose plans always fail. But, there is always Cersei, her scheming, her arrest, her walk of shame. You think that alone can be covered in one season? Ah, there are these awful Greyjoys as well. Belon hasn't even died yet and you believe the whole Euron election/Victarion journey can be covered in one season? Sam's trip to Braavos, Aemon's death etc - one season? LS shenanigans - one season. Winterfell sequence can fit into one season alone, especially if D&D pace it as fast as they did Tyrion's arc in season 4. And I didn't even mention events in Essos. You do like a digest version of ASOIAF.

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You do like a digest version of ASOIAF.

I'd rather take a digest version of ASOIAF than a sprawling and meandering one of which the author has clearly lost control

Gotta feel sorry for book editors. I didn't know their work was so reviled nowadays

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It's a pity they cannot consult with you to drop all the things you dislike and make it perfect. But, do not despair, anything that has anything to do with Tyrion will be covered in detail with insightful monologues like the beetle crushing one being inserted. The Wall will be cut short with no Val, no Dalla, no baby swap etc. You'll have to suffer through the tediousness that is Dorne with its boring ruler Doran Martell whose plans always fail. But, there is always Cersei, her scheming, her arrest, her walk of shame. You think that alone can be covered in one season? Ah, there are these awful Greyjoys as well. Belon hasn't even died yet and you believe the whole Euron election/Victarion journey can be covered in one season? Sam's trip to Braavos, Aemon's death etc - one season? LS shenanigans - one season. Winterfell sequence can fit into one season alone, especially if D&D pace it as fast as they did Tyrion's arc in season 4. And I didn't even mention events in Essos. You do like a digest version of ASOIAF.

Don't be ridiculous. I haven't once said what they should or shouldn't keep in the show, nor would I. I can like and dislike what I want to without any reference to anyone else, and you have no idea what I like or dislike in those books. But it's obvious that they will be taking from 4 books next season, because some characters are behind and some characters are so far ahead that there isn't much story left for them. It's also obvious that they aren't going to spend two seasons on the next two books because there are only 3 seasons left and 4 books of material left to cover. So they will have to cut and consolidate some things. It's basic common sense. Like it or not, we are going to GET a digest version of the story, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Edited by sj4iy

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I may be a stupid NoOb in post count, but I just thought I'd say..


Great thread.


I've been watching, and the last 20 pages have been an entertaining, interesting match of ideas,


Wit, sparring and verbal water-dancing.


Keep it up, and..thanks.


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Don't be ridiculous. I haven't once said what they should or shouldn't keep in the show, nor would I. I can like and dislike what I want to without any reference to anyone else, and you have no idea what I like or dislike in those books. But it's obvious that they will be taking from 4 books next season, because some characters are behind and some characters are so far ahead that there isn't much story left for them. It's also obvious that they aren't going to spend two seasons on the next two books because there are only 3 seasons left and 4 books of material left to cover. So they will have to cut and consolidate some things. It's basic common sense. Like it or not, we are going to GET a digest version of the story, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

As far as D&D said at the NYC premiere of GoT, there will be eight seasons. And I agree. At this stage, the show is all over the place, so God knows what may happen. As I said, we can be only certain that Tyrion arc will remain central as long as possible.

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