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Is Arya on her way to becoming a female Sandor?


Kaguya

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There's also Gregor. We know Sandor wants to kill him. We know he's not afraid to fight him. He fought him in defence of Loras and no doubt hoped he'd get the chance to finish it, but he has never gone and sought his revenge simply on the basis of what Gregor did to him.

If it were Arya, she'd have slit Gregor's throat while he slept.

Thats not accurate, the books specifically states that Sandor never attacked Gregor, he only defended himself.

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I don't think it was just because it was orders. We see in the books that when the Hound doesn't want to do something he doesn't do it or when he objects to an order that the Lannisters give he speaks against it. The Hound wanted to kill Mycah. He also admitted that he killed women and children before. Mycah is one of many and it wasn't OOC.





"And the other guard?" "He's slow and stupid. I can kill him too." "Are you some butcher oof the battlefield hacking down every man who stands in your way?" "No." "...give his gift only to those who have been marked and chosen." She understood. Kill him. Kill only him."



^Hacking up any foe in their way is Hound behavior I think yet Arya is learning to kill specific people. She's not someone who fits on a battlefield or fits as a bodyguard like Sandor so in that respect she's not. Her training is not making her more like Sandor either. She's training to rely on stealth even more so not brute strength like Sandor and is learning other ways to kill people like poison which is something the Hound likely wouldn't do. Plus, seduction. I think when she thinks about the fact that the lady wouldn't have cheated the Hound she knows she can't be like him and has to learn some other way hence the FM.



In the basic sense yes she is also killing on orders but that's not a specific parallel to Sandor. So do knights, sellswords, and pirate/thug crews, etc. Pod for example killed young as a squire.



A difference is that Arya kills outside of orders and for her own reasons. She will continue to do so even if she leaves-smells of death, sewing through winter.



& I don't think she hated him because he's a killer. She hated him because he killed her friend. She liked Jaqen who is a killer. The KM is a killer. She hangs out with wharfside scum and rogues in Braavos. She liked a pirate and the stories he told of his heyday. He most likely was a killer. She knows about the prostitute S'vrone killing her clients. Instead of being upset she actually imitated her behavior. I don't think she hates killers in general. It's all very specific. The Hound also kidnapped her. It's personal.


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If I recall correctly, there is a statement made by Thoros where he says something to the effect that Sandor would gladly kill everyone of the BWB, but he wouldn't do it while they slept. There has always been something a little odd about Sandor's approach to violence. He kind of seems to be concerned with having "fair fights", for lack of a better term.


I don't think Arya gives a shit about fair fights. For her, I think the question is whether there is sufficient reason for somebody to be killed.


I think there some similarities between the two. But are they the same? No.

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On the contrary her morality is causing problems on her path and likely can't be compromised. She needs to believe what she is doing is right and just. Sandor didn't and never cared

You need to stop dumbing down her character. I'm sorry you don't like the path she is headed down but that doesn't change the facts. She literally killed a man for his boots and tossed him in the canals. After what she's been through I wouldn't blame her for becoming the next Ramsay. Not every Stark has to be "good" She might as well be Amory Lorch at this point. Thats what makes her character so interesting, she is a way more complicated that your average do gooder.

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You need to stop dumbing down her character. I'm sorry you don't like the path she is headed down but that doesn't change the facts. She literally killed a man for his boots and tossed him in the canals. After what she's been through I wouldn't blame her for becoming the next Ramsay. Not every Stark has to be "good" She might as well be Amory Lorch at this point. Thats what makes her character so interesting, she is a way more complicated that your average do gooder.

Dareon? It was for being a deserter to the night's watch not for his boots.

I agree with your premise though, he path is partly in darkness, its not clear cut, but she's keeping a morality of her own.

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Dareon? It was for being a deserter to the night's watch not for his boots.

I agree with your premise though, he path is partly in darkness, its not clear cut, but she's keeping a morality of her own.

When it comes down to it deserter or just obnoxious asshole the reason she did it was because she wanted to. We're talking about someone who is suffering from one of the most severe cases of PTSD ever and as a result has become fixated with violence and murder. Someone who has already killed for no reason other than revenge who has a hit list with names still to check off and is in fact training to become a master assassin why is the idea that that person might enjoy killing so tough for some people.

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You need to stop dumbing down her character. I'm sorry you don't like the path she is headed down but that doesn't change the facts. She literally killed a man for his boots and tossed him in the canals. After what she's been through I wouldn't blame her for becoming the next Ramsay. Not every Stark has to be "good" She might as well be Amory Lorch at this point. Thats what makes her character so interesting, she is a way more complicated that your average do gooder.

You are exaggerating beyond belief to fill this idea in your head that she is little Darth Vader. she isn't even close. In a world of casual violence and murder you have to up your threshold of goodness. We have a story where a granny poisons her granddaughters boy husband and she is not condemned for it by the text. Arya not becoming a pro killer doesn't make her less complex. She may teeter on the brink like all the Stark kids will but I don't see Arya as the one that will drop over the edge. The complexity is in the challenge and not the outcome.

If you think Arya is staying at the house of the black and white despite her personal vendettas, her connection to her wolf and her clinging to Needle you are not reading the text right.

Oh and arya is the most reasoned form of justice in this text. The mountain vs Oberyn, divine intervention you think? Partisan juries for the rich. It's not perfect but confession or witness to a crime leading to execution is far more preferable.

She's worse than the Hound already.

Sandor kills under orders, Arya kills because she feels like it.

"Don't blame me I'm just following orders" is the weakest excuse ever. Deferring blame and not owning to it. The hound has no moral compass at all. He would kill men, women and children without thinking at someone else's command. Think through the horror of what you are saying

When it comes down to it deserter or just obnoxious asshole the reason she did it was because she wanted to. We're talking about someone who is suffering from one of the most severe cases of PTSD ever and as a result has become fixated with violence and murder. Someone who has already killed for no reason other than revenge who has a hit list with names still to check off and is in fact training to become a master assassin why is the idea that that person might enjoy killing so tough for some people.

She did it because she considered it her duty as a Stark to fulfil the law against oathbreakers. Like her father did before her. She has killed because these people were generally abusive. Rapists. Torturers and Murders and no other force is going to convict them so they'll carry on and keep doing what they do.

How so you feel about Brienne killing those Stark men?

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You are exaggerating beyond belief to fill this idea in your head that she is little Darth Vader. she isn't even close. In a world of casual violence and murder you have to up your threshold of goodness. We have a story where a granny poisons her granddaughters boy husband and she is not condemned for it by the text. Arya not becoming a pro killer doesn't make her less complex. She may teeter on the brink like all the Stark kids will but I don't see Arya as the one that will drop over the edge. The complexity is in the challenge and not the outcome.

If you think Arya is staying at the house of the black and white despite her personal vendettas, her connection to her wolf and her clinging to Needle you are not reading the text right.

I was trying to be on best behavior but since you apparently want to make it personal here goes. Show me this supposed "level of goodness" you're talking about because aside from the guard at Harrenhall I have yet to read a single sentence where she has moral qualms or feels even a twinge remorse about anything she has done. And I challenge you to show us all where she has page and chapter. Spoiler alert you won't because its never happened. So even if you're right apparently cold blooded murder is a-okay at her "level of goodness" as you so naively put it. Also do not presume to tell someone else how to read the text especially since you still seem to think that you're reading Harry Potter. Why don't you ask Ned Stark what he thinks about the notion that in this series the bad guys wear black hats and the good guys always win or maybe you could ask his son Robb and all his wedding guests. Because I'm not entirely sure that they would agree with you. Grow up already if you think this is a standard fantasy series beholden to traditional fantasy tropes I'm not the one who needs to re-read this series. Arya has literally been through more than any other character she was at ground zero of the war of the five kings she either saw or was a victim of some of the most horrible atrocity committed by both sides. That has left a mark on her nothing is going to erase ever.

She did it because she considered it her duty as a Stark to fulfil the law against oathbreakers. Like her father did before her. She has killed because these people were generally abusive. Rapists. Torturers and Murders and no other force is going to convict them so they'll carry on and keep doing what they do.

Yes and The Mountain was only doing as he was instructed, Ramsay just wants the approval or his father, Cersei is just trying to protect her children, Lord Tywin was just putting an end to the massively destructive war of the five kings, Ben Plumm was just doing what he thought was right by him and his men, the Crow's Eye is technically in absence of Theon Balon's rightful heir according to Westerosi law, The Harpy is just trying to preserve her traditional way of life, and Xaro Xhoan Daxos is just protecting his investment. Do you see how these like "he was a deserter" are just rationalizations? They did these things because they wanted to plain and simple everything else is just excuses.

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It wasn't an accident, it was survival.

Either way the result is the same it was her first kill. Each one after has mattered less and less. As I said to the other poster the only killing she carries out that she has a second thought about is the guard at Harrenhall.

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Even though she used to curse the hound for all his immoral actions it seems she is becoming exactly like him. Is this an interesting parralell.

She cares squat about his "immoral actions". She's basically amoral. He killed Mycah and he was Joff's Sworn Shield. He killed her friend and works for her enemy.

I see her motivations as very different from Sandor's and her arc will be very different, though maybe they'll be mirror images on some level.

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You are exaggerating beyond belief to fill this idea in your head that she is little Darth Vader. she isn't even close. In a world of casual violence and murder you have to up your threshold of goodness. We have a story where a granny poisons her granddaughters boy husband and she is not condemned for it by the text. Arya not becoming a pro killer doesn't make her less complex. She may teeter on the brink like all the Stark kids will but I don't see Arya as the one that will drop over the edge. The complexity is in the challenge and not the outcome.

If you think Arya is staying at the house of the black and white despite her personal vendettas, her connection to her wolf and her clinging to Needle you are not reading the text right.

Oh and arya is the most reasoned form of justice in this text. The mountain vs Oberyn, divine intervention you think? Partisan juries for the rich. It's not perfect but confession or witness to a crime leading to execution is far more preferable.

"Don't blame me I'm just following orders" is the weakest excuse ever. Deferring blame and not owning to it. The hound has no moral compass at all. He would kill men, women and children without thinking at someone else's command. Think through the horror of what you are saying

She did it because she considered it her duty as a Stark to fulfil the law against oathbreakers. Like her father did before her. She has killed because these people were generally abusive. Rapists. Torturers and Murders and no other force is going to convict them so they'll carry on and keep doing what they do.

How so you feel about Brienne killing those Stark men?

I almost forgot your last point. I don't care that Brienne killed them or why we aren't discussing Brienne. Even if we were I still wouldn't care but then again I'm not the one getting bent out of shape because "good guys" are killing people just as often as the "bad guys"

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"Don't blame me I'm just following orders" is the weakest excuse ever.

If Arya was also not willing to kill on orders I would think she might have done due diligence before assassinating the insurance agent. Not that we're given any reason to believe Arya decided he deserved to die and isn't just following orders. And that's not to mention she had no moral issues with killing his guards, it was the Kindly Man who put a stop to that plan.
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