[Book Spoilers] The Hound

[Dya of Oldstones]

I think their marriage was put in there as plot armour so that LF can't marry Sansa off straightaway. Unless Tyrion (or Sansa) dies then they are going to have to address their marriage someday. There is so much forshadowing and symbolism around Sansa and the Hound in the books that there has to be more to come. Its a shame the show couldn't have snuck a few more of those little gems from the books for us to spot.

That makes sense to me, even tho I heard Sophie Turner at the Comic Con panel mentioning she saw Sansa and Tyrion as a Brangelina power couple. Whether it's a red herring or show foreshadowing is still TBD. I know she loved working with Peter Dinklage, but so has everyone else who's had a chance to work with him.

I'm still holding out hope to see Sandor/The Hound make a comeback, and his remark about "unless there's a maester hiding behind that rock" gave me a sense of hope we will see him return to the show as well as the books. I would love to see Rory come back as well.

[Annara Snow]

That makes sense to me, even tho I heard Sophie Turner at the Comic Con panel mentioning she saw Sansa and Tyrion as a Brangelina power couple. Whether it's a red herring or show foreshadowing is still TBD. I know she loved working with Peter Dinklage, but so has everyone else who's had a chance to work with him.

I'm still holding out hope to see Sandor/The Hound make a comeback, and his remark about "unless there's a maester hiding behind that rock" gave me a sense of hope we will see him return to the show as well as the books. I would love to see Rory come back as well.

She didn't say she saw them as a power couple, she said something like "I'd love them to reunite and maybe they could become a power couple... like Brangelina" (laughter in the audience). I'm pretty sure that was a joke, at least the "Brangelina" part. Especially since she's made it clear many times, including in those Comic Con comments, that Sansa has no romantic feelings for Tyrion (she even started her comments by joking about their marriage: "he was my other half, we loved each other so much, couldn't you feel the love?" and making the audience and George laugh; they also, including George, laughed at a lot at the "Brangelina" comment). And to the extent she may have been serious about the power couple thing, it sounded like she was trying to make the obvious shipper who asked the question feel good, before she went on to talk about how much she loved her dress. In any case, if she had been told that this is what was actually going to happen, I doubt she'd ever say anything like that in public. (Or that George would find it that hilarious.)

BTW there was an interview where Isaac said he's love for Bran to become a villain, because it would be fun to play. This lead to a bunch of people discussing it on WiC as if it meant that there was a serious possibility this may happen. I'd say, if Isaac has been told anything about Bran's future, then those comments make it a lot less likely Bran is going to be a villain, because he would never be allowed to reveal it.

[Dya of Oldstones]

I took it as tongue in cheek from Sophie too, and I know the cast members themselves don't know what's going to happen until they get their scripts. I'm still annoyed at Lena Headey for the LSH teaser that we didn't get at the end of season 4. :p

Still looking forward to Rory returning, but I'm suspecting we may have to wait for the end of the season if he shows up at all, but more likely Season 6. The Gravedigger may need some time, since it looks like he's been healed from the brink of death rather than brought back from the dead. I still think there was a maester lurking behind the rock. :D

[Mad Madam Mim]

It must be contractually difficult for the show for actors who are due to appear in later books but are not needed for the current season as they are presumed dead. Although I suppose the show has already had to deal with this for LSH (if she ever shows up) and I don't recall Gendry being in the current season. They managed to worm in extra scenes for Theon when in the books he was missing for a large chunk so it could go either way.

I really hope they get the Gravedigger scene in, however Brienne has now seen Sandor so this could have several implications for how the show manages it:

Possible options:

a) it won't be Brienne who does that particular scene but a different character who meets the EB

b) It is Brienne but she never sees his face. This would need to be done well because I doubt there are many hulking, huge men around Westeros.

c) Brienne recognises Sandor and they have dialogue. Perhaps it could be even be Sandor that tells her his story instead of the EB.

Thoughts?

[Annara Snow]

I don't think we'll see him through Brienne at all. I think this only had to happen in the books because of the POV structure.

[Le Cygne]

I really hope they get the Gravedigger scene in, however Brienne has now seen Sandor so this could have several implications for how the show manages it:

Possible options:

a) it won't be Brienne who does that particular scene but a different character who meets the EB

b ) It is Brienne but she never sees his face. This would need to be done well because I doubt there are many hulking, huge men around Westeros.

c) Brienne recognises Sandor and they have dialogue. Perhaps it could be even be Sandor that tells her his story instead of the EB.

Thoughts?

Gwendoline Christie: "I didn’t just want it to be a fight, I wanted it to be a physical story that was being told.... It just looks beautiful and earthy and surreal and it’s a complex emotional scene - and it’s not over yet." He said it was hard to film because he had to try hard not to hurt her, since he's bigger and stronger, she's saying the same thing, he's bigger and stronger.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/15/game-of-thrones-hound-brienne-finale-fight/

I'd rather they just skip the scene where they meet at the Quiet Isle. I wanted to see it, very much, but now I'd rather they keep them apart as long as possible. I just don't trust them to get it right, not at all. I wish they'd just write their own scene, rather than muddle this one. Brienne is not the same character as in the books, it just wouldn't work.

I think the scene where Brienne and Sandor cross paths in the books was so important, the beautiful way their journeys crossed, but also the parallels of the two Beasts in the story, meeting the Elder Brother. I would have loved to see it. But they decided to have one Beast almost kill the other, rather than go in for subtle characterization.

Would have been nice to see Sandor talk about Sansa to the Elder Brother, she was on his mind when he was "dying" and he had to have given him an earful, like Brienne gave the Elder Brother about Jaime. This would have been a good way for the audience to hear Brienne's feelings, too, and make the connection of the two Beauty and the Beast stories being told. I think the show audience would love to see the love stories told properly, just as much as book readers have loved reading them.

[Dya of Oldstones]

Gwendoline Christie: "I didn’t just want it to be a fight, I wanted it to be a physical story that was being told.... It just looks beautiful and earthy and surreal and it’s a complex emotional scene - and it’s not over yet." He said it was hard to film because he had to try hard not to hurt her, since he's bigger and stronger, she's saying the same thing, he's bigger and stronger.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/15/game-of-thrones-hound-brienne-finale-fight/

I'd rather they just skip the scene where they meet at the Quiet Isle. I wanted to see it, very much, but now I'd rather they keep them apart as long as possible. I just don't trust them to get it right, not at all. I wish they'd just write their own scene, rather than muddle this one. Brienne is not the same character as in the books, it just wouldn't work.

I think the scene where Brienne and Sandor cross paths in the books was so important, the beautiful way their journeys crossed, but also the parallels of the two Beasts in the story, meeting the Elder Brother. I would have loved to see it. But they decided to have one Beast almost kill the other, rather than go in for subtle characterization.

Would have been nice to see Sandor talk about Sansa to the Elder Brother, she was on his mind when he was "dying" and he had to have given him an earful, like Brienne gave the Elder Brother about Jaime. This would have been a good way for the audience to hear Brienne's feelings, too, and make the connection of the two Beauty and the Beast stories being told. I think the show audience would love to see the love stories told properly, just as much as book readers have loved reading them.

Loved The Hound/Brienne fight scene as a stand alone, but in context of the story line from the book, not so much. I'm a little worried about how The Vale and Riverlands are going to play out on the show too, with Sansa's arc in aFFC pretty much ending last season. May get spoilery....or not depending if TWOW is out by then.

ETA: from what little I know, Rory himself isn't too keen on SanSan.

[Le Cygne]

What the actors say doesn't mean a damn thing, but since you brought it up... I think he's just fine with returning to the show as the love interest of a main character. He just didn't want to seem like he (Rory) wanted to bang a young teenager. Now that she's 18, no worries. He tipped the fans off about the dying scene, someone just asked if they'd reconnect, and he said yeah, there might be love.

[Dya of Oldstones]

What the actors say doesn't mean a damn thing, but since you brought it up... I think he's just fine with returning to the show as the love interest of a main character. He just didn't want to seem like he (Rory) wanted to bang a young teenager. Now that she's 18, no worries. He tipped the fans off about the dying scene, someone just asked if they'd reconnect, and he said yeah, there might be love.

Relieved to hear that, and hopefully the Vale/Riverlands will be good next season. :)

[Mad Madam Mim]

Gwendoline Christie: "I didn’t just want it to be a fight, I wanted it to be a physical story that was being told.... It just looks beautiful and earthy and surreal and it’s a complex emotional scene - and it’s not over yet." He said it was hard to film because he had to try hard not to hurt her, since he's bigger and stronger, she's saying the same thing, he's bigger and stronger.

I have not seen this quote before but it's interesting that she is suggesting unfinished business.

I actually have an issue with their fight in the show. It was a kick-ass fight but it didn't make much sense to me and seemed pretty silly (but I know this is most likely down to my book snobbery (which I am really trying to get over...really I am)). I loved the pub brawl in the books and Sandor's almost suicidal behavior after hearing about Sansa's marriage, but I thought the way the show handled his actual 'death' speech was excellent.

There will need to drastic changes the QI scene, it just wouldn't make sense now that Sandor and Brienne have met. She (thinks) he is dead...she basically killed him! So the EB's speech will be pretty irrelevant except to explain to the audience the difference between the Hound and Sandor. I do hope they find a way to make it work, just so we can have a glimpse of Rory to keep us going!

[Le Cygne]

I have not seen this quote before but it's interesting that she is suggesting unfinished business.

I actually have an issue with their fight in the show. It was a kick-ass fight but it didn't make much sense to me and seemed pretty silly (but I know this is most likely down to my book snobbery (which I am really trying to get over...really I am)). I loved the pub brawl in the books and Sandor's almost suicidal behavior after hearing about Sansa's marriage, but I thought the way the show handled his actual 'death' speech was excellent.

There will need to drastic changes the QI scene, it just wouldn't make sense now that Sandor and Brienne have met. She (thinks) he is dead...she basically killed him! So the EB's speech will be pretty irrelevant except to explain to the audience the difference between the Hound and Sandor. I do hope they find a way to make it work, just so we can have a glimpse of Rory to keep us going!

I agree with everything you said. I hate hate hate that they had Brienne almost kill Sandor. They pitted my two favorite characters against each other, they already lost me in so many ways, but they really lost me there. I wanted to see his real last fight as his last fight, for him to find out about Sansa, and melt down. That's why he lost the fight. But I did love love love what Rory did in his final death speech. He was wonderful, and I was very happy to see that.

The one happy memory made me think of the unkiss. Now if only they'd tell Sansa's side of the story, the story is so unbalanced at this point. They showed a hint of her dream of him while listening to Lysa "sing", they faded to blur, but no one but book readers would pick that up. And I do want to see Rory again next season, but I don't have much hope for anything when it comes to the show. Out of sight, out of mind, is what I suspect, so we may have quite a wait.

[Annara Snow]

Sadly, the show generally sucks at showing what people feel or that they think of someone who's not around, unless they talk about them. If it was The Sopranos or Six Feet Under or some other show where showrunners don't have a phobia of dream scenes or other ways of getting into the characters' heads, it would be very different, but with this show... They had a total o what, two dream scenes in 4 seasons? Not counting Bran's weirwood visions and Dany in THOTU. Although it seems like this season they will be doing a flashback for one of the characters.

Cersei and Melara at Maggy the Frog.

And there will at least have to be some more visions by Bran.

But most of the time you just get stuff like Jon saying "I missed you, boy" and you're supposed to assume he really did miss Ghost, but just didn't mention him to anyone. There have also been criticisms about the Starks not mentioning each other on the show, someone observed that from the show, we technically don't even know if Sansa knows about Bran and Rickon's "deaths".

[Mad Madam Mim]

Since Sandor left at the BBW there has been hardly any SanSan-ness in the show. I think Sandor mentioned her once to Ayra, once more in his death scene, and I don't recall Sansa mentioning him at all. In the books however, Sansa's thoughts becoming increasingly Sandor-centric after Sandor has left her. Whether in a dream, or just small, delicate touches that nods to this would have been nice. Sansa dosn't necessarily have to say "I fancy the breeches off Sandor" (although I probably wouldn't have minded if she did), but there are subtle ways of showing that he on Sansa's mind. For example, the scene after the Lords Declarant and Sansa is sewing in her chamber and talks to LF, perhaps she could have been sewing a dog or something (I'm sure the show could rustle up something far more interesting than that but I hope you see what I mean).

[Le Cygne]

I totally agree. Interesting that you brought that up, look at this picture, because a dog does actually get sewn up this season. :lol: I looked at all the things they said and did, and my conclusion is, they are trying to hint with subtext at what's to come, they just do a really bad job of it. They are very bad at telling romantic stories. They are fond of the big moment, the surprise that comes out of nowhere. But love doesn't come out of nowhere.

[Dya of Oldstones]

I totally agree. Interesting that you brought that up, look at this picture, because a dog does actually get sewn up this season. :lol: I looked at all the things they said and did, and my conclusion is, they are trying to hint with subtext at what's to come, they just do a really bad job of it. They are very bad at telling romantic stories. They are fond of the big moment, the surprise that comes out of nowhere. But love doesn't come out of nowhere.

So true. I'm just hoping the pairing actually makes sense to the unsullied if and when it happens.

In the show's defense, I would say Sophie mentioned so much of Sansa is internal, she has less dialogue and action to work with and the challenges for her to bring Sansa to life on screen. Still keeping my fingers crossed.

[Le Cygne]

She has less to work with because they give her less to work with. It's not hard at all to show these things. They just have to see her own story is as important as the stories of those around her. Haven't seen much evidence of that yet.

As for the story, I think they bent over backwards in season 4 to make Sandor seem appealing to the audience, Weiss even said "I would hope you can't help but love the Hound" and they even almost had a shirtless scene (and that wasn't for Arya)! :lol:

[Mad Madam Mim]

Haha! Aww that is just the sweetest photo! I think Sandor needs a hug.

Rory did some fabulous acting this season, yes he was given some kick-ass lines (chicken anyone?), but the emotion when he was talking about his burns to Arya was beautifully done. Manly...but heart felt. I agree, the show can do the big moments but the appeal of Sansa/Sandor is the simmering chemistry bubbling away underneath.

Maybe I need to rewatch the season because I think I must have missed a lot of the subtext. However I did wonder in the scene where Sansa is interrogated by the Lords of Declarant and she is recounting her story and she says she had no friends in KL, except one and she pauses. Obviously in its context we take it to mean LF but i wonder if she was talking about someone else...but this is probably just me (desperately) clutching at straws.

[Le Cygne]

I don't know if you saw this interview, Kit Harington appealed to the writers, saying he wished he could show Jon was heartbroken over Ygritte:

The hard thing for me with this season – and I wrote to the writers about it early on – is that I wanted the audience to know he's been missing her. In the books he thinks about her constantly. It's there, written down, that he's thinking about Ygritte. In this he doesn't mention her once until the very beginning of this episode [episode 9 of 10]. The real challenge for me this season was showing the audience that he loves her without saying anything or talking about it. Which is kind of impossible, showing the audience the inner-workings of your head. So I had to find moments of that happening and I hope I did...

He's been going through heartbreak the entire season. Whether you've seen it or not, he's been going through it.

http://www.elle.com/news/culture/kit-harington-dragon-interview

[Colonel Green]

They showed a hint of her dream of him while listening to Lysa "sing", they faded to blur, but no one but book readers would pick that up.

How is that "a hint of her dream of him"? That's a standard shot to show somebody going to sleep (which, er, you shouldn't do with a candle still lit, but that's another story).

Maybe I need to rewatch the season because I think I must have missed a lot of the subtext. However I did wonder in the scene where Sansa is interrogated by the Lords of Declarant and she is recounting her story and she says she had no friends in KL, except one and she pauses. Obviously in its context we take it to mean LF but i wonder if she was talking about someone else...but this is probably just me (desperately) clutching at straws.

Sansa in the show had several friends in King's Landing, so its unlikely that's a reference to the Hound (or, really, to anyone else; it's a pause for dramatic effect in her telling her story).

[Le Cygne]

Maybe I need to rewatch the season because I think I must have missed a lot of the subtext. However I did wonder in the scene where Sansa is interrogated by the Lords of Declarant and she is recounting her story and she says she had no friends in KL, except one and she pauses. Obviously in its context we take it to mean LF but i wonder if she was talking about someone else...but this is probably just me (desperately) clutching at straws.

I definitely think that's where they are going, lots of subtext, watch it again and it stands out a lot more. The dream after listening to "singing" (in the books, "I'll have a song from you"), there was a parallel scene with Arya, where she's in the same position and says, The Hound. And not sure if you noticed the first scene, there was a transition from Sansa to the Hound, and Arya asks, didn't you steal anything from Joffrey before you left, and he says a quick, quiet no. Then in the end, he should have taken her with him.