Season 5 Casting v.2

[Ran]

It's ok if you actually like the direction those scenes were given, but please accept that I disagree and think that the direction sucked *in addition* to the bad writing. Those are my most hated scenes because I think *everything* about them sucked. I'd rather see the show give new directors a shot than bring back the two responsible for the things I hated most this season.

I'll grant that I don't think McLaren is particularly good at _action_.

But the complaints about the Dreadfort scene is all about its scope. "Why isn't there a scene showing how Ramsay gets there" = production decision to not take the time (and money) to show it. "Why just cut to Asha running away" = production decision to not take the time (or money) to shoot anything else.

It sounds like episode 9 completely ate the budget they intended to use for the Dreadfort scene, and Sakharov was left holding the bag.

So rather than ask "Why isn't this scene or that scene there" -- these are questions for the executive producers -- one should just focus at what is there when you wonder about a director's contribution. HE has no control over what scenes the shooting script has, nor the dialog in them and the directions they provide. He's in charge of trying to make it look as good as possible.

I thought Sakharov's use of the limited space in the kennel, for example, was excellent direction on his part.

[Reek Havoc]

And in related news: (Sorry, btw, if this is the wrong thread to stick this in, but I'm not really sure where else to put it, tbh.)

'Game of Thrones' Season 5 Spoilers, Air Date: Sansa Stark to Get New Storyline, Focus on Dorne and King's Landing?

The returning cast of the "GOT" Season 5 includes Lena Headey as Cersei Lannister, Kit Harington as Jon Snow, Peter Dinklage as Tyrion Lannister, Michiel Huisman as Daario Naharis, Maisie Williams as Arya Stark, Joe Dempsie as Gendry and more.

Look who finally gets to give his arms a break.

[Cas Stark]

Thanks, that answers one question, but no mention of Natalia Tena.

[HairGrowsBack]

And in related news: (Sorry, btw, if this is the wrong thread to stick this in, but I'm not really sure where else to put it, tbh.)

'Game of Thrones' Season 5 Spoilers, Air Date: Sansa Stark to Get New Storyline, Focus on Dorne and King's Landing?

Look who finally gets to give his arms a break.

Really wonder what role he'll play. Apparently JD said Gendry comes back after "seeing things that changed him" or something to that effect.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

And in related news: (Sorry, btw, if this is the wrong thread to stick this in, but I'm not really sure where else to put it, tbh.)

'Game of Thrones' Season 5 Spoilers, Air Date: Sansa Stark to Get New Storyline, Focus on Dorne and King's Landing?

Look who finally gets to give his arms a break.

No more row, row, row your boat? LOL

Still, most of that article looks like lifted material from other sources and fan forums, to be honest? I'm thinking the quotes from the D or D, one of them, might be the only material I didn't see before. I think it was Benioff, talking about making a show that succeeds on it's own terms and book deviations and it pissing some people off. That looked new, but still, thanks, interesting to see something from India.

[ground_control]

HE has no control over what scenes the shooting script has, nor the dialog in them and the directions they provide. He's in charge of trying to make it look as good as possible.

I'm not going to pretend to know what things the director controls or doesn't, but my understanding is that (like you said), the director is responsible for the overall presentation of the scene. I'm not going to second guess what his budget was, or what sort of internal discussions or trade-offs might have been made. All I know is that I hated pretty much everything I saw, and he was the director, so all things being equal, I'd chose not to watch something else he directs if I have an option to see something by somebody else.

Obviously, if I want to keep watching GoT and the show continues to use him, I'll have no choice, so I'll suck it up, but that doesn't make me happy about it.

[Colonel Green]

I don't think that article is anything more than speculation based on the books and other interviews, but from that story of a person who met Dempsie he's apparently back next season anyway.

[Mr Fixit]

I'm not going to pretend to know what things the director controls or doesn't, but my understanding is that (like you said), the director is responsible for the overall presentation of the scene. I'm not going to second guess what his budget was, or what sort of internal discussions or trade-offs might have been made. All I know is that I hated pretty much everything I saw, and he was the director, so all things being equal, I'd chose not to watch something else he directs if I have an option to see something by somebody else.

I think you betray a complete failure to understand what directors do in a TV show.

[Chebyshov]

Thanks, that answers one question, but no mention of Natalia Tena.

I'm wondering if they'll keep Davos's story-line the same. Even if there's a Manderly/Umber merge ( :ack:), Davos hunting down Rickon at the behest of a Northern Lord seemed like it should be an important plot-point.

[Ran]

Most of your complaints, re: Sakharov, were about things that weren't on the table to be presented, though, so I remain confused about why this is being held against him. You don't need you to pretend that you do or don't know something, you just need to accept that the director directs scenes that are in the script, nothing more or less. If it's not in the script, he can't do anything about it. He cannot create scenes out of thin air if they are not scripted. If no scene is written showing Ramsay getting from point A to point B, he can't do anything about it. Or if there were a scene planned that did that, but then at the last minute they decide they can't afford it, there's nothing he can do about it either.

Basically, it sounds like there were some serious production time/budget issues that seriously impacted the Dreadfort stuff, leaving some very bare bones scenes with minimal budget to work with. He made the best he could of the situation, and his actual direction of the set piece, for example, is excellent I think.

Anyways, using that particular situation as a reason to rate him poorly seems quite unfair. Just as someone holding the bear pit against Maclaren, say, would be unfair -- it was obvious that there was nothing they could do to really sell the danger of that in a good way when they had to use a trained bear which severely restricted what they could translate to the screen, but they had no other option.

All that said, Sakharov does not seem to be on the show next year. There was an English-language interview or profile in a Russian-focused paper where it listed his upcoming projects, which includes episodes of Black Sails and Netflix's Marco Polo -- no GoT mentioned.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Most of your complaints, re: Sakharov, were about things that weren't on the table to be presented, though, so I remain confused about why this is being held against him. You don't need you to pretend that you do or don't know something, you just need to accept that the director directs scenes that are in the script, nothing more or less. If it's not in the script, he can't do anything about it. He cannot create scenes out of thin air if they are not scripted. If no scene is written showing Ramsay getting from point A to point B, he can't do anything about it. Or if there were a scene planned that did that, but then at the last minute they decide they can't afford it, there's nothing he can do about it either.

Basically, it sounds like there were some serious production time/budget issues that seriously impacted the Dreadfort stuff, so using that particular situation as a reason to rate him poorly seems quite unfair. Just as someone holding the bear pit against Maclaren, say, would be unfair -- it was obvious that there was nothing they could do to really sell the danger of that in a good way when they had to use a trained bear which severely restricted what they could translate to the screen, but they had no other option.

I was just wondering if you or others think, or have knowledge of, any missing scene from The Dreadfort attack by Yara? The complaints about that episode bring it to mind. This aired after the 'rape/consent' controversy for Jaime and Cersei in the sept, and there was speculation that perhaps the reason a shirtless and blood streaked Ramsey showed up in the kennels was because he had murdered his Myranda during or after having sex with her? I just wondered if there was any word about a missing scene from that segment of the show?

Anyway, sorry if this isn't the best place for such a question, but I figured if it was being discussed..........this might be a good time to find out what is known about this idea of perhaps the show runners deciding to drop a certain bit of sexual violence after that other raging controversy. Besides, it did seem as if this episode came up short, time wise, and that was also happening a few times this past season. Just wondering if there is more information about this.

I perfectly understand if you do have knowledge and can't say, or even if you don't have knowledge and don't want to talk about it. Either or, just wondering.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I'm wondering if they'll keep Davos's story-line the same. Even if there's a Manderly/Umber merge ( :ack:), Davos hunting down Rickon at the behest of a Northern Lord seemed like it should be an important plot-point.

ITA on Davos's involvement with a Northern Lord seeming important. Also, I wanted to thank you for the terrific compilation of information on your opening post. I do wonder if Davos having met Jon Snow in the finale and any interactions proceeding from there...will help with a tie in to him and Manderly and The Starks and The North and Stannis. Perhaps him being with Stannis to meet Jon Snow does tell us that Davos will have importance to the North, somehow?

[Magnar of Skagos]

I'm interested to see what Varamyr's plotline is going to be. Maybe some sort of antagonist for Bran?

[Mr Fixit]

All that said, Sakharov does not seem to be on the show next year. There was an English-language interview or profile in a Russian-focused paper where it listed his upcoming projects, which includes episodes of Black Sails and Netflix's Marco Polo -- no GoT mentioned.

Why hast thou forsaken me, Alik?

[ground_control]

Most of your complaints, re: Sakharov, were about things that weren't on the table to be presented, though, so I remain confused about why this is being held against him. You don't need you to pretend that you do or don't know something, you just need to accept that the director directs scenes that are in the script, nothing more or less. If it's not in the script, he can't do anything about it. He cannot create scenes out of thin air if they are not scripted. If no scene is written showing Ramsay getting from point A to point B, he can't do anything about it. Or if there were a scene planned that did that, but then at the last minute they decide they can't afford it, there's nothing he can do about it either.

Basically, it sounds like there were some serious production time/budget issues that seriously impacted the Dreadfort stuff, leaving some very bare bones scenes with minimal budget to work with. He made the best he could of the situation, and his actual direction of the set piece, for example, is excellent I think.

Anyways, using that particular situation as a reason to rate him poorly seems quite unfair. Just as someone holding the bear pit against Maclaren, say, would be unfair -- it was obvious that there was nothing they could do to really sell the danger of that in a good way when they had to use a trained bear which severely restricted what they could translate to the screen, but they had no other option.

All that said, Sakharov does not seem to be on the show next year. There was an English-language interview or profile in a Russian-focused paper where it listed his upcoming projects, which includes episodes of Black Sails and Netflix's Marco Polo -- no GoT mentioned.

Without actually seeing the script that was given to the director, we won't know if there was more and it got cut before (or after) filming or was never there. All I can say is that when I watched the show, it didn't just look like things hadn't been written in the first place, it looked like things had actually been cut out. It felt more rushed than hectic.

Hopefully his employers know the truth, and if they know that it looks like it was cut down because they were the ones that cut it down, hopefully they don't hold it against him. As I said, I won't stop watching the show if he continues to direct. And I apologize if it sounds like I am hating on him, that wasn't my intention. Some people were discussing which directors they wanted to see come back next season, so I looked at the names mentioned, and looked at the imdb to see which (if any) had directed scenes I really hated (there was *some* good stuff this season, but nothing I'd say I loved) and found that McLaren and Sakharov had directed what I consider to be the worst overall (i.e., not just writing) scenes, so that's why I said what I did.

To be fair, I think the writing, not direction, was the biggest culprit this season -- I'd gladly take episodes directed by McLaren and Sakharov in return for nothing to be written by Cogman (who was the writer for most of the scenes I named).

I guess it says something about my overall satisfaction with the season if there's nothing that makes me say, "that was good, do it again" instead of "anything but more of the same."

[Good Guy Garlan]

Fantastic work, OP

Can we also mention D&D seemingly (and indirectly) confirming Jaime will be in Dorne?

(...)and Jaime’s almost done building his jetpack.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Fantastic work, OP

Can we also mention D&D seemingly (and indirectly) confirming Jaime will be in Dorne?

I took Jaime and the jet pack comment by D&D to almost be confirmation of him in Dorne as well. I'm wondering if the jet pack reference means he'll be in and out of Dorne pretty quick? I suppose it could be a reference to Jaime being all over the Kingdoms, quicker than LF was in S2?

[HairGrowsBack]

I took Jaime and the jet pack comment by D&D to almost be confirmation of him in Dorne as well. I'm wondering if the jet pack reference means he'll be in and out of Dorne pretty quick? I suppose it could be a reference to Jaime being all over the Kingdoms, quicker than LF was in S2?

Damn I hope so. That would be a good indication of him somehow catching up with his Riverlands arc, which would be also a likely confirmation of LS being in.

[The King Of Cooked Steak]

Sending Jaime to Dorne is a huge deviation from the books. What will they have him doing there? I'm thinking it's probably some rumor amongst the characters in the story.

I'm fine with Bronn going there because for the rest of the series, he is absent, and seeing Dorne for the first time with a familiar face like Bronn will help Unsullied viewers. I'm thinking he might replace Arys Oakheart, but we never know. I really hope they don't cut Arianne and replace her with Tyene. I like the Sand Snakes, but you can't dismiss a main character like Arianne. That's like leaving out Sam or Melisandre.

As for Gendry, I expect him to go to Essos, and be part of the crew of the Shy Maid, and meet up with Tyrion. It's a possibility.

[jentario]

There are a few options for Gendry:

A. He'll end up meeting Brienne before the Brotherhood saves the day. He won't be affiliated with them, though, as they kind of burned that bridge when they sold him to Melisandre in the show.

B. He'll end up in the Vale, potentially replacing (and this is my new crackpot) Harry the Heir. Think about it. He already knows he's Robert's bastard. If Littlefinger gets ahold of him... He could be rather useful. There is the whole Bastard thing, still, but I think they could get around that.

C. He'll end up in King's Landing or around it. Last we knew, Davos sent him there saying the gold cloaks wouldn't recognize him.

D. Something entirely unpredictable (by me at least), anyone want to give it a try?