Knight Owl Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 The other question is why do the other houses even believe that lie? It's not too far fetched of course and they probably have not the same understanding of demographics but some must have surely deduced that it's not possible to field that man in Dorne and many saw approximately how many they could spare during RR. (in comparison to others). I don't question that many Westerosi would buy it in, but that even arguably more clever people like Tyrion don't see through it strikes me as a bit odd. I would have to say that the military tactics practiced by Dorne help maintain confusion regarding the region's numerical military strength. The Dornish are noted for practicing guerrilla warfare and conducting quick raids. This dramatically differs from the other regional powers that throw large traditional armies at one another. Without the benefit of seeing large Dornish armies form up for formal battle, it is harder for other regions to ascertain the actual numerical strength of Dornish forces. While Tyrion is certainly very smart and clever, he only has books such as the writings of Daeron to estimate the military strength of Dorne. He has not extensively visited the country, and based on quotes from Prince Doran, the ruling powers of Dorne closely guard the secret that their forces are not as large as the other regions believe. It's possible that Tyrion has simply not expressed his doubts about the purported strength of Dornish forces, but it's also reasonable to presume he's simply misinformed at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Currently, it seems most likely that Dorne can, in fact, field 50.000 men. That is the number Quentyn tells Dany. As Dorne is seeking to ally themselves with her, it is very likely the Martells would be lying to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Currently, it seems most likely that Dorne can, in fact, field 50.000 men. That is the number Quentyn tells Dany. As Dorne is seeking to ally themselves with her, it is very likely the Martells would be lying to her. Dorne-25,000 is pretty much confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Currently, it seems most likely that Dorne can, in fact, field 50.000 men. That is the number Quentyn tells Dany. As Dorne is seeking to ally themselves with her, it is very likely the Martells would be lying to her. Well, except that Doran flat-out states that to be a lie when Arianne's coup goes down the drain. Arianne didn't knew either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Dorne-25,000 is pretty much confirmed. Where? Well, except that Doran flat-out states that to be a lie when Arianne's coup goes down the drain. Arianne didn't knew either. No. Doran states that Daeron I made Westeros believe that Dorne had greater numbers than it had in reality. Doran states that ever since, no ruler of Dorne has ever done anything to correct this, as they preferred people thinking they had greater numbers. Never is it stated that over the years, Dorne's amount of soldiers had remained the same. And as Quentyn was send on a personal mission by Doran, he would be well-informed, as to not try to sell himself to Dany with lies.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Of Thrones Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 This is Doran, the idiot who didn't give a book about dragons to the son who was going I et a dragon. What makes you think that Doran told Quentyn about the Martell lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 This is Doran, the idiot who didn't give a book about dragons to the son who was going I et a dragon. What makes you think that Doran told Quentyn about the Martell lie? Doran did not send Quentyn to get a fire-breathing dragon, he was sending Quentyn to get Dany, who would (as Doran would assume) be in control of her dragons. Doran overthinks everything. He would thus, most logically, also overthink Dany's reaction to being told that Dorne has 50.000 men, while in reality it has only 40.000 men, for example. Winning someone's alliance by lying to them, is the worst way to make an alliance, especially when it is a lie that you know will come out as soon as Dany's invasion into Westeros begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Doran also ruined Arianne by playing his cards too close to his chest before. And the Sandsnakes. And you could even make a case about Oberyn. He does not share information. Nor does he act in any way unless he experiences far too much pressure. Dany would never learn of it. You simply can't raise and count armies in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Doran did not send Quentyn to get a fire-breathing dragon, he was sending Quentyn to get Dany, who would (as Doran would assume) be in control of her dragons. Doran overthinks everything. He would thus, most logically, also overthink Dany's reaction to being told that Dorne has 50.000 men, while in reality it has only 40.000 men, for example. Winning someone's alliance by lying to them, is the worst way to make an alliance, especially when it is a lie that you know will come out as soon as Dany's invasion into Westeros begins. Daenerys would never know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Currently, it seems most likely that Dorne can, in fact, field 50.000 men. That is the number Quentyn tells Dany. As Dorne is seeking to ally themselves with her, it is very likely the Martells would be lying to her. That's a lie made up by Dareon, that the Dornishmen love to keep. Doran already said this to her daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 During a discussion between Tyrion and Varys in ACOK the number suggested is 50,000.Seems pretty believable to me...Dorne was able to survive under a 100,000+ strong Targ rule so the population of fighting men must be rather high...25,000 sounds like a low estimate with no real evidence.35,000 - 40,000 at least... That's actually what I'm saying... EVERYONE believes it to be true. Even Quentyn and Arianne. Only military experts like Stannis knows this (Jon himself believed it) But Doran told her it wasn't true in AFFC. The evidence is Dorne being the least populated Kingdom, and the Stormlands being just able to raise 35,000 men. Ergo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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