Balanced review of Stannis [Book Spoilers]

[stannisismyking]

I can't find the interview. I think it was on Winteriscoming.net. She takes about filming and burning a bird. I think she mentioned an eagle.

She would most likely be burning the owl from Episode 9 that the Warg was using then. I'm ok with it being cut. The battle is meant to be Stannis's and Davos's moment.

Do we know for sure that Davos was at the battle in the books? We don't know what point he splits off from Stannis and Mel. I thought it was a fantastic moment seeing the two of them ride up to the camp like that, but in my opinion the only person whose moment it was "meant" to be was Stannis'.

[sj4iy]

Do we know for sure that Davos was at the battle in the books? We don't know what point he splits off from Stannis and Mel. I thought it was a fantastic moment seeing the two of them ride up to the camp like that, but in my opinion the only person whose moment it was "meant" to be was Stannis'.

Didn't Stannis say he left him at East Watch?

[The Drunkard]

Davos was waiting at Eastwatch with Selyse, Shireen, Axell and some of the other useless people. It's where Axell made that joke about a king dressing up a monkey.

[aFeastForDragons]

Do we know for sure that Davos was at the battle in the books? We don't know what point he splits off from Stannis and Mel. I thought it was a fantastic moment seeing the two of them ride up to the camp like that, but in my opinion the only person whose moment it was "meant" to be was Stannis'.

What I mean by that is how it was Davos's idea to go to the Wall so while it is Stannis's big moment. Davos should get a share of the credit although that was lost on the show with it taking a whole season to get from the paper shield to Stannis, Stannis, Stannis!

I really liked how they did it in the show.Having Davos there for the reveal was a great change.

[I'm no Ser.]

I don't know about you guys... but I love the "evil" Stannis music. Stannis is no hero, he's simply The One True King.

I wish they had a scene with Melisandre riding on a horse and burning a eagle with her glare, that would've fit right in with the calvary.

And I don't really buy the idea that blowing the Horn of Joramun can bring the wall down. It seems too deux ex machina and doesn't fit in the books.

I mean, there's a lot resurrection going on in the books but that's something relatively small compared to a horn bringing a massive ice wall down.

After all, death and life are just one breath away.

[Ruin]

I think Stannis would approve of the show's Stannis theme music. It fits well with Dragonstone, and its good sailing music.

[Madmaxepic]

The show's portrayal of Stannis is absolutely terrible, I hate seeing it, how they make this badass king look like a total asshole, and unintelligent too.

[igrewupinKL]

I actually got the same impression as the OP. It was like Stannis was the bad guy for coming and ruining a treaty that was about to be made. Mance wasn't even making any threats....it just seemed off.

and agree about them showing about 50 wildlings, it just gave no sense of how disorganised the wildling army was and how intimidating Stannis was to them.

[Konradsmith]

If you all want to know how the episode "made Stannis seem" then check out how Unsullied have responded to it on various forums and reaction videos. From what I've seen, this episode has made people like Stannis a great deal, especially people who had dismissed him previously. Yes, they excluded the Horn of Winter and made Mance likeable, but they also had Stan arrive just when Mance realized Jon's mission and was sure to kill him. Meaning, he saved Jon, which would be a good thing in the eyes of most of the show's viewership.

I've seen reaction videos of applause to Stan's arrival, so let's not pretend that him showing up was somehow villainous. If his victory over them was made empty by the Wildlings being shown to be sympathetic, then that's a good thing because that is exactly what the book portrayed. Still. I've seen more positive reactions to Stan than ever before from the show. Even without the chant or the burning eagle, they sold this moment from ASOS.

[Bronn Urgandy]

I don't know about you guys... but I love the "evil" Stannis music. Stannis is no hero, he's simply The One True King.

Fucking too right, *smoke clears, Stannis and Davos revealed* DUUUURRR DUUUURRRR DUUUUUUUUUURRRR DUUUUUUUUUURRR! Even managed to trump "Come with me and take this city!" DUUUURRR DUUUURRRR DUUUUUUUUUURRRR DUUUUUUUUUURRR!

Stannis is a guy who in a lesser story would be a major villian, but in this one he always ends up on the good side eventually and his "evil" theme music suits him perfectly, usually coming at his most cheerable moments. This is where show Stannis actually trumps book Stannis. Show Stannis is like a permanent version of the book Stannis in Theon's sample chapter, he's his own character, he's like "yeah I am badass and you just got owned". Not "Robert would've done it better *sulk sulk*". People are genuinely shitting themselves that book Stannis is gunning for them, and he's still got middle child sydrome, people shit themselves when show Stannis comes after them but show Stannis seems to revel in it.... and then DUUUURRR DUUUURRRR DUUUUUUUUUURRRR DUUUUUUUUUURRR!

Sorry guys, but picking on the theme music doesn't cut it for me.

If you all want to know how the episode "made Stannis seem" then check out how Unsullied have responded to it on various forums and reaction videos. From what I've seen, this episode has made people like Stannis a great deal, especially people who had dismissed him previously. Yes, they excluded the Horn of Winter and made Mance likeable, but they also had Stan arrive just when Mance realized Jon's mission and was sure to kill him. Meaning, he saved Jon, which would be a good thing in the eyes of most of the show's viewership.

I've seen reaction videos of applause to Stan's arrival, so let's not pretend that him showing up was somehow villainous. If his victory over them was made empty by the Wildlings being shown to be sympathetic, then that's a good thing because that is exactly what the book portrayed. Still. I've seen more positive reactions to Stan than ever before from the show. Even without the chant or the burning eagle, they sold this moment from ASOS.

Yes, spot on. I've had a show only friend say "I can see what the fuss is about now, he's kinda a dick but he's badass and one of the good guys really." Which is exactly how I'd describe him in the books, in fact I'd say he fares better in the show at this point because the watchers aren't as pompous and don't hold petty grudges like book readers can.

[sj4iy]

I actually got the same impression as the OP. It was like Stannis was the bad guy for coming and ruining a treaty that was about to be made. Mance wasn't even making any threats....it just seemed off.

and agree about them showing about 50 wildlings, it just gave no sense of how disorganised the wildling army was and how intimidating Stannis was to them.

The treaty with Mance saying they'd kill every last man in Castle Black without complete surrender and ended in a stand-off where Jon was essentially a dead man? Oh yes, I'm sure no one thought "yay, someone has come to save Jon!" all all.

[Benjaario Starkharis]

Stannis's "evil" theme is completely badass to me, not evil at all. Melisandre's version of it is far more ominous and dark, which could be interpreted as evil. Stannis's, though, has a more military tone with the drums and all. I love it.

D&D have referred to Stannis as a villain in the past; any nuance to the character is completely over their heads.

Just like many Westerosi, they don't "get" Stannis.

Can we just stop with this hugely misinterpreted quote? All that D.B. Weiss says is that Stannis would most likely be a terrible king, does that mean he thinks Stannis is a villain? And did you watch the Inside the Episode piece of the finale? Look at how they blindly hate Stannis and just can't understand his character at all...

[stannisismyking]

..

Can we just stop with this hugely misinterpreted quote? All that D.B. Weiss says is that Stannis would most likely be a terrible king, does that mean he thinks Stannis is a villain? And did you watch the Inside the Episode piece of the finale? Look at how they blindly hate Stannis and just can't understand his character at all...

I meant to ask earlier where the quote was where one of the Ds said they think Stannis is a villain. Is it that video where they talk about how they don't think he'd be a good king? That's it?

Even as a huge Stannis fan, I could still see how people would think he might not be a great king. But I can't see anyone else in that story being better than him either.

[stannisismyking]

Why would we fans think he wouldn't be a great King or at least better than the others? He's done shit for the realm.

I'm not saying what anyone SHOULD think I'm saying I could see why people wouldn't think he's great. I love him but I don't think he's perfect. It is possible to be a fan of a character and still think they are very flawed.

And yes I do think he'd be better than the others.

[Benjaario Starkharis]

Why would we fans think he wouldn't be a great King or at least better than the others? He's done shit for the realm.

He only started doing shit by the end of ASOS. In ACOK he was just a guy with absolutely no social skills, obsessed with his birthright, who adopted a weird foreign religion that can cast shadow demons to kill other people, including his own brother. We still didn't seen some of his best traits until ASOS, and the way he was presented from Catelyn's POV, one could think of him as a potential villain, making Stark fans fear for a shadow baby coming after Robb after he told Catelyn that Robb's time would come. It wouldn't be logical for a reader who had only read up until that chapter to believe that Stannis would make a better king than Renly based on what had been presented of his character until that point.

[Kyoshi]

love the name, love the avatar.

Never liked Stannis, never understood the fandom. I think he's make a terrible king/ruler, Nero-level bad. But I thought the episode was pretty cool. I'm usually the first person to point out Stannis's flaws...I didn't see any in The Watchers on the Wall. :leaving:

[Game Of Thrones]

love the name, love the avatar.

Never liked Stannis, never understood the fandom. I think he's make a terrible king/ruler, Nero-level bad. But I thought the episode was pretty cool. I'm usually the first person to point out Stannis's flaws...I didn't see any in The Watchers on the Wall. :leaving:

Nero was immensely popular in Greece during his time. He promoted sports, art, and cultural activities.

[Blackfyre Gateau]

No-one saw any Stannis flaws in The Watchers on the Wall, because Stannis wasn't in that episode - He was in the follow-up The Children ;) But I know what you mean, I thought Stannis' arrival was great and the interaction with Mance and Jon Snow was really promising. I always like the way book Stannis seems like a fish out of water in the North - we know he naturally shuns the notion of 'connecting' and building affinity. But while in his perspective the northmen are subjects who owe him allegiance, he shows willingness to take counsel from Jon Snow. I think they'll bring that to life quite well in season 5.

[brakeb4bend]

He only started doing shit by the end of ASOS. In ACOK he was just a guy with absolutely no social skills, obsessed with his birthright, who adopted a weird foreign religion that can cast shadow demons to kill other people, including his own brother. We still didn't seen some of his best traits until ASOS, and the way he was presented from Catelyn's POV, one could think of him as a potential villain, making Stark fans fear for a shadow baby coming after Robb after he told Catelyn that Robb's time would come. It wouldn't be logical for a reader who had only read up until that chapter to believe that Stannis would make a better king than Renly based on what had been presented of his character until that point.

New to the forum (first post). So hi everyone!

I thought that we saw his best traits in the prologue to ACOK which was that he denied to bend the truth in any way. He had practically no chance of winning the throne with his 5000 men, yet he still called rob and renly traitors who he would not negotiate with simply because the throne was his by rights and they were traitors. he was straight and honest from the beginning and also didnt try to please people in any way. in the first davos chapter stannis tells the maester to take out the "beloved" word from the letter he sent to everyone ("my beloved brother robert") simply because it was a lie. i just thought from the very beginning that this guy has massive balls and he thinks that whats true is true. period. and he seemed very just as well. renly on the other hand stabbed his bro in the back so to speak just because he thought stan was not liked or smthng. and when stannis said to catelyn that Robs turn will come, i again was amazed by his balls: he still has 5000 men, is about to face renly, and tells cat that rob will die. and he was right: rob was a traitor who made the north independent and went to war. dont get me wrong i liked him and the starks and was sad at the red wedding, but stan the man knew he was a traitor and said it.

and btw im a stannis fan.

[Blackfyre Gateau]

New to the forum (first post). So hi everyone!

I thought that we saw his best traits in the prologue to ACOK which was that he denied to bend the truth in any way. He had practically no chance of winning the throne with his 5000 men, yet he still called rob and renly traitors who he would not negotiate with simply because the throne was his by rights and they were traitors. he was straight and honest from the beginning and also didnt try to please people in any way. in the first davos chapter stannis tells the maester to take out the "beloved" word from the letter he sent to everyone ("my beloved brother robert") simply because it was a lie. i just thought from the very beginning that this guy has massive balls and he thinks that whats true is true. period. and he seemed very just as well. renly on the other hand stabbed his bro in the back so to speak just because he thought stan was not liked or smthng. and when stannis said to catelyn that Robs turn will come, i again was amazed by his balls: he still has 5000 men, is about to face renly, and tells cat that rob will die. and he was right: rob was a traitor who made the north independent and went to war. dont get me wrong i liked him and the starks and was sad at the red wedding, but stan the man knew he was a traitor and said it.

and btw im a stannis fan.

First, welcome!

I'm also a (begrudging) Stannis admirer.

I don't really agree that the pronounced degree of inflexibility he displayed in ACOK could be construed as one of his "best traits" - I know what your driving at in the sense of his gutsiness (the throne being his by right, not his choice), but when you then talk about his unwillingness to use flowery language or appeal for hearts and minds, you bring back to the surface his huge achilles heel as a player in the game of thrones.

Even if he won every battle and took the Iron Throne by sheer force, he'd be unlikely to sit the IT for long. His personal leadership style might work in a backwater like Dragonstone, or in a hierarchical war camp setting, but in a post-war Westeros with a changed political dynamic (where several of the traditional Great Houses have disappeared and there are rising star big winners) he'll always struggle to maintain the fealty of the nobles if his brand of justice is fully implemented. He'd have to learn to seriously moderate his style to actually sit the IT.

However, if his role is to help re-unite the North, and then go down fighting the good fight against the Others, then the inflexibility isn't such a big deal.