The Fate of Gerion Lannister: Corsair King

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Is Tywin the kind of man to tell others to kill his own brother? Let's see.

He could have ordered someone to kill baby Tyrion but he didn't, despite him being some sort of abomination that wasn't meant to live much long. Yet, it was his own son, and he couldn't prove he wasn't his. So, for Tywin, family does matter. Gerion is his brother, his blood and son of the same mother and father: there is no doubt that they're related and, annoying as he could have been, he had no real reasons to being killed.

But, honour is also important for Tywin. Gerion wasn't very likely to obey him in the same way Tygett and Kevan did, and he also fathered a bastard, and probably, liked whores or women in general. He was nice to Tyrion, meaning he didn't care the kid was a dwarf and was able to see him for what he was. Does that mean that Gerion could have been able to bring "dishonour" to house Lannister? Maybe. But so far, the most "daring" thing he did was having a bastard, which isn't that odd in Westeros, specially for hot-blooded men. He didn't actually married a "whore" like Tyrion and Tywin didn't actually punish Tyrion, but Tysha. If Gerion did anything to offend the Lannisters, like, for example, marrying some lowborn girl, Tywin would rather kill such girl but wouldn't touch Gerion. Of course, Gerion is older than Tyrion and he wouldn't simply forgive and forget what Tywin did because he's his brother, not his father.

Nevertheless, we know Tywin likes to make excuses for his decisions. He says he forgot to tell the Mountain not to touch Elia. We know is almost impossible for a man like him to simply "forget" things like keeping a very valuable hostage alive. And he probably thinks he did Tyrion a favour by proving him that women would only love him for his money. I think it's more probable that Tywin was expecting Gerion to die during his voyage to Valyria, but he wasn't actually encouraging men to kill him: that would be too dangerous if Gerion finds out and manages to return.

[Pecan]

At a high level, my gut instinct is that the Gerion name dropping is more than world building. He could be the corsair king. It's a reasonable theory. We just really need the next book to come out.

[Aemond's Eye]

About Gerion Lannister

Tyrion

He [Tommen II] had never returned; nor had Uncle Gery, the youngest and most reckless of his father's brothers, who had gone seeking after the lost sword some eight years past.

-ASoS Tyrion IV

"He [Tywin] was not the same man after she [Joanna] died Imp," Uncle Gery had told him once. The best part of him died with her." Gerion had been the youngest of Lord Tytos Lannister's four sons and the uncle Tyrion liked best.

But he was gone now, lost beyond the seas.

-ASoS Tyrion V

His Uncle Gerion thought that was the funniest thing he had ever heard [Tyrion asking for a dragon little like he was].

-ADwD Tyrion II

His Uncle Gerion set him on tables at feasts to recite them.

-ADwD Tyrion III

Back then his uncle Gerion had been on hand to praise his efforts, in place of surly sailors.

-ADwD Tyrion III

Almost a decade had passed since the Laughing Lion headed out of Lannisport, and Gerion had never returned.

-ADwD Tyrion VIII

Jaime

Gerion had given him [Robert] a gilded dagger with an ivory grip and a sapphire pommel for a wedding gift

-ASoS Jaime IX

Gerion made japes. Better to mock the game than to play and lose.

-AFfC Jaime V

"Joy is my late uncle Gerion's natural daughter." . . . her father had been Jaime's favorite uncle.

-AFfC Jaime VII

Like the Starks, the Lannisters have a lost uncle, Gerion "Gery" Lannister, who sailed to Valyria on the Laughing Lion. He was Jaime and Tyrion's favorite uncle, and from the sound of it had been more of a father to Tyrion than Tywin had. He has been mentioned many times, and no body was produced, so I doubt we aren't going to see him.

"The Laughing Lion" was Tytos's nickname, so the ship Gerion sailed on was named for his father. Tytos was no warrior and never knighted, and had a good sense of humor. Gerion unlike his brothers, many other adult Lannisters and highborn non-lordly Southerners, doesn't have a "ser" before his name in the appendix, meaning he was never knighted. He was also kind as exemplified by his treatment of Tyrion, and good at making people laugh. Gerion may have been very much his father's son. I think he was the brother Tywin hated most given that he was a living reminder of their father, Tytos, and Tywin could likely have blamed Gerion for their mother's death a month after his birth like Tywin blamed Tyrion for Joanna's death.

I also think he was the husband who supposedly died at sea for the Sailor's Wife at the Happy Port with Lanna being his daughter. I think Tywin may have found out, and we saw what he did when Tyrion married Tysha. Tywin would no doubt have been pissed, and found another reason to be angry at Gerion.

His Fate

Only three days past I showed these same Unsullied to a corsair king who hopes to buy them all

A new corsair king had risen in the Basilisk Isles and raided Tall Trees Town

This corsair king is mentioned twice throughout the series, and I think we will eventually bump into him.

Gerion had never returned. The men Lord Tywin sent to seek after him had traced his course as far as Volantis, where half his crew had deserted him and he had bought slaves to replace them.

I think that could tie to Gerion being the corsair king with both men looking to buy slaves for their crews.

Of course, if Gerion is the corsair king, then he would have to have a reason for not coming home. In Westeros, he was a member of the wealthiest family and brother to the most powerful lord with a life of luxury at CR, an inheritance from his father and access to the gold of CR. In Essos, he was a nobody without a penny to his name.

I guess that Tywin paid the crew of the Laughing Lion to throw Gerion overboard so he would cause no more disgrace for House Lannister, knowing that it would not surprise anyone if he disappeared as all the voyagers to the Smoking Sea did. Tywin would say it wasn't kinslaying since he didn't do the deed himself. He never does, he always has his underlings do it. They could have thrown him overboard on the trek from Volantis to Valyria as few ships ever come that close to the ruins of the Freehold and the Smoking Sea, with a good certainty that he would drown. Of course, Gerion got lucky like Davos on the spears of the Merling King in ASoS, when a ship was blown off course, and found him.

What does this have to do with the plot?

A good question. I think Tyrion and Dany will bump into him on their way back to Westeros. They could catch him preying on a few ships that were scattered from the main fleet as pirates are wont to do. Tyrion would come upon the corsairs, possibly on Viserion, only to recognize him, and have a warm family reunion.

I think Tyrion would have Gerion be made Dany's master-of-ships. Gerion would be a different, harder man having risen to corsair king from the bottom up without a penny or a ship to speak of. He would have at most eight years of naval combat experience, and one doesn't become a corsair king being slow of sword, a coward or a bad captain. He would have shown daring and abilities as a commander in marine assaults in his raid on Tall Trees Town. He would not doubt get along fine with the men of the Iron Fleet, given along with also being a pirate he is charismatic with an ability to make men smile. He would also add his own pirate fleet.

She dismounted beside a gaming pit where a basilisk was tearing a big red dog to pieces amidst a shouting ring of sailors.

and wait for the bitch queen in King's Landing to let Lord Paxter off his leash

The fight is between a basilisk and a red dog in a group of sailors. I think Gerion, who was based from the Basilisk Isles, will be engaging the Redwyne fleet, with Redwyne being compared to a dog, in a naval battle or battle between sailors in the second Dance, and target Paxter Redwyne's flagship, the Arbor Queen, killing Redwyne in single combat, possibly armed with Brightroar (not that I think he found it, but got it from Tyrion who did visit Valyria on dragonback and found it). I also think he would lead the assault on Planky Town and up the Greenblood when Dany and Tyrion invade Dorne (taking a page from Daeron I and Oakenfist), as again, he has experience and competence with marine assaults as demonstrated at Tall Trees Town .

I think I'm one of a half dozen people who would hate it if Tyrion is a dragon rider....

Other than that, I don't dislike the idea. If Gerion is the Corsair King then he might be someone that could deal with Euron Crow's Eye...

[Ygrain]

I like the theory. If Gerion is not dead, then he indeed might turn up in some important role. Personally, I am most intrigued by the possibility that Gerion might have reached Valyria and found there something that would counter whatever sorcery Euron picked there.

[Mr Hodor]

Not all disappeared people will come back.

I believe with just 2 books left not many new characters will be introduced, or not many characters will come out of dead.

Also, this theory says 'one unknown' = 'second unknown' without any support

Is it plausible, no. Is it possible, yes.

[Northernmonkey]

I really like the idea that Gerion is the corsair king, but I don't see Tyrion and Dany running into him or him playing a major part in the story. People don't tend to get what they want in ASOIAF and Tyrion reuniting with his favourite uncle and them joining up to fight for Dany seems unlikely to me.

I think it's possible that we'll encounter the corsair king in another POV's chapter where he might have a small role to play, and where he'll give enough clues for the reader to work out his real identity, but I don't see GRRM introducing Gerion as a major player at this late stage in the books.

[coil]

Except having him killed at CR brings the obvious risk of getting caught. On a trip a Valyria far from home is much cleaner, especially when the opportunity presented itself.

The thing is that I cannot think of good reasons for Tywin to want his brother dead.

-Tywin may not have been sure whether or not Tyrion was his son or Gerion's.

Aerys, Gerion... Joanna: the bycicle of Casterly Rock?

Don't buy it, the text never relates Joanna and Gerion, unlike in Aerys' case and eventual suspicions of Tywin's.

-I wasn't using Tytos as evidence in the OP. I never said it happened, but I put it in the realm of possibility.

I'll quote your OP and your post previous to this one to explain why I believe this possibility doesn't stand

1 "Gerion may have been very much his father's son. I think he was the brother Tywin hated most given that he was a living reminder of their father, Tytos, and Tywin could likely have blamed Gerion for their mother's death a month after his birth like Tywin blamed Tyrion for Joanna's death."

Tywin did nothing against his father, why should he against his little brother.

The thing about Tywin's mother does not stand: death to consumptions are always specified in the books, and neither is suggested between Tywin and his relationship with his mother, nor about him resenting Gerion for that. It's pure speculation.

2 I also think he was the husband who supposedly died at sea for the Sailor's Wife at the Happy Port with Lanna being his daughter. I think Tywin may have found out, and we saw what he did when Tyrion married Tysha. Tywin would no doubt have been pissed, and found another reason to be angry at Gerion. There are precedents with Joy Hill, but nothing it's said about her and an eventual Tywin reaction about that birth.

The Sailor's Wife and Lanna are alive and well, nothing points toward them being somehow contacted by the House of Lannisters.

We're talking about Tywin Lannister, he's not known for half measures.

3 We never hear of Tywin's personal feelings towards Gerion, but given his attitude towards his father, and Gerion being very much his father's son along with Tywin being very touchy about the honor of his House, and from Tywin's treatment of Tyrion whose mother died from the complications of his birth, we can guess his feelings towards Gerion. Again, no real evidence of Tywin wanting Gerion dead.

Only suppositions, but we never see Tywin going explicitly hateful (or at least translating his hate into concrete actions) against members of his own family but Tyrion, whose case is completely different and more complex than others.

The same answer as above regarding Tytos. Absence of proof is not proof of absence, and heart attacks have been attributed to men who died unnatural deaths: the insurance guy who was Arya's target and Yurkhaz zo Yunzak (referred to as "the old lion" who died beneath the feet of his companions. In those cases the text is way more explicit. Tytos' death instead looks way more plain and simple.

What has Gerion done to Tywin? Tywin hated Tyrion, when Tyrion did nothing wrong. Tywin is also very prickly and hates laughter while Gerion had a gift for making people laugh. Tyrion/Tywin's dynamics is way deeper and complex, I wouldn't put both the relationships on the same level. Tyrion is often sarcastic and jokes when Tywin's around: his father reaction is generally dismissing his humour but nothing more. Having a gift for making people laugh doesn't make you necessarly eligible for death. Not when Gerion's a nobody, but actually a close relative of Tywin's.

-----------------

Except Tyrion still isn't a sailor, and he hasn't died at sea. Gerion fits the descriptions well.

It looks like you don't believe that Tysha's the Sailor's Wife, so on this point the discussion can't really continue.

Already explained myself on this in my previous post.

Except if you bothered to check AFfC, the corsair king in the Basilisk Isles is mentioned before Aurane absconds with the fleet, and he is never mentioned as attacking Tall Trees Town, even in the TWoW spoiler chapters. It also can't be the corsair king at the Bridge of Dreams as the legend is older than that.

That is actually true, my apologies. You're right on that, it looks like there's something shadier here.

And it could even be Gerion, if he's alive... still these are my reasons why I don't think he should have been a target of assasination from Tywin.

[Black Crow]

I've no particular view on whether Gerion Lannister is the Corsair King. Its possible, but aint necessarily so. What I would like insert into the debate is thiis passage from one of the Tyrion chapters in AGoT. He has accompanied Jon Snow to the Wall and at the end of his visit goes to the top of the Wall to look at the other side. There he finds and takes his leave of Jon:

"My uncle is out there," Jon Snow said softly, leaning on his spear as he stared off into the darkness...

Far off to the north, a wolf began to howl. Another voice picked up the call, and then another. Ghost cocked his head and listened. "If he doesn't come back," Jon Snow promised, "Ghost and I will go find him." He put his hand on the direwolf's head.

"I believe you," Tyrion said...

On one level that might be read simply as a foreshadowing of what's to come in Winds of Winter, but might it also be the case that Tyrion too must go seek his uncle - in the smoking sea of Valyria?

[Greymoon]

How does a guy like Gerion Lannister become a corsair king? How does one change from a good natured, high born, stranded and exiled adventurer to a fearsome pirate; "King" of corsairs?

When I read corsair I think = "barbary pirate"; "Ottoman corsair", slavery, slave trade, Ottoman empire.... even "Barbary Coast" a term used between 16-19th century, by europeans for north Africa.... all this is somewhat reminiscent of "Slaver's bay" with Essos and Essossis being to Westeros what the "Orient" and "barbarians" was to Middle Age europeans...

I find it more likely that the corsair King is Essossi himself; and Gerion a slave if he still lives. GRRM also has the tendency to tell us stories within stories and to build parallels between characters...we might well have a case of Gerion's story being told through Tyrion and Jorah's experience from the moment they were taken prisoner....

I suppose, Aurane Waters could also be a sort of parallel to Gerion; only if we accept the possibility that he somehow ended up becoming a pirate....does Jack Ward help?... He served aboard a ship called Lyon's Whelp ;)

John Ward or Birdy (c. 1553 – 1622), also known as Jack Ward and under his Muslim name Yusuf Reis, was a notorious English pirate around the turn of the 17th century who later became a Barbary Corsair operating out of Tunis during the early 17th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ward

Or he became a Tybalt Rosembraise...

Born on the island of La Désirade in 1798, of a French hebertist father fleeing the repression of the Committee of public Salute, and of a slave mother descended from the Carib Indians. Tybalt Rosembraise was an adventurer who crossed his era as dilettantist : a revolutionary in Argentina, a peasant on the Pampa, a dandy in Paris, a pirate on the Mediterranean Sea, a fisherman in Siberia, a smuggler in China, he led a life free of thought and action to disappear finally in France in 1839. A witness of his time, catalyst of uprisings, he multiplied his encounters and « identities » to the point that today it is difficult to say who this man really was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tybalt_Rosembraise

[Fire Eater]

You just pulled Aerys out of nowhere. I never even mentioned him, and don't think he had an affair with Joanna. Joanna and Gerion is just my personal crackpot theory like certain theories regarding the identity of Septa Lemore.

Did nothing against his father? It is said that Tywin hit him once.

We don't know for sure, it is possible, Tywin could have knocked off his old man, and Tyrion, who committed patricide, is said to be his father's son. Tywin's mother's death was connected to Gerion's birth, and Tywin was a child then, if as an adult he blamed Tyrion for Joanna's death, imagine how he would have he would felt towards Gerion as a child.

Lanna is feminized version of Lann (think Robert's daughter Barra), and she has golden hair. Killing off Joy Hill would bring him nothing, and again, her disappearance would be noted. CR is very secure, and no one would think she disappeared without Tywin being involved.

Gerion likely joked around Tywin as well given what we heard about him. I never said it was merely Gerion's sense of humor. It was his actions, and bringing shame on his House as Tywin would see it. He probably pushed his buttons.

Well, I think if Gerion is the corsair king, he would need a legitimate reason not to return home.

How does a guy like Gerion Lannister become a corsair king? How does one change from a good natured, high born, stranded and exiled adventurer to a fearsome pirate; "King" of corsairs?

When I read corsair I think = "barbary pirate"; "Ottoman corsair", slavery, slave trade, Ottoman empire.... even "Barbary Coast" a term used between 16-19th century, by europeans for north Africa.... all this is somewhat reminiscent of "Slaver's bay" with Essos and Essossis being to Westeros what the "Orient" and "barbarians" was to Middle Age europeans...

I find it more likely that the corsair King is Essossi himself; and Gerion a slave if he still lives. GRRM also has the tendency to tell us stories within stories and to build parallels between characters...we might well have a case of Gerion's story being told through Tyrion and Jorah's experience from the moment they were taken prisoner....

I suppose, Aurane Waters could also be a sort of parallel to Gerion; only if we accept the possibility that he somehow ended up becoming a pirate....does Jack Ward help?... He served aboard a ship called Lyon's Whelp ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ward

Or he became a Tybalt Rosembraise...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tybalt_Rosembraise

I think Gerion would become a corsair out of survival, possibly if the ship that picked him up was a pirate ship.

I like the references you came up with. I'll look into them.

[coil]

It looks like we are speaking different languages.

I'm not pulling Aerys out of nowhere. In the series, Aerys is mentioned to have taken some liberties during Joanna's bedding ceremony.

That's a hint that something may or not be going on behind the scenes: if there's someone who the series points towards an eventual illicit affair, it's Aerys rather than Gerion.

A Gerion who is never put into correlation with Joanna by a single sentence in the whole series.

It's not that I cannot see your points, but rather think that they do not stand becaused too much relying on suppositions rather than the actual text.

No character speaks about Gerion bringing actual shame to the House Lannister with his behaviour, no character or hint speaks about Tywin wanting Gerion dead.

[TheBlackFlame]

I would like to apologize to the OP for blasting him/her. I don't think that this theory is likely but its more likely than some concerning Gerion Lannister. And when I questioned it the OP at least tried to debate me not just tell me I'm wrong without explaining why or labeling me a troll. Once again sorry to the OP in retrospect I may have been a little too aggressive and critical.

[Fire Eater]

It looks like we are speaking different languages.

I'm not pulling Aerys out of nowhere. In the series, Aerys is mentioned to have taken some liberties during Joanna's bedding ceremony.

That's a hint that something may or not be going on behind the scenes: if there's someone who the series points towards an eventual illicit affair, it's Aerys rather than Gerion.

A Gerion who is never put into correlation with Joanna by a single sentence in the whole series.

I don't think Aerys had an affair with Joanna. He may have taken liberties, but I don't see it going any farther than that given Aerys didn't stay an expended time at CR. If Joanna did sleep with Aerys, than I don't see why she would stop at him. She could have gotten lonely at CR while Tywin was away.

Greymoon, you can see the historical parallels between the corsairs of ASOIAF and the real world. Corsairs worked along the North African coast while in ASOIAF the work along the northern coast of Sothoryos (a parallel to Africa). Corsairs were slave traders/raiders as well as pirates, and the towns of the Basilisk Isles have been known to be home to slavers and raid the coasts of Sothoryos for slaves. The corsair king might have taken a few Summer Islanders as slaves.

There is the Barbarossa brothers who worked for the Ottomans with Hayreddin as the admiral-in-chief of the Ottoman sultan's fleet, who all made conquests in the nae of the Ottoman sultan. Jack Ward, whom you mentioned, worked in the employ of Queen Elizabeth just as Gerion would be working for Dany. I think he also may have some influences from Henry Morgan, who used an island, Isla Vaca, as a base of operations, and where he planned and staged many of his largest raids. They all fought the Spaniards, one of the influences for Dorne.

[Greymoon]

I don't think Aerys had an affair with Joanna. He may have taken liberties, but I don't see it going any farther than that given Aerys didn't stay an expended time at CR. If Joanna did sleep with Aerys, than I don't see why she would stop at him. She could have gotten lonely at CR while Tywin was away.

Greymoon, yYou can see the historical parallels between the corsairs of ASOIAF and the real world. Corsairs worked along the North African coast while in ASOIAF the work along the northern coast of Sothyros (a parallel to Africa). Corsairs were slave traders/raiders as well as pirates, and the towns of the Basilisk Isles have been known to be home to slavers and raid the coasts of Sothyros for slaves. The corsair king might have taken a few Summer Islanders as slaves.

There is the Barbarossa brothers who worked for the Ottomans with Hayreddin as the admiral-in-chief of the Ottoman sultan's fleet, who all made conquests in the nae of the Ottoman sultan. Jack Ward, whom you mentioned, worked in the employ of Queen Elizabeth just as Gerion would be working for Dany. I think he also may have some influences from Henry Morgan, who used an island, Isla Vaca, as a base of operations, and where he planned and staged many of his largest raids. They all fought the Spaniards, one of the influences for Dorne.

Yeah...but, unless he pulled a Jack Ward; I don't see it....the probability that the Corsair King is a westerosi exile seems slim, is all...and if it's him, I don't see a pleasant ending to that story lol. It does kind of basically mean, that Gerion became a pirate, raider, brigand, and slaver.... ;) and how did he manage that, form a high born lad to a bad ass pirate? He'd have to be awfully resourceful for that -- but then I guess Lannisters have proven themselves resourceful in the past -- Tyrion in particular...

[Fire Eater]

Yeah...but, unless he pulled a Jack Ward; I don't see it....the probability that the Corsair King is a westerosi exile seems slim, is all...and if it's him, I don't see a pleasant ending to that story lol. It does kind of basically mean, that Gerion became a pirate, raider, brigand, and slaver.... ;) and how did he manage that, form a high born lad to a bad ass pirate? He'd have to be awfully resourceful for that -- but then I guess Lannisters have proven themselves resourceful in the past -- Tyrion in particular...

I wouldn't say it is slim given that Gerion has sailed plenty of times before. Exile in Essos may have toughened him up like it did Connington. He is charismatic and likely learned from watching Tywin. He could have worked his way up.

[frensj]

I wouldn't say it is slim given that Gerion has sailed plenty of times before. Exile in Essos may have toughened him up like it did Connington. He is charismatic and likely learned from watching Tywin. He could have worked his way up.

I'm sorry, but I can't see that happen. How old was he when he went there? 35 maybe? I don't see someone changing his complete character after having lived that long already. He's not a developping child but a fully grown adult. If he's a softy, he'll stay one. I like your theory but I can not see him work himself up from the gutter as a badass pirate suddenly. Maybe if he could somehow retain part of his fleet (or was it just one ship?). Perhaps then, if he has a good right hand for example.

Or perhaps he does it the Tyrion way? How much of the gold in CR has he promised away already? :)

[Fire Eater]

I'm sorry, but I can't see that happen. How old was he when he went there? 35 maybe? I don't see someone changing his complete character after having lived that long already. He's not a developping child but a fully grown adult. If he's a softy, he'll stay one. I like your theory but I can not see him work himself up from the gutter as a badass pirate suddenly. Maybe if he could somehow retain part of his fleet (or was it just one ship?). Perhaps then, if he has a good right hand for example.

Or perhaps he does it the Tyrion way? How much of the gold in CR has he promised away already? :)

You are forgetting one universal truth: people can change.

[Mithras]

You are forgetting one universal truth: people can change.

Agreed and even more so in GRRM's universe.

[frensj]

You are forgetting one universal truth: people can change.

Universal thruth in what? Fantasy? Mayhaps. In real life? I'm sorry but no, real life is not a Hollywood movie. A craven is a craven (look at Sam, even though he killed an Other in a blind raze, he's still a craven). That's a basic way of being.

So ok, for the sake of a story it might be possible, but I would find that VERY unrealistic.

Anyway when people say "people can change" they don't mean that a craven becomes a hero. They mean that very slowly people behave slightly different over time. Not that their basic characteristics change.

<joke>

When a man and a woman marry, the man hopes the woman does not change and the woman hopes the man does.

Needless to say it's the other way.

</joke>

[Fire Eater]

Universal thruth in what? Fantasy? Mayhaps. In real life? I'm sorry but no, real life is not a Hollywood movie. A craven is a craven (look at Sam, even though he killed an Other in a blind raze, he's still a craven). That's a basic way of being.

So ok, for the sake of a story it might be possible, but I would find that VERY unrealistic.

It is a universal truth in real life if you actually looked. St. Augustine of Hippo visited prostitutes and impregnated his boss's daughter before becoming a Manichean and later bishop. St. Moses the Black was a former highwayman and murderer who ended up sacrificing himself to protect his fellow hermits from bandits.

If you look in series, Jaime changed and so did Dany, Theon, Sansa and Jon. Characters are always changing. Gerion would have had to adapt in a tough environment. Gerion would have changed over eight years.