Kudos to Rory McCann (possible book spoilers)

[Karmarni]

It was a fantastic end to the journey of the Hound. I wish it could've started sooner, like in S01. Rory did a great job bringing him to life. I'm glad I got to see my favorite character onscreen, even if he could've had so much more book story.

I think there's a lot more than just tropes or subverting them in his future. GRRM has an active imagination.

Here's to his coming back as Sandor Clegane, having shrugged off the Hound's limitations. Skol!

[RavenKing23]

Umm, you guys do know in nearly every warrior culture suicide is the ultimate cowardice and sun. Mercy killing though are legit, besides Arya was already a killer by then so its not like his blacking up ger soul.

And damn, Rory truely looked like a broken man in that scene so kudos to him. Also is it in Brienne's contract that she only fights top fighter when wounded or damaged? I like the fight but its kinda an empty victory

[Woman of War]

Now the nitpicking after the well deserved praise of McCann, and of show Sandor:

If Sandor returns, within a different storyline and without Arya - will he still be the great character he has been during season 4? I mean it was the actor team of him and Arya who was so great, before McCann has not been so very remarkable, he did not get the story for it and there was little chemistry with other actors. Though it worked with Christie's Brienne just as much. Williams will always be great, with any actor.

And I could only roll my eyes in-story-wise about the complete lack of social competence of the characters, not the actors of course.

It would have been first lesson of conflict training to work out "who can better protect" . Sandor was an idiot, Brienne no less and Arya chose to make it even worse. Three persons behaving ridiculously emotionally stupid. If they had only talked for a minute and listened to the other! So many misunderstandings have comedy quality. The whole mess pushed the story forward, served us a truly great fight, the Sandor goodbye scene - but they were all idiots!

I love the characters but.... :rolleyes:

Edited: i forgot Sandor and Bronn or Tyrion at Blackwater

[Sand11751]

When MCCann was first cast, I'll admit the relationship his character and Turner's own had on the pages made me uncomfortable about how those scenes would be depicted on the show. Simply because of the age difference between the actors, with him being in his forties and her as a teenager. Even as someone who likes the idea of Sansa and Sandor having some sort of "normal" future together, I dreaded the Blackwater scene. I'm especially glad that the deleted scene from season two ended up on the cutting room floor. If GRRM had aged up everyone in the books to begin with, I would have felt differently. Still, I think they picked the best actors for each part - McCann really embodies Sandor's gruffness and Turner has Sansa's naivete down, which was why watching her morph into Alayne felt equally strange and beautiful.

[Rhaenys Reborn]

Rory McCann is a great actor, but he does not make a very good Sandor. Sad, but true. I don't know if it's the case of the character being gentled up and somehow deprived of his depth by the writers or the simple fact the actor is too old for Sandor and doesn't look like the book Sandor in the slightest of ways.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Rory's Sandor numerous times, but he's nothing like the book Hound.

And if GRRM decides for a SanSan reunion with possible sex scenes in the future, sadly the only way I can see it happen in the show is if it doesn't happen at all. There were practically zero SanSan hints in season 1, very few in season 2 (and Sansa's chapters in book 2 almost always include a Sandor scene), zero again in seasons 3 and 4, whereas in the books even after they part, they keep thinking and talking about each other. Even the Sansa mention in a dying moment was flat and looked insignificant in the show. And for all that I blame the fact the casting for Sandor was wrong from the beginning. I said it elsewhere already, age gap of 27 years IS NOT the same as age gap of 16 years. And I seriously don't get how some people don't see it.

Oh, and last thing. The make-up artists totally screwed it up here. You can barely see there is anything wrong with his face. But then again, Tyrion also ended up with nothing but a sexy scar.

[Le Cygne]

It's a story about two characters living in a medieval fantasy world, the ages really are not a big deal at all. Sophie is a woman at 18, and Rory looks fine, they look fine together. Lots of classic romances with big age gaps, Jane Eyre has a 20+ year age gap (and there are lots of similarities to this story).

It's not nearly as good as the books, not even close, but they are telling the story, and some of the scenes have been quite good. And Sandor brought Sansa up in season 3, "if you ever see her again" (below). And they hinted the connection throughout season 4, lots of little things. I thought the moment when he was "dying" was beautiful.

"There's plenty worse than me. There are men who like to beat little girls. Men who like to rape them. Saved your sister from some of them."

"You're lying."

"Ask her, if you ever see her again. Ask her who came back for her, when the mob had her on her back. They would have taken her every which way and left her with her throat cut open."

[Iralius]

Rory McCann is a great actor, but he does not make a very good Sandor. Sad, but true. I don't know if it's the case of the character being gentled up and somehow deprived of his depth by the writers or the simple fact the actor is too old for Sandor and doesn't look like the book Sandor in the slightest of ways.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Rory's Sandor numerous times, but he's nothing like the book Hound.

And if GRRM decides for a SanSan reunion with possible sex scenes in the future, sadly the only way I can see it happen in the show is if it doesn't happen at all. There were practically zero SanSan hints in season 1, very few in season 2 (and Sansa's chapters in book 2 almost always include a Sandor scene), zero again in seasons 3 and 4, whereas in the books even after they part, they keep thinking and talking about each other. Even the Sansa mention in a dying moment was flat and looked insignificant in the show. And for all that I blame the fact the casting for Sandor was wrong from the beginning. I said it elsewhere already, age gap of 27 years IS NOT the same as age gap of 16 years. And I seriously don't get how some people don't see it.

Oh, and last thing. The make-up artists totally screwed it up here. You can barely see there is anything wrong with his face. But then again, Tyrion also ended up with nothing but a sexy scar.

I think McCann was a good choice - I can understand how he's nothing like the book Hound... but, in a way, I like his portrayal of the Hound more than the book Hound. In the show he does have a better relationship with Arya - I don't mean this as in a good relationship, but they actually had something beyond a meal ticket and hate. The show depicting the Hound as this grim, gallows humour antihero goes miles better than the fatalistic antihero in the books.

But - I still love them both. Show Hound for the chemistry with Maisie and book Hound for the fatalistic bastard.

[The Witch]

Rory McCann is a great actor, but he does not make a very good Sandor. Sad, but true. I don't know if it's the case of the character being gentled up and somehow deprived of his depth by the writers or the simple fact the actor is too old for Sandor and doesn't look like the book Sandor in the slightest of ways.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Rory's Sandor numerous times, but he's nothing like the book Hound.

And if GRRM decides for a SanSan reunion with possible sex scenes in the future, sadly the only way I can see it happen in the show is if it doesn't happen at all. There were practically zero SanSan hints in season 1, very few in season 2 (and Sansa's chapters in book 2 almost always include a Sandor scene), zero again in seasons 3 and 4, whereas in the books even after they part, they keep thinking and talking about each other. Even the Sansa mention in a dying moment was flat and looked insignificant in the show. And for all that I blame the fact the casting for Sandor was wrong from the beginning. I said it elsewhere already, age gap of 27 years IS NOT the same as age gap of 16 years. And I seriously don't get how some people don't see it.

Oh, and last thing. The make-up artists totally screwed it up here. You can barely see there is anything wrong with his face. But then again, Tyrion also ended up with nothing but a sexy scar.

:agree: Originally. But the last episode really made me rethink how I viewed Rory as the Hound in the show. I still don't think he matches up to the book version but I can definitely see him in his own light now, mostly because Rory showed real range and got some fierceness, which set aside the issues of him being so much older than he should be and, well, passive. I still don't know if he can pull off anything romantic as in Sansan, but I am looking forwards to seeing more of him now, mostly because I have hope for him having some good scenes to call his own. He had so many scenes cut and in season 2 he practically regurgitated speeches about killing, so in all he was a shadow of what he should be. I know that is a writing issue, but I honestly thought it could have been because Rory just did not have the range, that scene between him and Sansa that got cut was not good at all.

Apparently he did have a better scar, but it got dropped because it was too hot and itchy, dunno if that is true or not, but it's what I heard.

[Seneti]

Chickens everywhere celebrated The Hound's "death."

:lmao: Now I want to see D&D reintroduce him through a scene in which there's some frightened chicken in the background laying an egg out of fear.

And if GRRM decides for a SanSan reunion with possible sex scenes in the future, sadly the only way I can see it happen in the show is if it doesn't happen at all. There were practically zero SanSan hints in season 1, very few in season 2 (and Sansa's chapters in book 2 almost always include a Sandor scene), zero again in seasons 3 and 4, whereas in the books even after they part, they keep thinking and talking about each other. Even the Sansa mention in a dying moment was flat and looked insignificant in the show. And for all that I blame the fact the casting for Sandor was wrong from the beginning. I said it elsewhere already, age gap of 27 years IS NOT the same as age gap of 16 years. And I seriously don't get how some people don't see it.

Oh, and last thing. The make-up artists totally screwed it up here. You can barely see there is anything wrong with his face. But then again, Tyrion also ended up with nothing but a sexy scar.

1) I thought his Sansa mention in his dying moment was very poignant and well-done. They way he said it... the fact that he singled out "being with Sansa", even in his own twisted way, as being the only happy moment he would have had in his life... How was that flat and insignificant?

2) I don't know, for me a gap of 27 is the same as a gap of 16, so long as it's all consensual. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

3) The make-up artists did not screw up. They did try to have Rory wear "proper" Hound make-up, but it impaired his vision, which tends to be kind of a big deal when the actor is supposed to film fight scene. I prefer safe Rory over anatomically correct Hound.

[Nutbean]

Even the Sansa mention in a dying moment was flat and looked insignificant in the show.

I completely disagree with that.

When he says "your pretty sister" he looks away from Arya, up at the sky in, what looked to me, a very wistful manner. After he says "at least I'd have one happy memory" he looks like he is about to cry!

[Karmarni]

Age gap is what it is *in the show*. And we don't know how old Sandor is on the show. It's fictional, it's acting. This is the nature of this beast.

Anyone who was OK with Sansa with Tyrion or OK with her and Baelish should have no issue with Sandor, age-wise.

And he thought of Sansa and 'happiness' together. Look at what he actually did in the show at Blackwater vs what he was goading Arya on with.

It's like Gwendoline Christie says in the fight featurette, when the costume and makeup are on the actor is the Hound.

[RattleSnake]

Age gap is what it is *in the show*. And we don't know how old Sandor is on the show. It's fictional, it's acting. This is the nature of this beast.

Anyone who was OK with Sansa with Tyrion or OK with her and Baelish should have no issue with Sandor, age-wise.

And he thought of Sansa and 'happiness' together. Look at what he actually did in the show at Blackwater vs what he was goading Arya on with.

It's like Gwendoline Christie says in the fight featurette, when the costume and makeup are on the actor is the Hound.

I agree. Well said.

[Davrum]

I don't know, for me a gap of 27 is the same as a gap of 16, so long as it's all consensual. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Different strokes indeed, but for me it's a little meaningless to simply look at the age gap without also factoring in the actual ages. I mean, there's a 16 year age gap between a 13 and a 29 year old and the same age gap between a 29 and a 45 year old, but those dynamics are far from equal.

In-show it plays as a 16 year old girl and a man in his mid 30s at the earliest, but one who looks mid-late 40s due to the miles on his body. Even if they wait until the very end to reunite them it'll be a 20-ish girl and a man who looks like he's literally been through death. Either way it would be hard to sell to the show watchers.

[RattleSnake]

I just want to add something:

Aidan Gillen (Baelish) is 46. (he kisses Sansa)

Peter Dinklage (Tyrion) is 45 (married Sansa)

Rory Mccann(Sandor Clegane) is 45.

If it's ok to have Sophie kiss Aidan...why isn't it ok to have her kiss Rory? I am not saying it's gonna happen 100%. But I am just asking.

Edit: spelling

[Davrum]

I just want to add something:

Aidan Gillen (Baelish) is 46. (he kisses Sansa)

Peter Dinklage (Tyrion) is 45 (married Sansa)

Rory Mccann(Sandor Clegane) is 45.

If it's ok to have Sophie kiss Aidan...

Wait, wait, wait ... who in seven hells thought it was ok to have Sophie kiss Aidan? That was the creepiest scene in the whole show so far, and I include all the horrors that went down at Crasters.

[RattleSnake]

Wait, wait, wait ... who in seven hells thought it was ok to have Sophie kiss Aidan? That was the creepiest scene in the whole show so far, and I include all the horrors that went down at Crasters.

Well the show was ok with it...and the actors were ok with it. It doesn't bother me because it is acting. After all we don't have a say on what they do with the show or the books. So we have to just go with what we will get.

[The Witch]

Different strokes indeed, but for me it's a little meaningless to simply look at the age gap without also factoring in the actual ages. I mean, there's a 16 year age gap between a 13 and a 29 year old and the same age gap between a 29 and a 45 year old, but those dynamics are far from equal.

In-show it plays as a 16 year old girl and a man in his mid 30s at the earliest, but one who looks mid-late 40s due to the miles on his body. Even if they wait until the very end to reunite them it'll be a 20-ish girl and a man who looks like he's literally been through death. Either way it would be hard to sell to the show watchers.

That's the whole issue though, for some of us at least.

Rory unfortunately does look his age, Aiden is the same age but that kiss was not meant to be a good thing.

Selling Rory as the Hound is one thing, selling him as a possibility with Sansa is quite another.

That combined with the fact they completely dropped all the build up scenes between him and Sansa . . .

[Davrum]

Well the show was ok with it...and the actors were ok with it. It doesn't bother me because it is acting. After all we don't have a say on what they do with the show or the books. So we have to just go with what we will get.

Oh, haha, no I don't think the conversation is about whether the actors are ok with it, it's about how it plays in the story. Obviously Sophie and Aidan and the showmakers were fine with it, but it played as supremely gross. If Sandor is ever to kiss Sansa they'll be going for a different vibe entirely one would think.

[Davrum]

That's the whole issue though, for some of us at least.

Rory unfortunately does look his age, Aiden is the same age but that kiss was not meant to be a good thing.

Selling Rory as the Hound is one thing, selling him as a possibility with Sansa is quite another.

That combined with the fact they completely dropped all the build up scenes between him and Sansa . . .

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

I had less of a problem with Rory's high age though since I've never been too invested in the whole SanSan dealio.

[RattleSnake]

Oh, haha, no I don't think the conversation is about whether the actors are ok with it, it's about how it plays in the story. Obviously Sophie and Aidan and the showmakers were fine with it, but it played as supremely gross. If Sandor is ever to kiss Sansa they'll be going for a different vibe entirely one would think.

I like Rory as the Hound...but I always wished he was a bit younger. The Hound is 29 when he 'dies',not 45 as Rory is.

All we can do is wait and see what they will do with the whole story.