R+L=J v.85

[corbon]

Martin has never done a lot of horse exchanges, and entire Armies from Dorne have used that rout and they found places to sleep.

I'm just pointing out that its not necessarily true to say that 20 men can travel as fast as 7.

For example, I bet those entire Dornish armies didn't travel as fast as 7 riders though, or even stay at the same places.

Not Jon's secret, I am talking about traveling in secret, and pretty much everyone knows Ned went there. It's actually rather famous in Westeros.

Who alive knows Ned was at ToJ aside from Howland Reed and probably Wylla? The entire ToJ episode is almost entirely unknown in westeros, not famous. Its Starfall, returning Dawn, thats relatively famous.

Are we talking two different things here?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I'm thinking that the seven simply foreshadows Jon being a King, as mentioned above. And I think the number, in story, is random. Why not a bigger number? Simply, I think: Ned wanted discretion.

Yes, maybe he was told that he would find Lyanna there, but that's different from being told "yes, your sister is there, and Rhaegar married her and treated her well". Considering that he needed to fight the KG to get to her, I think he didn't know that she had been brought in good terms. So, he's told that Lyanna is there, and he probably expected to find her after being raped or hurt. That's not something he would want many men to see. Those men who went to him were man he could trust, not mere soldiers that could later open their mouths.

[jon rhaegar stark]

ok i know everyone is going to hate my idea now but it got into my mind so i want it to share

what if someone from both Ned and KG sides are still alive..consider this

one of KG is called as the White Bull and other as the Sword of the Morning

everyone says they are the most deadliest fighters in Seven kingdoms .jamie even says Arthur dayne can kill all five of them with one hand

how hard it will be for the three of them to survive the odds of seven against three..i mean one of them is Howland reed who is not known for his fighting skills and one of them spent most of his time in cells before Ned freed him

and we can be sure that Ned did not fight the entire battle when lyanna calls him he would have been clearing his way and reached her

he says when lyanna was dead that's where THEY found him holding lyanna's body..now i for one dont think it was servants because if anyone did really served lyanna they will be with her in the room and not outside where the fighting is going on

why it is so hard to believe that some may survived because if Ned could take time to return the Sword why cant his body ...if he can return the horse to Lady dustin why cant her husbands body ...why he tore down the tower and made them bury there

they could hide in with Reed because it is a safe place ...i mean no one is going to believe thw word of Howlannd Reed ..if he is the only one alive then i pray god he has a very strong evidence to prove R+L=J

because i dont think it will easy to convince the world with a buried dragon eggs or targaryan cloak because anyone can have those

[Ygrain]

ok i know everyone is going to hate my idea now but it got into my mind so i want it to share

what if someone from both Ned and KG sides are still alive..consider this

They had been seven against three, yet only two had lived to ride away; Eddard Stark himself and the little crannogman, Howland Reed.

That is consistent with building eight cairns for the fallen.

one of KG is called as the White Bull and other as the Sword of the Morning

everyone says they are the most deadliest fighters in Seven kingdoms .jamie even says Arthur dayne can kill all five of them with one hand

how hard it will be for the three of them to survive the odds of seven against three..i mean one of them is Howland reed who is not known for his fighting skills and one of them spent most of his time in cells before Ned freed him

And we also know that even a good fighter can have bad luck, not to mention that Jaime is quite a bit exaggerating (he doesn't say just that AD would take out five with one hand, he also says that he would do so while taking a piss with the other)

Plus, HR may have used some non-standard fighting technique, such as spear and net, and we have a comparable piece from Barristan's PoV about the boy efficiently using whip to immobilize his opponnent.

and we can be sure that Ned did not fight the entire battle when lyanna calls him he would have been clearing his way and reached her

That is purely your assumption, people don't normally leave their friends to handle dangerous enemies in order to have a chat with their sister, not to mention that leaving such dangerous enemies alive behind your back is a stupid idea.

Furthermore, it is not Lyanna screaming at him but the voice of Vayon Poole that got mixed into the dream as he was waking Ned; Lyanna always called him Ned, not Eddard.

he says when lyanna was dead that's where THEY found him holding lyanna's body..now i for one dont think it was servants because if anyone did really served lyanna they will be with her in the room and not outside where the fighting is going on

Per above, the chat definitely didn't happen during the fight but afterwards, and even if it did, Ned and Lyanna would most probably require privacy for a heart-to-heart talk after a year's separation and the shitload that happened meanwhile.

why it is so hard to believe that some may survived because if Ned could take time to return the Sword why cant his body ...if he can return the horse to Lady dustin why cant her husbands body ...why he tore down the tower and made them bury there

If he wants to return the bodies of the fallen, as well, he can't be selective and has to return all eight. The logistics of transporting eight male bodies over no small distances and with no Silent Sisters around in warm climate might have been a bit too much to handle.

they could hide in with Reed because it is a safe place ...i mean no one is going to believe thw word of Howlannd Reed ..if he is the only one alive then i pray god he has a very strong evidence to prove R+L=J

because i dont think it will easy to convince the world with a buried dragon eggs or targaryan cloak because anyone can have those

And who says that Ned ever intended to reveal Jon's true parentage to the world? Robert was his new king and Ned let Jon swear the NW vows, so he apparently never planned any Targaryen restoration.

[Mario Stark]

I belive in R+L=J because Rhaegar is Fire and Lyanna is Ice and that would mean. Jom Snow is The Song of Ice and Fire,

[Juliet Burke]

I belive in R+L=J because Rhaegar is Fire and Lyanna is Ice and that would mean. Jom Snow is The Song of Ice and Fire,

Yes, maybe.

Some people who wants to disprove R+L say that GRRM said that Jon's parentage is much more complicated than we think. Is it right? Did he really say so?

[Ghost's Shadow]

Do you honestly think he's going to say "Shit, you figured it out."

Same with his wife?

[Mario Stark]

Do you honestly think he's going to say "Shit, you figured it out."

Same with his wife?

No. hes not going to say "You figured it out". But we will probably get to know the truth in the next book.

[sj4iy]

No. hes not going to say "You figured it out". But we will probably get to know the truth in the next book.

He said that one would reveal his 'big mystery' in the 6th book.

[Juliet Burke]

He said that one would reveal his 'big mystery' in the 6th book.

And when is the 6th book going to release?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

And when is the 6th book going to release?

Nobody knows ;)

[sj4iy]

Nobody knows ;)

The Shadow knows!

[jon rhaegar stark]

the release of the next book is bigger mystery than R+L=J

[Ygritte]

Nobody knows ;)

That is the biggest mystery of all! :D

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

That is the biggest mystery of all! :D

Indeed. And one with little to no clues.. :(

[BearQueen87]

Yes, maybe.

Some people who wants to disprove R+L say that GRRM said that Jon's parentage is much more complicated than we think. Is it right? Did he really say so?

Personally, by complicated I think he means R and L being married and being in love, that Rhaegar did not actually steal her away in the middle of the night and rape her to death.

Many people might have figured out that R and L = J but maybe haven't picked up on the fact that there's a whole lot else going on.

And when is the 6th book going to release?

We can only hope soon...

[FittleLinger]

A man hopes before or during season 5...

[Ygritte]

Personally, by complicated I think he means R and L being married and being in love, that Rhaegar did not actually steal her away in the middle of the night and rape her to death.

Many people might have figured out that R and L = J but maybe haven't picked up on the fact that there's a whole lot else going on.

Yeah, for me it kind of came in stages. I figured out R+L=J pretty quickly, and then later started thinking "Hmmm, maybe she actually liked him" (I think ruminating on Bob's pride was what made me think of that; I've even seen that in real life, where somebody would rather believe their ex, or whoever, was coerced than that they just chose someone else) and the marriage thing didn't occur to me for years.

[FittleLinger]

Yeah, for me it kind of came in stages. I figured out R+L=J pretty quickly, and then later started thinking "Hmmm, maybe she actually liked him" (I think ruminating on Bob's pride was what made me think of that; I've even seen that in real life, where somebody would rather believe their ex, or whoever, was coerced than that they just chose someone else) and the marriage thing didn't occur to me for years.

Or, simpler explanation - most of the people who haven't reread and are just following the story through (and that's most people) are still looking for Jon's mother, the father being Ned. So that's what's more complicated - Martin is making them ask the wrong question, Jon is still Ned's relative, and Jon is totally not some random bastard...

[Ygritte]

Or, simpler explanation - most of the people who haven't reread and are just following the story through (and that's most people) are still looking for Jon's mother, the father being Ned. So that's what's more complicated - Martin is making them ask the wrong question, Jon is still Ned's relative, and Jon is totally not some random bastard...

Yeah, I actually remember thinking, while I was first sounding out the theory in my head, "But Jon looks just like Ned!" and then I was like "D'oh! He's still his nephew! And Lyanna looked just like Ned! It's not like they're not related at all."