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Khal Jhaqo will be dragon food… what a nonsense!


Mithras

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A horse can weigh well over a thousand pounds, and lifting one --even with difficulty-- is no mean feat. Of course, Drogon doesn't have to lift anything or anyone, he just has to burn all of them while the riders try to bring their frightened horses under control.


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I don't think they were hunting Drogon... If anything, I think perhaps the khalasar was on its way to either Vaes Dothrak or Meereen. It was Dany who made Drogon follow the scout back to the khalasar - she's the one hunting them.



Drogon would certainly have a problem against fifty warriors. But there are two important differences between facing the Dothraki and the warriors in Daznak's Pit:


  1. Now, Drogon has Dany on his side. A rider on a dragon is much more threatening than a wild dragon.
  2. More importantly, time and time again we've been shown that horses react badly to the dragons. One burst of flame and Dany will have an immediate advantage over Jhaqo.

There's no reason to assume that Drogon would flee. There's perhaps a slight possibility that he leaves immediately, but he certainly won't leave if the Dothraki start attacking him or Daenerys. Dany even tells us that a dragon's first instinct is to attack, not flee, and that's been demonstrated throughout ADwD. Even when he leaves Meereen at the beginning of ADwD, it's more about him not returning than fleeing attack.





IMHO, Jhaqo and Mago hate her. In their eyes, she killed their friend, and leader, Khal Drogo. If Drogon was killed or driven off, I think Dany would be killed as well, and probably raped and tortured into the bargain.



I don't think that's where Dany's story is going.





Exactly. The crucial detail is that this is Jhaqo's khalasar. If it was Khal Pono who had found her, I could buy that he would maybe just take her back to Vaes Dothrak without harming her... But Mago and Jhaqo are different - there's too much conflict between her and them.



I don't think the exchange will be as tidy as Dany killing Jhaqo and Mago and taking control of the khalasar... But at the same time, it just wouldn't make sense for Dany to be abandoned by Drogon with two men who would gladly kill her (and worse). If anything, I think she'll use the threat of Drogon to trick Jhaqo into escorting her back to Vaes Dothrak, under the premise that she'll join the dosh khaleen. Once there, she'll kill them without shedding any blood.






If Dany needs to be the StMtW, she needs to be brought back to VD, and she won't do that willingly.





I think it's clear that it's Dany's plan to go to Vaes Dothrak - that's why she follows the scout to the khalasar. Dany knows she's not supposed to go back to Meereen because Drogon won't take her there, so why else would she head towards Jhaqo's khalasar unless she knew she had to go somewhere else?



Obviously GRRM doesn't make Dany think "I need to go to Vaes Dothrak", just like he never made her think "I'm going to hatch dragons in Drogo's funeral pyre" or "I'm going to have Drogon burn Kraznys". She has a plan, and it's going to be hidden from the reader until it happens.




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How much you wanna bet that Khal Jhaqo gets all crazy and starts shouting orders to his blood riders yet he gets killed by his own men like what happened to the Ironborn at Moar Cailin.

Drogo won't need kill Jhaqo bc he will get killed by his own men who think it will be wiser to stab him from behind than to fight a dragon.

End of discussion

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I think it's clear that it's Dany's plan to go to Vaes Dothrak - that's why she follows the scout to the khalasar. Dany knows she's not supposed to go back to Meereen because Drogon won't take her there, so why else would she head towards Jhaqo's khalasar unless she knew she had to go somewhere else?

Obviously GRRM doesn't make Dany think "I need to go to Vaes Dothrak", just like he never made her think "I'm going to hatch dragons in Drogo's funeral pyre" or "I'm going to have Drogon burn Kraznys". She has a plan, and it's going to be hidden from the reader until it happens.

It isn't, we hear nothing in her POV about going back to VD, she clearly states she wants to return to Meereen. She has no thoughts about her being the StMtW. Drogon won't take her there? If he returned there once after being attacked, I think he could do it again with some nudging. She is going to return eventually.

She was simply letting Drogon take her for the ride, and Drogon was going along his regular hunting path. She may have wanted to see humans after being isolated from human contact for so long. I don't see any plan, not hear any. Are you saying she come up with a plan in just a few minutes with no forethought after just seeing a Dothraki scout? She doesn't even have full control over Drogon to do that.

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It isn't, we hear nothing in her POV about going back to VD, she clearly states she wants to return to Meereen. She has no thoughts about her being the StMtW. Drogon won't take her there? If he returned there once after being attacked, I think he could do it again with some nudging. She is going to return eventually.

She was simply letting Drogon take her for the ride, and Drogon was going along his regular hunting path. She may have wanted to see humans after being isolated from human contact for so long. I don't see any plan, not hear any. Are you saying she come up with a plan in just a few minutes with no forethought after just seeing a Dothraki scout? She doesn't even have full control over Drogon to do that.

It would be terrible writing to waste an entire book that revolves around Dany not accepting who she is and not being able to control Drogon just so she can have a second "controlling her dragon arc" in TWOW. The last scene where she rides Drogon and shares food with him is meant to represent the fact that they are fully bonded now and she controlls him, there is no narrative need to continue the "how to tame your dragon arc".

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She went to the Dothraki on her own, that much is clear. I can't rule out that she'll go to Vaes Dothrak - if so, then she'll be in control, though - but 'To go forward, I must go back' could also be symbolically realized by the fact that she sought out/rejoined the Dothraki. We don't have to see her talking to that old crones again.



There won't anyone left in Slaver's Bay should she really go (or be dragged to) Vaes Dothrak. That's a long journey, even on dragonback, and if she would be separated from Drogon - or go there with Jhaqo's khalasar - it would take much longer. There isn't time for this kind of irrelevant stuff.


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It isn't, we hear nothing in her POV about going back to VD, she clearly states she wants to return to Meereen. She has no thoughts about her being the StMtW. Drogon won't take her there? If he returned there once after being attacked, I think he could do it again with some nudging. She is going to return eventually.

She was simply letting Drogon take her for the ride, and Drogon was going along his regular hunting path. She may have wanted to see humans after being isolated from human contact for so long. I don't see any plan, not hear any. Are you saying she come up with a plan in just a few minutes with no forethought after just seeing a Dothraki scout? She doesn't even have full control over Drogon to do that.

That is clearly not what happens in the chapter.

She spends her time in the Dothraki Sea trying to get Drogon to take her back to Meereen. He refuses, so she begins following a stream, in the hopes that it will take her to the Skahazadhan. Whilst walking, she has some kind of epiphany and realises that "Meereen was not her home, and never would be". Afterwards, she sees a scout from Jhaqo's khalasar and calls Drogon. She says that "to go forward, I must go back" and follows the scout to the khalasar, with Drogon obeying her directions for the first time.

So there are some clear conclusions to draw:

  • Dany has decided that she is not going to continue her return to Meereen (at least at this present time).

She has some kind of idea where she must go next ("to go forward, I must go back").

Drogon obeys her for the first time since she first rode him - for the first time, they both want to go in the same direction.

It means very little that she does not mention Vaes Dothrak in her POV. She also never mentioned turning against Kraznys or hatching dragons in her POV, but they still happened. But, just like in both of those previous chapters, we are given clues. The biggest one is that Dany has a destination in mind: "to go forward, I must go back".

ADwD was about Dany accepting who she is and gaining power through that. I sincerely doubt TWoW is going to open with Dany being dragged unwilling back to Vaes Dothrak and having to tame Drogon all over again.

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That is clearly not what happens in the chapter.

She spends her time in the Dothraki Sea trying to get Drogon to take her back to Meereen. He refuses, so she begins following a stream, in the hopes that it will take her to the Skahazadhan. Whilst walking, she has some kind of epiphany and realises that "Meereen was not her home, and never would be". Afterwards, she sees a scout from Jhaqo's khalasar and calls Drogon. She says that "to go forward, I must go back" and follows the scout to the khalasar, with Drogon obeying her directions for the first time.

She had not made attempt to ride dragon while they were at Dragonstone, and she left to follow the stream leaving Drogon. "Meereen was not her home and never would be" goes in line with her deciding to revert back to her original plan to take Westeros. She calls Drogon after seeing him, and the burn spots indicate that Drogon was on his regular hunting path as Dany realized.

So there are some clear conclusions to draw:

  • Dany has decided that she is not going to continue her return to Meereen (at least at this present time).
  • She has some kind of idea where she must go next ("to go forward, I must go back").
  • Drogon obeys her for the first time since she first rode him - for the first time, they both want to go in the same direction.
  • That is not stated anywhere it the text, so there are nothing to draw that conclusion from.
  • She wants to go back to Meereen, and then to Westeros
  • Drogon was on his regular hunting path from the looks of it. He went willingly since it was likely the same direction he was going.

It means very little that she does not mention Vaes Dothrak in her POV. She also never mentioned turning against Kraznys or hatching dragons in her POV, but they still happened. But, just like in both of those previous chapters, we are given clues. The biggest one is that Dany has a destination in mind: "to go forward, I must go back".

ADwD was about Dany accepting who she is and gaining power through that. I sincerely doubt TWoW is going to open with Dany being dragged unwilling back to Vaes Dothrak and having to tame Drogon all over again.

It does mean something. The times she didn't mention her future actions, they occurred in the same chapter. Going to VD would be a different chapter in a new book. I am sorry, but there is nothing pointing to Dany wanting to go back to VD. You are saying she made a big decision without any forethought right after seeing a Dothraki scout?

Dany indicated she wants to go back to Meereen, if she willingly goes back to VD she would be abandoning her other two children: Rhaegal and Viserion, along with her army, khalasar, friends and freedmen. She has to go back. I think she likely is going to be dragged back to VD, as GRRM makes the lows low to make the highs higher. He puts his characters in bad situations before they rise higher: Davos was imprisoned before becoming Hand, Jon was in Mance's tent on a suicide mission and with Slynt an impending LC only for Stannis to arrive and himself to be named LC, Tyrion was a slave before likely rising high in Meereen and as Dany's top advisor, and finally, Dany lost her husband and son along with her khalasar before hatching her dragon eggs. As GRRM himself said "things need to get worse before they get better."

Therefore, Dany may likely be in a bad situation in VD before she uses Drogon to unite the khalasars, and be the StMtW.

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But I agree with the OP that nor will her and Drogon simply burn up Jhago and his dothraki. The way the text is written at the end of DwD it suggests that she is with the dothraki again, not in battle against them or frightened. I had a great feeling at the end of that chapter, like 'here is another misfit bunch Dany is going to take under her wing.'

Yea thats how i saw it too, that she joined with them not that she was going to kill them or they were going to kill her.

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She had not made attempt to ride dragon while they were at Dragonstone, and she left to follow the stream leaving Drogon. "Meereen was not her home and never would be" goes in line with her deciding to revert back to her original plan to take Westeros. She calls Drogon after seeing him, and the burn spots indicate that Drogon was on his regular hunting path as Dany realized.

  • That is not stated anywhere it the text, so there are nothing to draw that conclusion from.

She wants to go back to Meereen, and then to Westeros

Drogon was on his regular hunting path from the looks of it. He went willingly since it was likely the same direction he was going.

It does mean something. The times she didn't mention her future actions, they occurred in the same chapter. Going to VD would be a different chapter in a new book. I am sorry, but there is nothing pointing to Dany wanting to go back to VD. You are saying she made a big decision without any forethought right after seeing a Dothraki scout?

Dany indicated she wants to go back to Meereen, if she willingly goes back to VD she would be abandoning her other two children: Rhaegal and Viserion, along with her army, khalasar, friends and freedmen. She has to go back. I think she likely is going to be dragged back to VD, as GRRM makes the lows low to make the highs higher. He puts his characters in bad situations before they rise higher: Davos was imprisoned before becoming Hand, Jon was in Mance's tent on a suicide mission and with Slynt an impending LC only for Stannis to arrive and himself to be named LC, Tyrion was a slave before likely rising high in Meereen and as Dany's top advisor, and finally, Dany lost her husband and son along with her khalasar before hatching her dragon eggs. As GRRM himself said "things need to get worse before they get better."

Thereofre, Dany may likely be in a bad situation in VD before she uses Drogon to unite the khalasars, and be the StMtW.

It is shown in the text that she wasn't going to Meereen anymore at least for now. If she was still going to Meereen as you stated then what was the point of "to go forward I must go back" ?

Also there is nothing wrong with Dany abandoning people in Meereen for now, she even gave it a thought whiles she was on Dragonstone, and infact thats the point of this chapter "for her to choose between Meereen or Drogon" hence the imagery of one sandal being left in Meereen and another one at Drogon's cave.

Dany won't abandon her people on the long run obviously but there is nothing wrong with the assumption that she will embark on a personal journey before she goes back to Meereen based on what has been given to us in the text.

I also don't see why you think it is necessary for Dany to be in bad situation before she is in a good one, and even by that line of thought most of ADWD she was in a bad situation.

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I have never been under the impression that Daenerys is going to kill Khal Jhaqo right then and there.

This, too. GRRM said Mago would be a recurring character in TWOW which suggests Dany won't immediately roast the guy (despite impassioned speech).

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IMHO, Jhaqo and Mago hate her. In their eyes, she killed their friend, and leader, Khal Drogo. If Drogon was killed or driven off, I think Dany would be killed as well, and probably raped and tortured into the bargain.

I don't think that's where Dany's story is going.

I agree but I think that IS where Dany's story is going. When this happened I saw everything occur as a circle. I have a feeling that Dany will be brought low so that she may rise again stronger. Over subsequent time her Khalasar has been overshadowed by her Unsullied. I would like to see her lean more toward the Dothraki culture which made her strong in the first place. I would like to see her become a true Khaleesi once more.

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It is shown in the text that she wasn't going to Meereen anymore at least for now. If she was still going to Meereen as you stated then what was the point of "to go forward I must go back" ?

She was pondering it, and that is no indication she wanted to go to VD.

Also there is nothing wrong with Dany abandoning people in Meereen for now, she even gave it a thought whiles she was on Dragonstone, and infact thats the point of this chapter "for her to choose between Meereen or Drogon" hence the imagery of one sandal being left in Meereen and another one at Drogon's cave.

Dany won't abandon her people on the long run obviously but there is nothing wrong with the assumption that she will embark on a personal journey before she goes back to Meereen based on what has been given to us in the text.

Meereen is surrounded by enemies, and the situation requires her to be there. She needs to get to Meereen ASAP. The personal journey wouldn't be by choice.

I also don't see why you think it is necessary for Dany to be in bad situation before she is in a good one, and even by that line of thought most of ADWD she was in a bad situation.

Because that is what GRRM has consistently done, make the lows lower before the highs or in his own words: "things need to get worse before they get better." The bad situation is where the character is imperiled. Dany still had dragons and an army in Meereen with comfortable quarters in the Great Pyramid. Davos was imprisoned, Jon was on a mission that would likely result in him getting killed, and Jaime lost his hand and was very sick because of it. She didn't get her dragons to hatch while Drogo was alive with his khalasar intact, but after he died, his khalasar disintegrated and she was left almost nothing. Characters don't reach their highest point until they're at their lowest point.

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Dany tried to be the all powerful monarch in Meereen and it didn't seem to fit her character or her story arch, so it could be that this is the moment that she truly getst back her agency. If anything, I am curious as to what the Dothraki feel towards those that ride dragons. For a culture that prizes the ability to mount a horse, there might be something they respect in Dragon riders as it is a mount that overshadows the horse in pretty much every way.


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The carcass was too heavy for him to bear back to his lair, so Drogon consumed his kill there,

Drogon is the biggest dragon who grew even bigger in the wild but he is not able to lift the carcass of a horse. Or let us say he can lift it for a short time but cannot carry it to his lair.

Compare him to the dragons that were able to fully devour a horse. He is like a fly compared to them. Cannibal probably could have Drogon for breakfast.

That was how Khal Jhaqo found her, when half a hundred mounted warriors emerged from the drifting smoke.

Jhaqo emerges with 50 Dothraki warriors and the text suggests that they were hunting Drogon for a long time. The place is Drogon’s hunting ground as hinted by the burned ground from previous hunts. That means the Dothraki were expecting him.

I bet they will be far more formidable than the staff of Daznak’s Pit with boar spears. Even they were able to wound Drogon and all he did was to kill some but run for his life in the end.

So, Jhaqo will attack Drogon and he will fly away to save his life. Then Jhaqo will capture Dany who is left behind.

Any other scenario involving a dracarys of Dany and Drogon burning the crisp out of them is simply not paying attention to the text.

Discuss.

Dany will kill Jhaqo like she promised, and take his khallassar, remember the dothraki follow power, which Dany has through drogon, and the dothraki follow powerful mounted warriors, Dany on a dragon is the pinnacle of that.

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I don't know what's gonna happen to Dany on TWoW, but I'm pretty sure she will survive. GRRM wouldn't leave Dany alive at the end of the fifth book if she wasn't gonna get the upper hand later. Just like Tyrion in aCoK, he ends up powerless and on the brink of death only to have his comeback on aSoS. I believe the same is gonna happen to Daenerys


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Sorry for not responding so long. I will try to answer the unanswered posts but first let us remind certain things.



She would sooner have returned to Meereen on dragon’s wings, to be sure. But that was a desire Drogon did not seem to share.


The dragonlords of old Valyria had controlled their mounts with binding spells and sorcerous horns. Daenerys made do with a word and a whip. Mounted on the dragon’s back, she oft felt as if she were learning to ride all over again. When she whipped her silver mare on her right flank the mare went left, for a horse’s first instinct is to flee from danger. When she laid the whip across Drogon’s right side he veered right, for a dragon’s first instinct is always to attack. Sometimes it did not seem to matter where she struck him, though; sometimes he went where he would and took her with him. Neither whip nor words could turn Drogon if he did not wish to be turned. The whip annoyed him more than it hurt him, she had come to see; his scales had grown harder than horn.


And no matter how far the dragon flew each day, come nightfall some instinct drew him home to Dragonstone. His home, not mine. Her home was back in Meereen, with her husband and her lover. That was where she belonged, surely.



How is this supposed to mean that Dany is fully bonded with Drogon and can control him as she likes? Drogon tolerates her and allows her to mount him but she cannot make him do what she wants all the time.



Thrice that day she caught sight of Drogon. Once he was so far off that he might have been an eagle, slipping in and out of distant clouds, but Dany knew the look of him by now, even when he was no more than a speck. The second time he passed before the sun, his black wings spread, and the world darkened. The last time he flew right above her, so close she could hear the sound of his wings. For half a heartbeat Dany thought that he was hunting her, but he flew on without taking any notice of her and vanished somewhere in the east.



If Dany is fully bonded to Drogon, why did she think that Drogon is hunting her?



From below a spear came flying, followed by a flight of crossbow bolts. One passed so close that Dany felt it brush her cheek. Others skittered off Drogon’s scales, lodged between them, or tore through the membrane of his wings. She remembered the dragon twisting beneath her, shuddering at the impacts, as she tried desperately to cling to his scaled back.



Daenerys Targaryen vaulted onto the dragon’s back, seized the spear, and ripped it out. The point was half-melted, the iron red-hot, glowing. She flung it aside. Drogon twisted under her, his muscles rippling as he gathered his strength.



North they flew, beyond the river, Drogon gliding on torn and tattered wings through clouds that whipped by like the banners of some ghostly army.



Drogon was attacked by spears, arrows and bolts in the pit. Although Dany said that a dragon’s first instinct is to attack, Drogon only attacked those who attacked him. The membranes of his wings were damaged by the arrows and the bolts. If simple Mereeneese men can damage him like that, what can the Dothraki warriors do to him when he is on the ground? Besides, there were fewer spearmen in the pit. Here we have 50 Dothraki warriors.



Dany watched him go. When the sound of his hooves had faded away to silence, she began to shout. She called until her voice was hoarse … and Drogon came, snorting plumes of smoke. The grass bowed down before him. Dany leapt onto his back. She stank of blood and sweat and fear, but none of that mattered. “To go forward I must go back,” she said. Her bare legs tightened around the dragon’s neck. She kicked him, and Drogon threw himself into the sky. Her whip was gone, so she used her hands and feet and turned him north by east, the way the scout had gone. Drogon went willingly enough; perhaps he smelled the rider’s fear.



Drogon stopped by to take Dany who directed him to the scout. But Drogon was already willing to go there because he was hunting and the vast herd of horses was ahead. He did not need Dany’s guidance in this.



A vast herd of horses appeared below them. There were riders too, a score or more, but they turned and fled at the first sight of the dragon. The horses broke and ran when the shadow fell upon them, racing through the grass until their sides were white with foam, tearing the ground with their hooves … but as swift as they were, they could not fly. Soon one horse began to lag behind the others.



The green sea opened. A rider appeared. His braid was black and shiny, his skin as dark as burnished copper, his eyes the shape of bitter almonds. Bells sang in his hair. He wore a medallion belt and painted vest, with an arakh on one hip and a whip on the other. A hunting bow and a quiver of arrows were slung from his saddle.


One rider, and alone. A scout. He was one who rode before the khalasar to find the game and the good green grass, and sniff out foes wherever they might hide. If he found her there, he would kill her, rape her, or enslave her. At best, he would send her back to the crones of the dosh khaleen, where good khaleesi were supposed to go when their khals had died.


He did not see her, though. The grass concealed her, and he was looking elsewhere. Dany followed his eyes, and there the shadow flew, with wings spread wide. The dragon was a mile off, and yet the scout stood frozen until his stallion began to whicker in fear. Then he woke as if from a dream, wheeled his mount about, and raced off through the tall grass at a gallop.



Jhaqo has a vast herd of horses which is frequently visited by Drogon. The scout was obviously watching for the dragon. Horses are the most precious properties of the Dothraki and winter is coming. A shepherd is supposed to protect his herd. The Dothraki expected Drogon to return. They were prepared for him. They mean to take him down or drive him away. Jhaqo is leading a hunting party, not simple horse guards. As a khal and the strongest man in the khalassar, his presence can only be explained like this.


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