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How would you rate episode 410?


How would you rate episode 410?  

1,081 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

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This kind of comment is exactly what I was referring to when I talked about the dialog on these pages has been reduced to the equivalency of Youtube comments. I see nothing to respond to here but snarkiness..

You asked others to stop watching something if they didn't like like it.

You then said you didn't like to see negative comments.

Would my parody have been more clear if I had used the phrase 'Highly implore'? If you don't like comments that are the equivalent of Youtube comments, then don't make them yourself.

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Rated this a 7 but only because G of T is better than most of the garbage on TV these days, but this season really fell short in my opinion and this episode was weak. My complaints:

The Arya character in this series is now an emotionless robot. In the books she was scared and desperate (and human). The writers of this episode blew an important scene. In the books, when Arya comes upon the Titan's Daughter she is literally begging the captain for passage, scraping together her coins as the crew watched in amusement. Then she remembered...the iron coin buried deep in her smallclothes and she fumbles to find it. That lovely moment of suspence was totally missed by the series writers who rushed thru the scene, Arya just thrusts the coin at the captain and that was that. I wish these writers understood that their audience can actually appreciate nuance and that pacing is so important to create dramatic moments. There are so many other missed opportunities too numerous to mention, but this dumbing down of material is ruining the show. GRRM has given us thousands of pages of great material, why not use it?

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The show had great material to work with for the finale. A lot of story lines just happened to have great plot points all at once (except maybe Dany). How the show did not get a slam dunk 10 is incredible. Did D&D purposely want to veer from the book, did they need to change the story lines to narrow the focus, or did they just fuck up? Not sure, but I'm pretty disappointed. Moving forward, I'll just have to except that the show is not following the books and adjust my expectations accordingly.

Don't lower your expectations too much or you will get even more dumbed down content than ever. This series could have been much much better with all the great material GRRM has provided. I get it, we are becoming an illiterate nation, but do not surrender so casually to this inevitablity

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Can't believe they left out Jamie's admission about Tysha, especially since they actually had dealt with the Tyrion and Tysha marriage in the show. Why? Laziness? A total disrespect for the viewer's abilities to follow? That really, really irked me.

And now they killed Jojen too? I couldn't help lamenting and suspecting that the writers might regret killing Grenn and Pyp. But I am almost certain they will regret offing Jojen.

Book Jojen knows full well when his time to die will come and why, and I do suspect it will be something important, and it very well could make plot issues for the show. Oh, I'm sure they'll patch it up somehow of course. I'm equally sure it will be a fully unsatisfying and forced fix as well.

The Maid of Tarth is a baddass for sure, and beats most of the swordsmen in Westeros, that's fine. But just not the Hound. No way.

Other than that those irksome changes the episode was pretty good. The one change from the series that I noticed that I did like was Cersei's admission/threat to Tywin. That was beautiful (and not far fetched).

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Absolutely frustrating pacing, particularly after several episodes that were an utter snore-fest.
WHY did we need like 5 minutes of closeups on Ygritte's and Jon's faces while burning her on a pyre?
I'm a little miffed about no LSH, but she could easily be in the next season, no big deal there.

Bloodraven? THAT was supposed to be Bloodraven? The guy had two eyes! That's why the punchline is a thousand eyes and ONE, because he has one eye.

I actually liked the fight between Brienne and the Hound. Unexpected, but not terrible. Arya heading to Braavos-yay!
I'm glad they still killed Shae. I was afraid D&D were to going to have her disappear and then the 'Where do whores go' bit was to be him chasing her. I'm actually okay with the line not being uttered, mainly because I am so sick of hearing/reading it.

The scene with Tyrion and Tywin was lackluster.
Loved Jon, Mance, and Stannis. Then again, I think Stannis and Jon should do a buddy-cop show. I'm really hoping they capture the spirit of their conversations from here on out...doubtful.
Why was it okay to ice Jojen? And seriously, those skeletons! I'm usually terrified of the wights, but I literally lol'd at those things. How silly!

ETA: I usually hate the Essosi scenes, but they actually got most of it right this time! Except...it just gets to me that they are depicting the dragons like wyverns. Sigh.

Edited by Queen Whore
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Gave it a solid 2. After all, it is visibly better than the rest of the season. And I mean visibly. Like, visuals in this episode were given much more space than usual. And there was no Gilly, which is always a plus, considering how skillfully she's adapted.

What disturbs me is the level of inane babble that I have seen out of people on this site. I have been a member here for only three years, but I have been reading these pages since GRRM linked them from his website in 2000. I have never minded disagreeing with someone here that can pose an insightful and logical debate about their perspective. Every year that the show has gone on has led to more and more people just ranting. I know that the major source of discord is that the show deviates from the books, but to be perfectly frank, I am completely surprised that some of these people know how to read based on the level of literacy in their posts.

I am not talking about everyone here, there are several people that dislike this show and express it in ways that I can respect.

This site is the only social network I'm a member of. I'm an old school, middle-aged guy, so social networking is not really my thing. Hence, if posts like yours are normal and usual around the web, I wouldn't know.

Now, having said that, I have never, absolutely never, seen any people as touchy as fans of this show. It is totally unbelievable what sort of unhealthy, spoiled, aggressive fanaticism this show is inspiring. I've heard of similar fanaticism: two years ago, a reviewer who dared to criticize Dark Knight Rises was receiving death threats, for example. But, until GoT, I've never encountered anything like that myself.

And the most shocking thing is how ready show fanatics are to discuss anything and anyone, just not the actual show. You're always ready to share with the world how amazed you were by this scene or that one and how much the show means to you and how invested you are in it. You never hesitate to remind us that all the critics and all the viewers and all the universe loves your favorite show. But, you never seem ready to discuss the show. If you feel that you absolutely must reply to criticism, you always choose to attack posters who disagree with you. You never even try to discuss actual complaints. I imagine it'd be the easiest thing to do, if our complaints don't make sense. For example, for me it's very easy to answer criticism of ASOIAF books, because in most cases those complaints are not so well thought-out. I never attack those who complain about the books, because I have absolutely no reason for it. If their complaints are petty and illogical, as they usually are, I just point to it. If their complaints happen to make sense, I happily enter the discussion, using the opportunity to exchange ideas with someone who possibly saw something I missed, or generally sees things differently than I do. But attacking the complainer is never an option.

With this show its completely the opposite. Anyone who dares to criticize it, gets attacked. I'm not talking Westeros only. Other ASOIAF/GoT sites are even worse in that regard. Literally everyone who brings any complaint gets insulted from all directions. In short, you show lovers are always personal, regardless of do you talk about how much you love the show, or about how much you hate us who dislike the show.

Here's the news: I really don't care why is GoT so important to you. And I don't expect you to care about the reasons why I like or dislike something. And I couldn't care less about the professional reviewers that week in, week out, fail to mention at least one legitimate complaint out of hundreds that are heavily discussed on this site. So stop worrying about us who criticize the show and our motives. Instead, start addressing the things we point to. Or don't - but then don't go around accusing someone else of inane babbling.

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I gave this episode a 6, but I suspect I tend to rate more harshly than others regardless. It was an enjoyable episode overall, but there was some big stuff I just couldn't get past. It didn't make sense to me that Cersei went to Jaime and professed her devotion and desire for them to be together openly... only to have him decide off-screen to release Tyrion and risk her ire forever. I feel like we either shouldn't have had the Cersei/Jaime reunion at all, or else we needed an extra scene with Jaime and Varys discussing how Tyrion's release would be possible.

Tyrion and Jaime parting as best friends for life was okay, but then I was confused by Tyrion's intense need to go visit his father's chambers. What was he hoping to accomplish before he saw Shae on the bed? Just to ask his dad why he sucked so bad and then pray to the Seven that no guards were around to take him right back to his cell?

Ensuring Shae brandished a weapon so Tyrion had an 'excuse' to kill her certainly did nothing to improve my mood, but I guess they softened the blow by having him visibly shaken by what he'd done instead of defending himself or thinking she deserved it. (Which she didn't, in case you were wondering.)

I know my feelings about the books and the changes in the episode are bleeding into my interpretation of onscreen events, but it really did affect my enjoyment.

On the other hand, the Wall story line rebounded very well from how botched it's been - in my humble opinion - all season long. Everything's in place for an exciting season 5, even if it'll take place sans my favorite wildling princess. Daenerys' scenes were also lovely in a bittersweet way, and I felt for her much more than I did when Jorah was banished. Jojen's death was handled respectfully, and Brienne's fight with the Hound was brilliant. Had Sansa gotten a finale scene this season, I might have forgiven my anger at the King's Landing scenes, but as it is, I can't say I felt more than lukewarm about the episode as a whole.

Edited by Myrcella's Ear
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Gave it a 2.

This season killed my enthusiasm for the show. I'll still watch it, but now it's just another show. I always rave about it to my co-workers, and even got some of them to start watching.Not anymore. Too many off book variations for me. I understand it's an adaptation based on the books, and they have a limited budget, etc, etc....still no excuse to snub the most loyal and true supporters of this show: the book readers.

Stannis should have showed up last week. After the way the show has butchered his character he needed his hero moment.

No LS is UNFORGIVABLE. They knew, KNEW, we wanted her appearance this season. I don't buy the Michelle Fairley scheduling/filming bit either. Am I to believe there are NO actresses in who resemble Michelle, or could have passed for her under the heavy LS make-up and prosthetics? Suck it D&D.

No Tysha....really?

The Asha/Yara story was BS.

This and more makes me wonder what else will they butcher for the remaining seasons. Will they leave out and/or change characters and story lines that make AFFC and ADWD appealing? The KingSmoot, Sand Snakes, Griif and young Griff, Cerci's madness?

I'm not going to take a speed boat to crazytown and not buy the rest of the books or cancel my HBO ( damn you Crashbox, my kids love you so ), but I just feel like shrugging my shoulders when now asked " So, I hear you're big into Game of Yhrones."

Edited by Keep Calm and Imp On
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Something I realized last night: Tommen and Margarey never married. Of course, in the book they marry quickly and quietly after Joffrey's death, but they did not do that on the show. So, what will happen in upcoming seasons? Tywin brokered the alliance, but we know that Cersei is adamantly against it. She sees the Tyrells as threats to her personal power, and schemes to ruin Margaery and alienate the Tyrells. Now that Cersei's in charge, it's possible that marriage will be canceled.

Given her paranoia, it makes sense for Cersei to cancel the marriage. If she's going to plot against the Tyrells, then why allow her son to marry Margaery in the first place? Nip it in the bud. Now, they might have the marriage go through anyway (which would make no sense, but that's par for the course with D&D), but if they don't, how would that affect events in King's Landing?

Edited by Anarchosaurus Rex
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ETA: I have to add the comment that this episode was hyped far too much, and not just by these forums. D and D claimed it was there best episode yet and submitted it for an Emmy. They built themselves up too much, and.as a result expectations were high. Sadly, I do not feel they lived up to thos expectations.

I gave it a 6/10 and that is an optimistic vote, after I have had time to get past my initial annoyances. I'll give a breakdown to explain as best I am able to:

Jon/Stannis/the Wall: Not massively impressive. Jon-Mance dialogue was fine, but where did Mance's Wildling army go? He seemed to have about 10 Wildlings left against the Stannis hordes, which detracted from Stannis' victory and made it much less impressive. Didn't enjoy the interactions of Davos Jon and Stannis at all. The rest didn't bother me too much I suppose.

Bran/Meera/Jojen: *sigh* I had such high hopes for this, it had the potential to be incredible. I don't care that they cut Coldhands out at all, as I believe he is an insignificant character anyway who basically served the role of a guide. All was fine until we get the wight attack. They were flat out ridiculous, surely D and D knew how poor they looked? I know they are supposed to very decayed, but they looked ridiculous. And the CotF fireball attack was pathetic, out of character and frankly bizzare. Before the "OMG BOOK PURIST! KILL IT WITH FIRE!" brigade come along, I appreciated the death of Jojen as it saved the scene somewhat, making the cost of getting there more real. Also, offered us a chance to see Meera pull out some wonderful (albeit brief) acting skills. Dislike the CotF appearance, looked like pantomime costumes. The Cave set was wonderfully eerie, but Bloodraven was a let down, very much so. And the brushing off of the sacrifice of Jojen irked me too.

Brienne/the Hound: I very much enjoyed the dialogue here, and after an initially shaky start (the sword fighting) the duel became wonderfully exciting. Enjoyable scene that undoubtedly boosted my rating of the episode. The Hound had some wonderful acting here too.

Dany: I've been very disappointed with Meereen as a whole this season, but Dany ad my favourite scene of the episode in E10. Some much improved acting on Emilia's part here.

King's Landing: Pretty much everything here except Qyburn and Gregor annoyed me and felt underwhelming. The lack of conflict between Jaime and Tyrion, combined with the "self-defence" killing of Shae by "St. Tyrion" was terrible. Very disappointed with King's Landing this episode

Arya: Maise is a wonderful young actress, and while I had guessed pretty much that her last scene would be exactly this, I never expected it as the season ender. But in hindsight that was a good choice, and Maise was a killer (no pun intended) in all of her scenes this season.

Edited by HelenaAndTheMachine
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But you do know that in the books the wedding is in the second Cersei chapter of Feast ?

It would have been nice to have it before Tywin's death, but they kept that one like in the books.

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But you do know that in the books the wedding is in the second Cersei chapter of Feast ?

It would have been nice to have it before Tywin's death, but they kept that one like in the books.

My mistake, then. For some reason I thought it happened quickly and quietly in SoS. Never mind!

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For me this was a 7 or 8. This season has been the weakest so far. Some of the scenes have felt very rushed. A lot of episodes (minus the opening and closing titles) have been 40 odd minutes long. Seriously! I want 60 minutes each week. It's the biggest show on HBO. Why can't you make it longer. If you had this season wouldn't have been the poorest. Take the battle north of the wall in this episode. Stannis arriving and fighting 100,000 wildings - not, more like 2,000 wildings, if even. The battle is over in 5 minutes. Come on you can do better than that.

I don't mind missing Lady Stoneheart. I had a feeling that they might just leave that character out. If all she does is walk around hanging people that I'm happy for her to be left out. of the show

I'm more pissed that there was NO VAL! Where is my wilding princess! And if she isn't being cast, then how does this play out next season. She is a recurring character in Jon POV's and she is very important in Stannis' plans for integrating the wildings south of the wall.

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What is the most pathetic thing here is being disheartened by someone else's opinion of the show you say you like. If the show is as good as you think, why is your love for it so fragile? Where's the confidence in the stuff you like? I really dislike the show very much, but if I loved it, my opinion would never be disturbed or shaken by the ratings that 46 watchers gave to it. I adore the books, on the other hand, and on book sites like goodreads.com there are always people who heavily criticize ASOIAF and call it pure rubbish, but my love and respect for the books is never disturbed nor shaken by that.

Well said! Great gods - is this still going on, folks? Miodrag has summed up my thoughts perfectly here. I don't make any apologies for loving the show PURELY from an entertainment point of view - and that is how I vote. I'm sorry that I don't apply intellectual critiques to a fantasy TV show that is rollicking fun most of the time for me. ASoIaF is one beast; GOT is a totally separate one. I don't apply literary critiques to the books either. I'm just in it unashamedly for the fun - and the gorgeous production values, and Cersei's frocks ;)

I'm not ashamed to admit any of this - I'm being as honest as I can be. (And Miodrag - I bet I'm even older than you ;))

Now I can understand fans of both shows and books getting passionate about their beloveds, but really - does it matter what other people vote? If you love the show, who gives a flying fuck what the '1 voters' think? If you hate the show, why care about the '10 voters'? It sounds arrogant to say 'other people's opinions don't matter to me' - and in general I'm not that kind of person, but when we're talking about a TV show..... Who cares? So many people loved 'Rome' - I've studied Roman history for 30 years plus, under- and post-grad, and I lasted 3 episodes because it butchered the history as far as I was concerned. But people loved it - good for them. Live and let live. If they found it entertaining, who the hell am I to tell them otherwise?

So that is why I've picked out Miodrag's post to quote here. He and I couldn't be further apart in how we view the show, and yet I fully endorse his point here. Debating certain scenes/plot lines/characters etc. in book or show can be instructive and illuminating. But fighting each other because someone votes 1 and others vote 10? Ack - I confess, it's beyond me...

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Worst. Episode. Ever.

I was liking it until Arya and the Hound.

What happened at the Vale?"Lysa is dead? OK, we'll be on out way."

But your sister is here. "That's nice. We really wanted to see Lysa."

Lord Bealish would want to see you. "We wanted to see Lysa. Let's go."

There are lords who knew your mother and aunt. They will protect you. "Talk to the needle, cause the face don't want to hear it."



All they know is Sansa is married to Tyrion LANNISTER and Littlefinger is an ally of the LANNISTERS. Arya doesn't need protection anymore. Arya needs revenge. She was trained to fight by Ned Stark, Jon Snow, Syrio Forel, Jaqen H'ghar, Berric Dondarrion and Sandor Clegane. Arya is ready to go on her own.

I gave this episode a 7. If I were just judging it as TV show compared to other TV shows it would've been hard for me not to give it a 9 or 10. It was fantastic televisIon.

But as an enthusiastic advocate of the books it probably earned a 4 or 5.

1) "Where do whores go" is one of the great lines from these books. No reason not to put the Tysha stuff in.

2) Tyrion and Jamie parting on good terms changes Tyrion's motivation as a character and makes killing Tywin silly and unnecessary.

3) No "she's been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moonboy for all I know" and Jamie and Cersei are closer than they ever were. That is a fundamental shift in the dynamic of the entire story.

4) As many have stated, making Tyrion killing Shae an act of self defense and crying as she died is cowardly writing to protect a popular character. And I think its wrong. The act of cold-blooded murder gave Tyrion more depth as a character.

This is a great example of "a butterfly flaps its wings and a hurricane" theory. Each of these little changes is going to have rippling effects on the story. What is Tyrion's motivation going to be? How is Brienne's story going to evolve knowing that Arya is alive? How will Cersei end up without all of the sexual misconduct allegations? And what will be her relationship with Jamie? The good thing I guess is we will have a completely different story than what we have read in the books.

As a side note I loved Jojen's death. First he is stabbed repeatedly by the wight, then his sister slits his throat, then he is fireballed. Epic death!

Edited by Steelegrave
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a generous 8

Lady Stoneheart can wait; there's plenty of time to fill next season, it's the last chapter

iirc, and we're not done with Book 3, anyways. Jon hasn't even been nominated for LC, yet, folks...

What bothered me the most are 3 problems, two major and another minor:

1. Character Motivations are veering off wildly. I understand that they need to consolidate characters in order to tell the story at all. I get that POV-as-written limits just what we can learn about these characters, and quite severely. But neglecting the Tysha bit, and aspects of Cersei and Jaime's behavior are rather inexplicable - and that's over the last several episodes, not just this one.

2. No Dalla or Val. I suuuuure hope they are going to be in this, because if not, the entire political structure and customs in The North will be all fucked up. If you don't know yet, google Winterfell Huis Clos for why.

3. Bloodraven.

Even though the dialogue was pretty close, visually it fell down the bland-hole. He just looks like an old dude sitting in a tangle of roots.

No dreaming Lord, no leaves or mushrooms or roots through the body, no indication that he is (much, much) older than Aemon etc.

It could have opened with an extreme closeup of his eye closed, then you see one open as it zooms slowly back. Then you see the other eye but it is sprouting a mushroom or branch through it, until it zooms all the way out and you can see that this is an extremely old, nearly cadaverous man fused with a tree completely.

A real missed opportunity for the fantastical; it felt too much like i was watching a low-budget 80s flick.

on the POSiTIVE:

-Stannis! Stannis! Stannis! It wasn't nearly the surprise as in the books, but a great showing nonetheless. The look Mel gives Jon is telling...

-Sandor and Brienne - as contrived as it was...so what. I get why they did a lot of this. The show really needs 13-15 episodes per season to touch on all the right stuff, but ah well....anyhoo, What a fight!!

-Danaerys' scenes are good. Pretty much as in the books if pared down for obvious reasons.

-Peter muthafukkin Dinklage and Chuck D. nuff said.

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It's an interesting thing about human psychology where regardless of how good something is, the most vocal and visible of any group will be the people who just want to complain. You see examples of it all the time in the public.

How often have any of us been inclined to return to a store to tell the employee just how helpful they were? Very few I would wager. How many of us have been very vocal about even the most minor of complaints and made sure the employees knew about it? Very many I would wager.

The size of the nitpick thread is no testament to the quality of this show (or lack thereof). It is a testament to the fact that some people just want to bitch. (I am now also guilty of this, the irony is not lost on me)

Some of you people are just plain ridiculous. No, the show is not perfect. No, I do not agree with many of the changes they have made. Yes, I wish they were closer to the books. However, it seems as if the books are like your Bible. Anytime someone interprets them a little differently, or anytime your head canon storyboard doesn't play out exactly as you planned, you fly into an unreasonable rage and then you keep coming back next week for more. Clearly D&D are doing something right, especially if the same people keep coming back to complain about the same things.

The people who rate this show at a 1 are just not being intellectually honest. Even the episodes of Game of Thrones rated at a 1 are leagues ahead of other shows right now.

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