Nictarion Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Well in the books there was no POV around so George couldn't really put it "on-stage." And I doubt the show would actually film a small girl being roasted and eaten by Drogon, it would make it impossible for people to side with Dany, and even harder for the audience to view the dragons as a force for good if they ever help in the battle for Dawn or conquering westeros.As for the Harpies plotting... It's possible that the Harpy just killed the girl and then burnt the bones to make it look like Drogon. That would explain why the guy waited and was so distraught, his actions didn't really seem like he was the Harpies toady so to speak.He could of had it happen inside the city in front of Daenerys herself. I'm just playing devils advocate here though, did Drogon do it? Probably. But considering the amount of time he has been free with no other reported cases, I'm inclined to be a little wary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brute of Bracken Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 The fact that Dany thinks this Harpy plot through and then discards it (as opposed to automatically assuming one side or the other without reflection) makes me think that yes, it was the dragon, and people are in denial because 1. they don't want to admit that she fucked up by not training them (I think even she can admit it at that point) and 2. they want to see the dragons as something other than what they are: predators that don't act based on any sort of moral compass. As I said before, making it nothing but a Harpy plot cheapens the issue, that she hasn't been training them and that they are now out of control and dangerous. It's a direct consequence of her inability to train them, and saying, "Oh it's OK it was just the Harpy lying about it" undermines the conflict of it all. I agree. One takeaway which GRRM likely wanted to give us what that dragons are not lovable beasts / heros / saviors. Like knights, they are lethal - subverting the "dragons are good" trope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 The fact that Dany thinks this Harpy plot through and then discards it (as opposed to automatically assuming one side or the other without reflection) makes me think that yes, it was the dragon, and people are in denial because 1. they don't want to admit that she fucked up by not training them (I think even she can admit it at that point) and 2. they want to see the dragons as something other than what they are: predators that don't act based on any sort of moral compass. As I said before, making it nothing but a Harpy plot cheapens the issue, that she hasn't been training them and that they are now out of control and dangerous. It's a direct consequence of her inability to train them, and saying, "Oh it's OK it was just the Harpy lying about it" undermines the conflict of it all. i agree she could have taken more time in aspect of teaching them as u are the one who has more experience in this forum and story ...i want to know does the wolves were trained by the starks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 i agree she could have taken more time in aspect of teaching them as u are the one who has more experience in this forum and story ...i want to know does the wolves were trained by the starks ... What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brute of Bracken Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 He could of had it happen inside the city in front of Daenerys herself. I'm just playing devils advocate here though, did Drogon do it? Probably. But considering the amount of time he has been free with no other reported cases, I'm inclined to be a little wary. Drogon was chased away from Meereen That's why there are no reports. I'm not saying Drogon actively hunts for children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I agree. One takeaway which GRRM likely wanted to give us what that dragons are not lovable beasts / heros / saviors. Like knights, they are lethal - subverting the "dragons are good" trope The vast majority of fantasy dragons are not "good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 We know dragons can kill children. I also argue that it doesn't make sense if the Harpies killed Hazzea. Then the only logical alternative is that Drogon killed Hazzea. The Harpies can kill Hazzea, But if they did, they would have spread the tale. Why didn't they? because they never wanted to spread any tale ..it was already a tale spread about danny in volantis and other places ..so they dont want to start a new one ... by this they achieved doubts in danny mind and followed with the killing of the unsullied's they started to destabilize danny's reign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Drogon was chased away from Meereen That's why there are no reports. I'm not saying Drogon actively hunts for children. The dragon lands in the pit, flames both the boar and Barsena and eats them both without regard for which is which. Stick a small child in the middle of even a small herd of goats, and she might not even be entirely visible. Maybe she's playing with the herd, who knows. Dragon shows up intending to eat goats, fries a couple of them, and fries the child without actually intending to. Because cooked meat is cooked meat, he eats both the child and the goats without regard for which is which. Would Drogon have actually been hunting for the child specifically? No. Would he have still eaten a child he flamed as collateral? Based on Barsena, I'm going to say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brute of Bracken Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 because they never wanted to spread any tale ..it was already a tale spread about danny in volantis and other places ..so they dont want to start a new one ... by this they achieved doubts in danny mind and followed with the killing of the unsullied's they started to destabilize danny's reign They wanted to plant doubts in the mind of a person who used dragons to burn peaceful envoys, and who crucified 163 slavers, by killing a peasant child? I doubt they thought that Dany was anything less than evil. And even if they did want to do it, it still makes sense to spread the tale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 because they never wanted to spread any tale ..it was already a tale spread about danny in volantis and other places ..so they dont want to start a new one ... by this they achieved doubts in danny mind and followed with the killing of the unsullied's they started to destabilize danny's reign What is the point of propaganda that you don't spread? What good is propaganda that isn't used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 That's a very interesting take on it... I think its certainly possible. It definitely seems more rare that a dragon will eat a human than not. (Rhaenyra was eaten, but at the best of Aegon II). So while I don't think Drogon went after Hazzea, it doesn't mean dragons don't eat humans at all. I don't think dragons are nearly as animalistic as some say since they are definitely creatures of magic, so I wouldn't discount the possibility that Drogon knew something was wrong. Maybe not quite "I killed a girl, that was wrong so bye!" but possibly a "something... something is amiss. fly away!" My dogs do this sometimes even if they actually comprehend what exactly is the problem. I've considered the Harpy plot angle, and while I think its a good possibility, I don't believe so. Even if it's true, I don't think it really takes the blame off of Dany not training them since the effect is the same: Dany herself sees the mistake and danger. I always considered Dany's babies to be wyverns, Wyverns are dragon-like creatures but with only one pair of legs and wings.Dragons are usually pictured with 4 legs and and wings (The European kind) or without legs or with rudimentary small legs and long wingless serpent-like bodies( the Asian kind). The term 'dragon' usually defines every serpent-like or lizard-like mythical creatures, so wyverns are included under the class 'draco',but they are a different species from the actual dragon. Kinda like snakes and lizards..they are both reptiles, but are very different. Wyverns are portrayed as the less intelligent cousins of dragons. They are smaller, more violent and can't talk. Has anyone else considered this? I figured it out that they look like wywerns after watching Merlin a few years ago. In-universe, they are dragons. Dragons as Martin describes them. He says they're dragons, that makes them dragons. Outside perspective, they are still dragons. Not every four limbed dragon is technically a wyvern. There's too much differing cultural traditions of dragon to say that's the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 What is the point of propaganda that you don't spread? What good is propaganda that isn't used? i just wanted to say that the tale was already spread even the slaves in volantis talk about how cruel danny and her dragons..so this may not what they wanted you said danny never trained her dragon ...i wanted know the wolves were trained or not bcoz you see how they act before tyrion and jeyne's family and towards the frey...now we know that they sense that their masters are in danger so they behave like that... so i wanted to ask your opinion whether drogon returned to pit because of crowd or sensing that danny is in danger i never mention that drogon never killed ..but it maybe possible that this all might be the plan of harpies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brute of Bracken Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I agree Dany should have taken more efforts in training her dragons, but am doubtful of the results. She doesn't know anyone who is an expert on dragons. Maybe she could have sent ravens to the Citadel asking for a Maester. Maybe she could have tken more effort herself. But I'm not sure if it would be helpful - I think that dragons are quite dangerous, and if left near humans unbound, might well cause deaths.Even the Targs seemed to keep the dragons tied up in the dragon pit when they were not using them - not letting them loose, like Dany. So maybe lockin up the dragons was the best she could have done, no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Monkey Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 What is the point of propaganda that you don't spread? What good is propaganda that isn't used? Practice? Good points though. Maybe Drogon did feel bad. Maybe as he was chewing on the little girl's femur, he starts getting hazy recollections of the difference between animals in terms of which ones are edible and which ones are edible but shouldn't be eaten. "Four legs good, two legs bag." He starts remembering that Hazzea had two legs just like Mhysa does, and realizes that he done f****ed up bad. He starts looking sheepishly around, wondering if anyone saw him. He doesn't see anyone, so he stashes the burned bones where someone will find them and decides to take off until the heat dies down. Then he hears that Viserion and Rhaegal have been arrested and thinks that maybe the coast is clear after all and that his brothers have taken the blame, so he returns to Meereen again only to find out that things are worse than he ever could have imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 That's a very interesting take on it... I think its certainly possible. It definitely seems more rare that a dragon will eat a human than not. (Rhaenyra was eaten, but at the best of Aegon II). So while I don't think Drogon went after Hazzea, it doesn't mean dragons don't eat humans at all. I don't think dragons are nearly as animalistic as some say since they are definitely creatures of magic, so I wouldn't discount the possibility that Drogon knew something was wrong. Maybe not quite "I killed a girl, that was wrong so bye!" but possibly a "something... something is amiss. fly away!" My dogs do this sometimes even if they actually comprehend what exactly is the problem. I I killed a girl, and I liked it... ♫ Not, really, but what you say about the dogs is kinda true. My cat knows when he does wrong. He doesn't care but he does know. Dragons can bond with people like Direwolves. They probably have a different kind of "smarts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brute of Bracken Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 i just wanted to say that the tale was already spread even the slaves in volantis talk about how cruel danny and her dragons..so this may not what they wanted There were tales about how evil Dany was, yes. But there were no tales of her dragons eating innocent children. That would have probably helped the Harpies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 There were tales about how evil Dany was, yes. But there were no tales of her dragons eating innocent children. That would have probably helped the Harpies. hmm i dont see we both reaching a conclusion here....but we just have to wait till Winds of Winter or next season of the show ..who knows we never get any thing in that also then so we can surely say that drogon really did that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winds of Winter blow cold Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 i agree she could have taken more time in aspect of teaching them as u are the one who has more experience in this forum and story ...i want to know does the wolves were trained by the starks You seem to be having trouble with your phrasing, but if I understand the gist, you either want to know if the wolves were trained, or how the wolves were trained. It's been implied that the Starks all were unconsciously warging them, thus creating the bond they share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon rhaegar stark Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 You seem to be having trouble with your phrasing, but if I understand the gist, you either want to know if the wolves were trained, or how the wolves were trained. It's been implied that the Starks all were unconsciously warging them, thus creating the bond they share. yes iam not very good at phrasing ....i wanted to know that the dragons can be same like wolves are to their starks because we only see danny having problems ...starks had no problem with wolves maybe as you say it was due to the warging they have more control than danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brute of Bracken Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 yes iam not very good at phrasing ....i wanted to know that the dragons can be same like wolves are to their starks because we only see danny having problems ...starks had no problem with wolves maybe as you say it was due to the warging they have more control than danny Or maybe because dragons are simply harder to control than direwolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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