LordStoneheart Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Really going to have to disagree with the "more fleshed out" part. so much of his backstory and character is dropped in the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) How exactly is he more fleshed out when the only "new" thing about the character is his "I get sad every time I think of my daughter Elia, because she has the name of my sister" deal? Whereas there's all sorts of little details about him in the novels that don't show up (such as his amicable relationship with Willas Tyrell, despite having been the one to cripple him and despite Willas's father and grandmother hating him?) I'd like an explanation for how he's supposed to be more fleshed out on the show. What bevy of new information about the character is present on the show that surpasses the information presented in the books? Edited July 14, 2014 by Rantonio Valencia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelenaExMachina Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I agree. I don't really have an issue with show Oberyn but I certainly couldn't say I think he is more fleshed out. More obvious (for good reasons, since books dont always translate directly onto screen) perhaps, but he is essentially the same man - family, check. Revenge, check. Passionate, check. Fierce, check. Can't honestly think of anything the show has done to flesh him out more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 He writes porn poems now... did the show turn Oberyn into Rhaegar? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) Hyperbole abounds. Show Oberyn was awesome...much more interesting than he was in the books. His sex scenes didn't actually have much sex in them at all, for all of the complaining. And they ended about other things. But he had some amazing scenes such as his talk with Tyrion in the cell, his talk about his daughters with Cersei and his talk about bastards at the Red Wedding...and oh look, those didn't involve sex.He was the most likable character this season because he's a wild card that shook up everything in KL. He wasn't nearly that cool in the books. Actually, the scene with Oberyn and Tyrion in the cell starts out with.........a brothel mention. It is hard to find an Oberyn scene where he's either not in THE brothel or at least mentioning it. Perhaps, the Cersei scene is lacking a mention of it, but I'd have to double check. Even his scene with Varys in the throne room, brothel mention, and LOL, discussing the bastards of Dorne does involve discussing sex as Oberyn has to point out in dialogue that they are born in passion and not despised. I'd have appreciated some deeper dialogue, touching on the CR visit and at least his varying relations with the Tyrells. Instead, we get man crazy Loras making eyes at Oberyn when I'd rather hear about Willas. Still, Pedro brought Oberyn to life beautifully and deserves even extra credit for having to do so with all THE brothel mentions and scenes. Edited July 14, 2014 by Lady Fevre Dream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 He writes porn poems now... did the show turn Oberyn into Rhaegar? :D Hey, I actually did like that little touch. That and his discussion about his daughter named Elia and how the name sets him off, LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Hey, I actually did like that little touch. That and his discussion about his daughter named Elia and how the name sets him off, LOL It was cute but it can hardly be called fleshing him out more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Actually, the scene with Oberyn and Tyrion in the cell starts out with.........a brothel mention. It is hard to find an Oberyn scene where he's either not in THE brothel or at least mentioning it. Perhaps, the Cersei scene is lacking a mention of it, but I'd have to double check. Even his scene with Varys in the throne room, brothel mention, and LOL, discussing the bastards of Dorne does involve discussing sex as Oberyn has to point out in dialogue that are born in passion and not despised. I'd have appreciated some deeper dialogue, touching on the CR visit and at least his varying relations with the Tyrells. Instead, we get man crazy Loras making eyes at Oberyn when I'd rather hear about Willas. Still, Pedro brought Oberyn to life beautifully and deserves even extra credit for having to do so with all THE brothel mentions and scenes. Actually, Tyrion brought up the brothel, not Oberyn. ;) I could be wrong, but I didn't think that we were going to ever see or hear about Willas? I thought I heard about him getting cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Actually, Tyrion brought up the brothel, not Oberyn. ;) I could be wrong, but I didn't think that we were going to ever see or hear about Willas? I thought I heard about him getting cut. LOL, but that's my point, THE brothel and Oberyn, inseparable. It doesn't matter which character said it. I know we are not going to see Willas, or last I knew we weren't going to see him, the point being.......the complication of the relations with House Tyrell would have been much more interesting than Loras and Oberyn making quick eyes at each other. Then, as usual, there was no reason for it other than to let us know, I guess, that gay and bisexual men can spot each other a mile away? :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I could be wrong, but I didn't think that we were going to ever see or hear about Willas? I thought I heard about him getting cut. He was cut, which IMO diminishes Oberyn's rather unique story of keeping a good relationship with a member of a rival family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 It was cute but it can hardly be called fleshing him out more I agree. I'm just saying, I liked it, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I agree. I'm just saying, I liked it, that's all. Nothing wrong with that. I also enjoyed Pedro as Oberyn. His acting for the part really sold it, and I enjoyed almost all of his scenes. In the end the way they wrote him I disagree with but it's not enraging like it is for other characters. It's just rather questionable, and at the very least I can see why they wanted to attack the audience with his presence. I probably would have made some similar choices had I been a showrunner, but then again if it was me I would've introduced him in "Dark Wings, Dark Words" as a parallel to introducing Olenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 Oberyn wrote poetry in the novels, so they got that detail from there. It's just that Ellaria reveals that in ADwD, rather than it being something foregrounded in ASoS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Oberyn wrote poetry in the novels, so they got that detail from there. It's just that Ellaria reveals that in ADwD, rather than it being something foregrounded in ASoS. hmm... I'd like to see that sometime. would be interesting to see what kind of poems GRRM comes up with here. Any chance of this in the future books or show? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Oberyn wrote poetry in the novels, so they got that detail from there. It's just that Ellaria reveals that in ADwD, rather than it being something foregrounded in ASoS. Thank you for that, somehow.......I did manage to forget about that. Probably because I'm paying more attention to Ellaria's anti-war and revenge speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Nothing wrong with that. I also enjoyed Pedro as Oberyn. His acting for the part really sold it, and I enjoyed almost all of his scenes. In the end the way they wrote him I disagree with but it's not enraging like it is for other characters. It's just rather questionable, and at the very least I can see why they wanted to attack the audience with his presence. I probably would have made some similar choices had I been a showrunner, but then again if it was me I would've introduced him in "Dark Wings, Dark Words" as a parallel to introducing Olenna. Pedro was amazing, I'm still upset there wasn't an Emmy nod for him. I would have been all for meeting him earlier on the screen, but I do fear it would have just meant more scenes at THE brothel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Pedro was amazing, I'm still upset there wasn't an Emmy nod for him. I would have been all for meeting him earlier on the screen, but I do fear it would have just meant more scenes at THE brothel. If they'd just give THE brothel a name. I like, "The Little Finger." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 If they'd just give THE brothel a name. I like, "The Little Finger." But it's the Biggest, Bestest Brothel in the world, EVAH!! You want to tag it with the word "Little?" Fer shame, LOL Eh, then again, the Porn of Dorne may just out do the place, time will tell. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 But it's the Biggest, Bestest Brothel in the world, EVAH!! You want to tag it with the word "Little?" Fer shame, LOL Eh, then again, the Porn of Dorne may just out do the place, time will tell. ;) Dirty Jaime and the Porn of Dorne, that has such a nice ring to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ground_control Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I agree. I don't really have an issue with show Oberyn but I certainly couldn't say I think he is more fleshed out. More obvious (for good reasons, since books dont always translate directly onto screen) perhaps, but he is essentially the same man - family, check. Revenge, check. Passionate, check. Fierce, check. Can't honestly think of anything the show has done to flesh him out more. Agreed. Book Oberyn: Mad, bad, and dangerous to know Show Oberyn (Shoberyn?): Mad, bad, and dangerous to know Most of season 4 had pretty weak writing, so people calling out Oberyn as a special case confuses me. If I was going to say show Oberyn was "more fleshed out", it would be relative to other characters in the show, not relative to book Oberyn. As far as the number of brothel scenes, as I've said before: we have a new character known (in the books) as a sexually adventurous man who frequents brothels, and an empty brothel set (since the character most associated with it is in the Vale this season). I'd agree that the writers were "lazy" and focused a bit too much on Oberyn's sexy side (as a % of dialog), but they didn't ignore his other sides. Also, I appreciated that they didn't interpret his bisexuality as making him feminine (as I'd argue the show did with Renly's and Loras's homosexuality). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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