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Bringer of Rain

[BOOK SPOILERS] Fate of Jojen Reed

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It fits with what we know from the books. Jojen knows when he will die, and Meera wants him to fight for his life, while he just accepts his fate.


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My theory on why they made him look more human was so unsullied did not get a bad first impression if the guy, if they had kept his appearance the same as in the books most people would think "oh shit, bran just wandered into westeros sauron's lair.

Keeping this in mind it is my belief that they whitewashed jojens sacrifice for bran so as not to turn viewers away from liking his character, whether he would have known he was eating jojen or not I believe a lot of people would have been out off by any form of cannibalism, and thus not feel sympathy for that character anymore.

I'm not saying that the whitewashing was the right approach to take but it really seems like that's what's going on to me.

The fact that they kept tyrions nose after the battle if black water shows that they are not beyond a shallow whitewashing or two. I don't know about anyone else but I would still like Peter dinklage as a character in the show without a nose. Just because some American are too shallow to like a character because they are maimed, ugly, or otherwise abnormal doesn't mean that everyone will be.

As for your first point about BR, that's entirely possible. Judging from the reactions of the Unsullied in the "What your unsullied friends and family thought" thread, some people still think that Bran has just entered Saruman's lair. Having him talk to a rotting almost-corpse may not have been the best idea and after all the emphasis we've had on the Thenns being bad because they are cannibals, Jojenpaste may not have been such a good idea either.

Concerning Tyrion's nose: That was a matter of practicality. There are only four ways to show a noseless character:

1) choose a noseless actor, which Dinklage is not

2) cut of the actors nose for real (not even going there)

3) use extensive prosthetics (practical if it's a small role with an actor who doesn't appear to often, not practical with your main cast)

4) use CGI to remove the nose in post-production (expensive and thus impractical)

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He was a disappointment from start to finish - mainly from the writing and directing.

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It seemed to me that the finale didnt necessarily debunk the jojen paste theory, if anything it may have reinforced it through whitewashing. Bare with me here...

In the novels, bloodraven is borderline "evil" looking, he barely had any skin left on his face, there's a root growing out of his eye and through his cheek, and various other roots growing in and out of him. My theory on why they made him look more human was so unsullied did not get a bad first impression if the guy, if they had kept his appearance the same as in the books most people would think "oh shit, bran just wandered into westeros sauron's lair.

Keeping this in mind it is my belief that they whitewashed jojens sacrifice for bran so as not to turn viewers away from liking his character, whether he would have known he was eating jojen or not I believe a lot of people would have been out off by any form of cannibalism, and thus not feel sympathy for that character anymore.

I'm not saying that the whitewashing was the right approach to take but it really seems like that's what's going on to me.

The fact that they kept tyrions nose after the battle if black water shows that they are not beyond a shallow whitewashing or two. I don't know about anyone else but I would still like Peter dinklage as a character in the show without a nose. Just because some American are too shallow to like a character because they are maimed, ugly, or otherwise abnormal doesn't mean that everyone will be.

Personally I'd love it if they did away with the whitewashing, maybe I'm alone here.

I don't want to derail this thread and turn it into the "BR" thread but I sincerely hope that was not D&D's line of thinking when considering the introduction and appearance of BR and the CotF. Bloodraven is meant to be an eery and mysterious figure. It's an important part of his character and mystique both before and after he merges with the weirwood. To remove that element and make him a Saruman-looking generic wizard guy because some viewers "might be confused" or scared for Bran is ridiculous. You're meant to be scared for Bran and unsure of Bloodraven's motivations. That's exactly what's intended.

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I don't want to derail this thread and turn it into the "BR" thread but I sincerely hope that was not D&D's line of thinking when considering the introduction and appearance of BR and the CotF. Bloodraven is meant to be an eery and mysterious figure. It's an important part of his character and mystique both before and after he merges with the weirwood. To remove that element and make him a Saruman-looking generic wizard guy because some viewers "might be confused" or scared for Bran is ridiculous. You're meant to be scared for Bran and unsure of Bloodraven's motivations. That's exactly what's intended.

I was annoyed too.

Was it that hard to put a bit more make up on him, put some prosthetic roots coming out of his body and having him be one-eyed?

I just don't get it.

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I was annoyed too.

Was it that hard to put a bit more make up on him, put some prosthetic roots coming out of his body and having him be one-eyed?

I just don't get it.

The weird thing is there was a leaked inventory of prosthetics used for the episode (for an Emmy submission I believe) and Bloodraven's prosthetics were in there. But in the episode there were no prosthetics at all I could see.

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I don't want to derail this thread and turn it into the "BR" thread but I sincerely hope that was not D&D's line of thinking when considering the introduction and appearance of BR and the CotF. Bloodraven is meant to be an eery and mysterious figure. It's an important part of his character and mystique both before and after he merges with the weirwood. To remove that element and make him a Saruman-looking generic wizard guy because some viewers "might be confused" or scared for Bran is ridiculous. You're meant to be scared for Bran and unsure of Bloodraven's motivations. That's exactly what's intended.

Trust me I get it, I've read the books. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around why they would change his appearance as they did, seems like more d&d whitewashing to me.

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Maybe David and Dan just want us to be surprised when in the next book we get a serving of Jojen Pasta.

Keep telling yourself that.

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The weird thing is there was a leaked inventory of prosthetics used for the episode (for an Emmy submission I believe) and Bloodraven's prosthetics were in there. But in the episode there were no prosthetics at all I could see.

I know. If I were one of the Emmy judges and I got that episode on my desk, I would be like "prosthetics? Where?"

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I know. If I were one of the Emmy judges and I got that episode on my desk, I would be like "prosthetics? Where?"

+1. When I saw "full facial prosthetics" listed on the Bloodraven section of the Emmy leak, I thought "Oh my god they are sparing no expense to make him as awesome as in the books!". Instead, they transformed an old actor into a...slightly older actor.

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Trust me I get it, I've read the books. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around why they would change his appearance as they did, seems like more d&d whitewashing to me.

I don't mind a little whitewashing, but, his robe looked like it just came back from the drycleaners. Forget about prostetics and CGI, how about plain old costume design?

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+1. When I saw "full facial prosthetics" listed on the Bloodraven section of the Emmy leak, I thought "Oh my god they are sparing no expense to make him as awesome as in the books!". Instead, they transformed an old actor into a...slightly older actor.

Part of me still hopes that what we saw was just some unfinished cut that somebody forgot to replace and all the good stuff will be on DVD. I won't hold my breath, though.

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Part of me still hopes that what we saw was just some unfinished cut that somebody forgot to replace and all the good stuff will be on DVD. I won't hold my breath, though.

Well most of that Bran sequence seemed somewhat unfinished to me, from the fight all the way through to Bloodraven with his thousand eyes and two (my nerdrage knows no end at this :crying :tantrum: ). I hope you are right, but I won't be holding my breath either.

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I think knowing how/when and actually experiencing it is a bit different.

The surprise could equally have been "I didn't think it would hurt so much"

Or, after watching the scene and taking a close look at his face, it could be more of an "I didn't think it would hurt so little" sort of thing, since one can sustain a fatal wound and feel next to nothing, at least initially. If you look at his face a few seconds later, once Meera's holding him, the pain has definitely hit him by that point.

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