Can we guess something from the comparison with South America?

[Nucky Thompson]

Some time ago I read an interview with GRRM where he stated that Westeros was roughly the size of South America. This is a comparison of size and would be unlikely to signify anything else. However, is it possible that beside this simple similarity in sizes, there are other underlying geographical parallels? A lot of people are theorizing what is the nature of the Others on the basis of an email by GRRM to a certain graphical artist. Could his insight about the size bring some light on the rest of his creative process?

For example, there have been comparisons of the Boltons' flaying practices with a certain Aztec (or was it another tribe) deity. Maybe more has been borrowed in other aspects of the series. The Wall is based on Hadrian's Wall in Britain, but could it be placed at its present location to form what is essentially the chokepoint on top of South America, before the rest of Mesoamerica and after that North America extend? If there is some credence to the theories that the Wall was built to protect the Old Races from men and not vice versa, such a vast land mass would be a logical conclusion. What is more, there have been speculations that the Land of Always Winter could be joined to Asshai or something of the sorts. If our real-world geography serves as a basis, then North America's link to Asia could be seen as analogous.

WIth all that in mind, could it turn that Brandon the Shipwright's fleet didn't after all die in the open seas, but land at some distant location? It could, of course, be a previously unknown continent, or it could be a red herring and nothing else about those guys is ever heard from again in the series. But there is one other possibility: what if by travelling west they either steered off course, or simply the northern landmass is so big, that they landed on a previously unknown part of the Land of Always Winter? They could be the manpower behind the resurgence of the Others (if the theories about Starks and Others being on the same team prove correct). I know that this event is described as taking place a long time ago, but it's not like the Others don't take their time, is it? Being that far into the series, Occam's Razor seems to suggest that if we hear about Brandon the Shipwright's expedition ever again, it has to be in connection with a place we already know, not some new world-building for the sake of travelogue.

And, finally, on the Kingsmoot, the most northwestern of the Ironborn (Farwynd) suggested sailing west and conquering another distant lands. After a while Aeron disappears from the Isles after his failure to impeach Euron. Maybe he took this advice to heart and sailed to find new supporters for his holy cause. There have been theories on the forum about him allying with the Others against Euron - if we factor in the theory about the Land of Always WInter and the eventual presence of Brandon the Shipwright's expedition there (and maybe even Benjen's absence, if he bumped into his kin), there could be a significant storyline in this general area to be told in the next books. What is more, I think that GRRM himself has confirmed that we'd see the Land of Always Winter, hadn't he?

[LordStoneheart]

I recall Ran saying that South America was an overestimation, and the true size would be more like central Europe... Not sure where this I read, but it was a detailed post. Westeros is geographically based on the British Isles but I'm sure other parts of the world may have been an influence here or there

[Señor de la Tormenta]

south america is just to big for Westeros George. Im sorry.

[The Kinkslayer]

The Aztecs were hardly a tribe (their main city was larger than London), they never lived in south america, and they never flayed people, they ripped out the beating hearts of their sacrifices.

If there is an analogy between Westeros and South america is that south america was conquered by people that came from other continent riding strange beasts (horses) and that their rule lasted 300 years.

[TheBlackFlame]

Yes that the people writing the show have no conception of how long it takes to get places.

[TheBlackFlame]

south america is just to big for Westeros George. Im sorry.

So the creator, the guy who decided how big Westeros is or isn't in the first place is wrong? Do you have any idea how you sound?

[Nucky Thompson]

The Aztecs were hardly a tribe (their main city was larger than London), they never lived in south america, and they never flayed people, they ripped out the beating hearts of their sacrifices.

If there is an analogy between Westeros and South america is that south america was conquered by people that came from other continent riding strange beasts (horses) and that their rule lasted 300 years.

Well, I don't know about all this, I meant that guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xipe_Totec Certainly there seem to be some similarities between this myth and Bolton. And it's really a 'close enough' approximation, even if they lived in North America - there doesn't really have to be a scientifically rigorous connection for GRRM to base his book universe on such associations.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

So the creator, the guy who decided how big Westeros is or isn't in the first place is wrong? Do you have any idea how you sound?

Well, he has accepted he's not very good at time and distances.

I mean, many say that Westeros is around the size of England. Look the box at the right: the blue part is UK compared to Perú. And Look how much space Peru has in South América.

http://i.imgur.com/Qtv23YU.png

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Well, he has accepted he's not very good at time and distances.

I mean, many say that Westeros is around the size of England. Look the box at the right: the blue part is UK compared to Perú. And Look how much space Peru has in South América.

http://i.imgur.com/Qtv23YU.png

Well, some others (read: me among them) say that England compares more to the Iron Islands. A bit rough but not too much of an error.

[FireAndBlood.]

Well, he has accepted he's not very good at time and distances.

I mean, many say that Westeros is around the size of England. Look the box at the right: the blue part is UK compared to Perú. And Look how much space Peru has in South América.

http://i.imgur.com/Qtv23YU.png

Well, the UK ≠ England so it's even smaller compared to SA than that diagram suggests.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Well, he has accepted he's not very good at time and distances.

I mean, many say that Westeros is around the size of England. Look the box at the right: the blue part is UK compared to Perú. And Look how much space Peru has in South América.

http://i.imgur.com/Qtv23YU.png

Forgetting Westeros for the time being, I thought I read somewhere that GRRM, or someone LOL, intimated that the size of the land beyond the Wall was the size of Canada?

And, are we using Westeros to be synonymous with The Seven Kingdoms and the lands beyond The Wall? That might be a bit of the confusing part, too. I wish I could remember where I saw something about beyond the Wall being the size of Canada, although, maybe it wasn't anything more than a guess on this board about the size of this or that, LOL

I've always taken the other lands........Essos, from the Free Cities all the way to Asshai, etc....to be about the size of Eurasia combined. I figured the Summer Islands, and places in that area perhaps combined to be a bit smaller than Africa?

To think....I do have the set of maps called The Lands of Ice and Fire but I don't think it comes with square mileage and kilometers, LOL

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Well, some others (read: me among them) say that England compares more to the Iron Islands. A bit rough but not too much of an error.

This reminds me. When I first opened GOT and saw the Westeros map, I actually did think it was a drawing of England, albeit a not exactly correct drawing. I wonder if anyone else ever thought that at first. :blushing:

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Just for all the people still beliving in that stupid theory about England or the UK being somewhat connected to Westeros in size or geography: Take out a ruler, measure the length of the Wall (known to be 300 miles long) on the map in one of your books, measure the length from the Wall to the southern coast of Westeros and do the math.

Friggin 4,000 miles or thereabout. About 15% shorter than the distance between the northernmost and southernmost parts of South America and it does not include the lands beyond the Wall. The Haunted Forest alone is another 500 miles!

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Well, no, he never said Beyond the Wall is about the same size as Canada, he said the geography of Beyond the Wall is similiar to Canada.

And there is no land bridge between Westeros and Essos, he also confirmed that in a SSM.

He said Ibben is about the same size as Iceland, but Ibben looks very big in the maps, which means we know little and less about the known world because their scale is not big enough to show Ibben as Iceland.

[TheWitch]

It's fantasy people! If GRRM wants westeros to be the size of South America, It is! Westeros is big, let's just say that. Also, I believe he said beyond the wall is as big as Greenland :/

[The Bittersteel]

I recall Ran saying that South America was an overestimation, and the true size would be more like central Europe... Not sure where this I read, but it was a detailed post. Westeros is geographically based on the British Isles but I'm sure other parts of the world may have been an influence here or there

I've always assumed this was the case in terms of size. SA is way too big.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Well, no, he never said Beyond the Wall is about the same size as Canada, he said the geography of Beyond the Wall is similiar to Canada.

And there is no land bridge between Westeros and Essos, he also confirmed that in a SSM.

He said Ibben is about the same size as Iceland, but Ibben looks very big in the maps, which means we know little and less about the known world because their scale is not big enough to show Ibben as Iceland.

Thank you for that, I couldn't remember exactly what I read about the Canada thing, but it has always stayed with me and made me think about the size of beyond the Wall along with the Canadian type climate.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I've always assumed this was the case in terms of size. SA is way too big.

And to you as well: Get a ruler and do the math.

[TheWitch]

South America seems super big by what we've read, but that may include beyond the wall. The popular part may be the whole of Europe in size, central west east and south. There's no way it's the size of England. It England goes from mild to pretty cold, not dessert to arctic.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

South America seems super big by what we've read, but that may include beyond the wall. The popular part may be the whole of Europe in size, central west east and south. There's no way it's the size of England. It England goes from mild to pretty cold, not dessert to arctic.

Please, someone of you, please tell me how large you measure Westeros from the given data, and how close that is to South America. Or Europe, for that matter.

Well, unless by "popular part" you mean either the South or North independently from the rest. Now that would be a reasonable comparison.