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Khal Jhaqo will be dragon food… what a nonsense!


Mithras

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Not to mention that having horses is going to be a huge disadvantage.

Yes, horses do not fare well against dragons at all. I am very certain that neither Dany nor Jhago is planning on immediately killing the other one. Dany speaks Dothraki, that has to come into play for something. If she did not speak Dothraki, she would probably be in more trouble here.

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I'm pretty sure the superstitious, afraid-of-a-little-salt-water, rider-worshipping Dothraki are going to lose their shit if Daenerys mounts a dragon named after their former Khal and starts barbecuing Khal Jhaqo. She doesn't need to defeat 50 Dothraki. She just needs to defeat one asshole rapist, and the rest will follow Daenerys loyally for the rest of their lives. If she leaves this area with less than the entirety of Khal Jhaqo's khalasar, I'll be disappointed.



If she's going to Vaes Dothrak, it's of her own volition with the express purpose of uniting all the khalasars into one and becoming the filly that mounts the world (well, at least Essos).


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It also wouldn't surprise me if Daenerys had learned to warg Drogon while she was with him, meaning she can control him quite easily by now. It usually took some traumatic event to enable the Stark children to warg (Bran watching Winterfell burn and getting some training from Jojen), Arya getting blinded and bonked in the head by the kindly man, Robb having to go to war and getting crowned king (yes, I think he was warging the shit out of Grey Wind in order to gain tactical advantages - secret goat trail, anyone?), and Jon getting stabbed a little.


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That's simply wrong. She had ridden Drogon numerous times prior to the start of the chapter:

That is exaggerating, she had ridden him only once before the start of the chapter, and I don't think anyone would call once numerous. She doesn't describe any other trips. Don't state someone is wrong when you have nothing in the text to back your claim.

She is clearly not describing her first experience riding Drogon. She has evidently made a number of attempts since then, with the same outcome: Drogon will not follow her directions to Meereen.

Except she is describing her trip from Meereen to Drogon's cave. She doesn't describe any other trips. She was trying to learn how to steer him on their trip. She tried to turn him back for Meereen, which makes sense.

  • It doesn't need to be stated, it's all subtext. Dany rejects Meereen, as it is "not her home, and never would be". She then follows the scout back to Jhaqo's khalasar, declaring that "to go forward, I must go back", after which Drogon lets her direct him.
  • She deliberately changes her path from Meereen. The whole chapter is about her realising that she's going in the wrong direction.
  • There are many explanations for why Drogon may have obeyed Dany. For me, based on the structure of the chapter, it's intended to show us that Drogon and Dany finally want the same thing again - that's what the whole chapter is about. GRRM has even said in a recent Q&A that the bond between dragon and dragonrider is hugely significant.
  • Again I find it unlikely she decided to go to VD just after seeing a scout without any forethought. She rejects Meereen for Westeros. She has no indicated that she wants to go to VD. She thinks Drogon lets her direct him, from the looks of it he was going along a regular hunting path.
  • No, she doesn't. She still intends to go to Meereen, but not stay there but to go to Westeros.
  • She wanted to follow the rider since she likely craved human contact, and Drogon followed him because he was hungry.

I'm sorry but where did I state that Dany would not return to Meereen? I said she is abandoning her return CURRENTLY because she has to go back before she can go forward. I mean, I personally don't think she'll ever get to return to Meereen (I think she'll learn of its destruction from Jhaqo or when she's in Vaes Dothrak).

I also agree that Dany will be in a bad position before things get better... I just think that, this time, it'll be part of her intentions. And I certainly don't think she'll be "dragged back". If this was Pono's khalasar I'd perhaps agree with you, but Jhaqo and Mago will want to do far worse to her than just take her back to Vaes Dothrak, and I don't think that's the kind of "low" GRRM has in mind for her.

You just stated that she wouldn't to return to Meereen right after you asked that question. I doubt she won't return to Meereen, as her other dragons, army and friends are still there, and she still wants to go to Westeros. She has to get to Westeros with her army, and the Dothraki fear the sea. From the TWoW spoilers, Meereen isn't doomed but the opposite. Besides, how would Tyrion run into Dany without her returning?

I don't think it is her intention to be captured. Jhaqo is still Dothraki, and custom would require him to take her to the dosh khaleen in VD.

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Fire Eater,


When Drogon gets Dany from the pit, that is the first time the fly and the end of the chapter. When the next chapter begins on Dragonstone it is at least a week later. Since the first time she rode on him she rode on him several more times.



"She would have sooner returned to Meereen on dragon's wings, to be sure. But that was a desire Drogon did not seem to share. ........MOunted on Drogon's back, she oft felt as if she were learning to ride all over again.......Sometimes it did not seem to matter where she struck him, though; sometimes he went where he would and took her with him. Neither whip nor words could turn Drogon if he did not wish to be turned.......A few aches, an empty belly, chills by night..what does it matter when you can fly?"




Then the clencher;



"Was that first flight a thousand years ago? Sometimes it seemed as if it must be."





So yes, it is very clearly spelled out that she had several flights on Drogon between fleeing the pit and the beginning of the chapter. She says she 'oft' felt, meaning she flew often. She says 'sometimes' meaning more than once. Then she says 'was the first flight a thousand years ago', meaning there have been many flights since the first one.


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Fire Eater,

When Drogon gets Dany from the pit, that is the first time the fly and the end of the chapter. When the next chapter begins on Dragonstone it is at least a week later. Since the first time she rode on him she rode on him several more times.

"She would have sooner returned to Meereen on dragon's wings, to be sure. But that was a desire Drogon did not seem to share. ........MOunted on Drogon's back, she oft felt as if she were learning to ride all over again.......Sometimes it did not seem to matter where she struck him, though; sometimes he went where he would and took her with him. Neither whip nor words could turn Drogon if he did not wish to be turned.......A few aches, an empty belly, chills by night..what does it matter when you can fly?"

Then the clencher;

"Was that first flight a thousand years ago? Sometimes it seemed as if it must be."

So yes, it is very clearly spelled out that she had several flights on Drogon between fleeing the pit and the beginning of the chapter. She says she 'oft' felt, meaning she flew often. She says 'sometimes' meaning more than once. Then she says 'was the first flight a thousand years ago', meaning there have been many flights since the first one.

Just what I was about to say :agree:

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She was pondering it, and that is no indication she wanted to go to VD.

Meereen is surrounded by enemies, and the situation requires her to be there. She needs to get to Meereen ASAP. The personal journey wouldn't be by choice.

Because that is what GRRM has consistently done, make the lows lower before the highs or in his own words: "things need to get worse before they get better." The bad situation is where the character is imperiled. Dany still had dragons and an army in Meereen with comfortable quarters in the Great Pyramid. Davos was imprisoned, Jon was on a mission that would likely result in him getting killed, and Jaime lost his hand and was very sick because of it. She didn't get her dragons to hatch while Drogo was alive with his khalasar intact, but after he died, his khalasar disintegrated and she was left almost nothing. Characters don't reach their highest point until they're at their lowest point.

She wasn't pondering, it was a descision she clearly made. Actually this is the first descision Dany makes the whole chapter, throughout the chapter she ponders between staying at Drogon's cave and going to Meereen.

“To go forward I must go back,” she said. Her bare legs tightened around the dragon’s

neck. She kicked him, and Drogon threw himself into the sky. Her whip was gone, so she used her hands and feet and turned him north by east, the way the scout had gone. Drogon went willingly enough;

perhaps he smelled the rider’s fear.

Drogon wasn't following his hunting path, because he was in the complete opposite direction when Dany called him. Dany made the decision to turn him north east, the text didn't say Drogon turned north-east it said Dany turned him and from the lands of Ice and fire north east is Vaes Dothrak.

Things do get worse, and that is exactly what happened to Dany in ADWD, we cant compare Dany's bad to other character's bad because every character's arc is it's own story as GRRM stated. Focusing only on Dany's arc ADWD was clearly a bad situation for her she was basically a prisoner forced to accept decisions of others, Drogon's return was the turning point you speak of.

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That is exaggerating, she had ridden him only once before the start of the chapter, and I don't think anyone would call once numerous. She doesn't describe any other trips. Don't state someone is wrong when you have nothing in the text to back your claim.

Your claim that "She had not made attempt to ride dragon while they were at Dragonstone" has been clearly debunked by text others have quoted.

  • Again I find it unlikely she decided to go to VD just after seeing a scout without any forethought. She rejects Meereen for Westeros. She has no indicated that she wants to go to VD. She thinks Drogon lets her direct him, from the looks of it he was going along a regular hunting path.
  • She wanted to follow the rider since she likely craved human contact, and Drogon followed him because he was hungry.

No, she didn't "crave human contact" from a man she thought "would kill her, rape her, or enslave her. At best, he would send her back to the crones of the dosh khaleen, where good khaleesi were supposed to go when their khals had died."

Then: "Dany watched him go. When the sound of his hooves had faded away to silence, she began to shout. She called until her voice was hoarse … and Drogon came, snorting plumes of smoke. The grass bowed down before him. Dany leapt onto his back. She stank of blood and sweat and fear, but none of that mattered. “To go forward I must go back,” she said. Her bare legs tightened around the dragon’s neck. She kicked him, and Drogon threw himself into the sky. Her whip was gone, so she used her hands and feet and turned him north by east, the way the scout had gone."

Twice previous in this chapter, she thought "If I look back I am lost" in reference to forging ahead to Meereen and not going back to Drogon. Her acceptance of "To go forward I must go back" means she's turned back from her plan to walk to Meereen and is clearly trying to go back to the Dothraki. This dovetails with her suspicion that someone tried to poison her and her realization that she's surrendered too much to her enemies, her acceptance of "fire and blood." She intends to return to Meereen with an army.

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Fire Eater,

When Drogon gets Dany from the pit, that is the first time the fly and the end of the chapter. When the next chapter begins on Dragonstone it is at least a week later. Since the first time she rode on him she rode on him several more times.

"She would have sooner returned to Meereen on dragon's wings, to be sure. But that was a desire Drogon did not seem to share. ........MOunted on Drogon's back, she oft felt as if she were learning to ride all over again.......Sometimes it did not seem to matter where she struck him, though; sometimes he went where he would and took her with him. Neither whip nor words could turn Drogon if he did not wish to be turned.......A few aches, an empty belly, chills by night..what does it matter when you can fly?"

Then the clencher;

"Was that first flight a thousand years ago? Sometimes it seemed as if it must be."

So yes, it is very clearly spelled out that she had several flights on Drogon between fleeing the pit and the beginning of the chapter. She says she 'oft' felt, meaning she flew often. She says 'sometimes' meaning more than once. Then she says 'was the first flight a thousand years ago', meaning there have been many flights since the first one.

Actually, no it never mentions other flights, and it isn't clearly spelled, it is what you interpret it to be. Whether or not she had ridden Drogon more than once, that still would have been her first flight, so that can't be used to support your case. As to the first quote it mentions her on Drogon's back, it doesn't mention how many times. She likely struck him with the whip when she could have ridden him back to his cave, the trip would have been many hours. Oft could have referred to the different feelings she had riding Drogon, the feeling most often felt was learning to ride again.

She wasn't pondering, it was a descision she clearly made. Actually this is the first descision Dany makes the whole chapter, throughout the chapter she ponders between staying at Drogon's cave and going to Meereen.

“To go forward I must go back,” she said. Her bare legs tightened around the dragon’s
neck. She kicked him, and Drogon threw himself into the sky. Her whip was gone, so she used her hands and feet and turned him north by east, the way the scout had gone. Drogon went willingly enough;
perhaps he smelled the rider’s fear.
Drogon wasn't following his hunting path, because he was in the complete opposite direction when Dany called him. Dany made the decision to turn him north east, the text didn't say Drogon turned north-east it said Dany turned him and from the lands of Ice and fire north east is Vaes Dothrak.

Drogon has come this way before, she realized. Like a chain of grey islands, the marks of his hunting dotted the green grass sea.

He was following a regular hunting path as the burn marks Dany saw in grass plainly show Drogon had hunted there many times before. He came down to where she was only when she called him, and before he was a mile off. It is no coincidence that he was in the vicinity of an area where he hunted before.

Things do get worse, and that is exactly what happened to Dany in ADWD, we cant compare Dany's bad to other character's bad because every character's arc is it's own story as GRRM stated. Focusing only on Dany's arc ADWD was clearly a bad situation for her she was basically a prisoner forced to accept decisions of others, Drogon's return was the turning point you speak of.

She will have to be in a bad situation again in TWoW where her life is in danger.She is in such a position in every book we have her POV: AGoT: the wineseller and the destruction of Drogo's khalasar with khos threatening her, ACoK: the Undying's attempts on her life, ASoS: Mero's attempt on her life, ADwD: the poisoned locusts. Again, GRRM makes the lows lower to make the highs higher. Dany will have to be at her lowest point before she becomes the StMtW just as Jon will be at his lowest point after the Ides of Marsh before he becomes the PtwP.

Your claim that "She had not made attempt to ride dragon while they were at Dragonstone" has been clearly debunked by text others have quoted.

No, I don't think it hasn't if one pays attention to the text. Multiple flights are never mentioned.

No, she didn't "crave human contact" from a man she thought "would kill her, rape her, or enslave her. At best, he would send her back to the crones of the dosh khaleen, where good khaleesi were supposed to go when their khals had died."

Then: "Dany watched him go. When the sound of his hooves had faded away to silence, she began to shout. She called until her voice was hoarse … and Drogon came, snorting plumes of smoke. The grass bowed down before him. Dany leapt onto his back. She stank of blood and sweat and fear, but none of that mattered. “To go forward I must go back,” she said. Her bare legs tightened around the dragon’s neck. She kicked him, and Drogon threw himself into the sky. Her whip was gone, so she used her hands and feet and turned him north by east, the way the scout had gone."

Twice previous in this chapter, she thought "If I look back I am lost" in reference to forging ahead to Meereen and not going back to Drogon. Her acceptance of "To go forward I must go back" means she's turned back from her plan to walk to Meereen and is clearly trying to go back to the Dothraki. This dovetails with her suspicion that someone tried to poison her and her realization that she's surrendered too much to her enemies, her acceptance of "fire and blood." She intends to return to Meereen with an army.

"To go forward I must go back" might be a hint to the reader. She would have wanted human contact after having been isolated so long, and safe atop Drogon she could have asked the Dothraki directions to Meereen. She had already gone back to the Dothraki Sea, and had her wilderness sabbatical.

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She will have to be in a bad situation again in TWoW where her life is in danger.She is in such a position in every book we have her POV: AGoT: the wineseller and the destruction of Drogo's khalasar with khos threatening her, ACoK: the Undying's attempts on her life, ASoS: Mero's attempt on her life, ADwD: the poisoned locusts. Again, GRRM makes the lows lower to make the highs higher. Dany will have to be at her lowest point before she becomes the StMtW just as Jon will be at his lowest point after the Ides of Marsh before he becomes the PtwP.

I think being lost in the middle of nowhere, dressed pretty much in rags, sick and shitting all over the place and most likely having a miscarriage on top of that is about as low as you can get. But that is just me.

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No, I don't think it hasn't if one pays attention to the text. Multiple flights are never mentioned.




They are repeatedly overtly referenced and can't be reasonably denied. "First flight" clearly denotes that it wasn't the only one, as does describing how she'd "oft felt" while riding him, and how Drogon "sometimes" did this and "sometimes" did that while flying with her, and how he won't take her to Meereen - not that he won't let her fly him at all, but that he specifically won't take her in a certain direction - and how part of her wants to stay on Dragonstone, "riding Drogon by day." "she had been strangely happy here. A few aches, an empty belly, chills by night … what does it matter when you can fly? I would do it all again."



"To go forward I must go back" might be a hint to the reader.


Yes, it's a massive hint to the reader that she's decided against immediately returning to Meereen. In pushing herself to continue walking to Meereen, she twice thinks to herself, "If I look back I am lost." Then after seeing the Dothraki scout she has an epiphany and completely reverses course, accepting that "To go forward I must go back" and steering Drogon toward the Dothraki, away from Meereen.



She would have wanted human contact after having been isolated so long, and safe atop Drogon she could have asked the Dothraki directions to Meereen. She had already gone back to the Dothraki Sea, and had her wilderness sabbatical.




Clearly wrong, as she already believed she knew the way to Meereen and she flew Drogon past the scout.

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Actually, no it never mentions other flights, and it isn't clearly spelled, it is what you interpret it to be. Whether or not she had ridden Drogon more than once, that still would have been her first flight, so that can't be used to support your case. As to the first quote it mentions her on Drogon's back, it doesn't mention how many times. She likely struck him with the whip when she could have ridden him back to his cave, the trip would have been many hours. Oft could have referred to the different feelings she had riding Drogon, the feeling most often felt was learning to ride again.

Drogon has come this way before, she realized. Like a chain of grey islands, the marks of his hunting dotted the green grass sea.

He was following a regular hunting path as the burn marks Dany saw in grass plainly show Drogon had hunted there many times before. He came down to where she was only when she called him, and before he was a mile off. It is no coincidence that he was in the vicinity of an area where he hunted before.

She will have to be in a bad situation again in TWoW where her life is in danger.She is in such a position in every book we have her POV: AGoT: the wineseller and the destruction of Drogo's khalasar with khos threatening her, ACoK: the Undying's attempts on her life, ASoS: Mero's attempt on her life, ADwD: the poisoned locusts. Again, GRRM makes the lows lower to make the highs higher. Dany will have to be at her lowest point before she becomes the StMtW just as Jon will be at his lowest point after the Ides of Marsh before he becomes the PtwP.

No, I don't think it hasn't if one pays attention to the text. Multiple flights are never mentioned.

"To go forward I must go back" might be a hint to the reader. She would have wanted human contact after having been isolated so long, and safe atop Drogon she could have asked the Dothraki directions to Meereen. She had already gone back to the Dothraki Sea, and had her wilderness sabbatical.

C'mon now, multiple flights are mentioned. You are reading those sentences wrongly. "Was the first flight a thousand years ago?"

There is absolutely no other reason she would refer to it as the 'first flight' unless there were other flights after it. If there were no other flights she would have worded it differently. She would have said "Did we leave Meereen a thousand years ago." or "Was that flight a thousand years ago?"

I think you are right that sometimes the text can be interpreted many ways. But this is not one of those times. I promise she rode him more than once.

If you have two children you might say, "this is our first child, Robert"

If you have one child you say "this is our child, Robert"

If you had been to New York twice you could say, "The first time we went to New York it was crowded",

If you have been to New York once you would say. "When we went to New York it was crowded"

If you have only one of something you don't put a number in front of it, like first, second or third.

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Actually, no it never mentions other flights, and it isn't clearly spelled, it is what you interpret it to be. Whether or not she had ridden Drogon more than once, that still would have been her first flight, so that can't be used to support your case. As to the first quote it mentions her on Drogon's back, it doesn't mention how many times. She likely struck him with the whip when she could have ridden him back to his cave, the trip would have been many hours. Oft could have referred to the different feelings she had riding Drogon, the feeling most often felt was learning to ride again.

Drogon has come this way before, she realized. Like a chain of grey islands, the marks of his hunting dotted the green grass sea.

He was following a regular hunting path as the burn marks Dany saw in grass plainly show Drogon had hunted there many times before. He came down to where she was only when she called him, and before he was a mile off. It is no coincidence that he was in the vicinity of an area where he hunted before.

She will have to be in a bad situation again in TWoW where her life is in danger.She is in such a position in every book we have her POV: AGoT: the wineseller and the destruction of Drogo's khalasar with khos threatening her, ACoK: the Undying's attempts on her life, ASoS: Mero's attempt on her life, ADwD: the poisoned locusts. Again, GRRM makes the lows lower to make the highs higher. Dany will have to be at her lowest point before she becomes the StMtW just as Jon will be at his lowest point after the Ides of Marsh before he becomes the PtwP.

No, I don't think it hasn't if one pays attention to the text. Multiple flights are never mentioned.

"To go forward I must go back" might be a hint to the reader. She would have wanted human contact after having been isolated so long, and safe atop Drogon she could have asked the Dothraki directions to Meereen. She had already gone back to the Dothraki Sea, and had her wilderness sabbatical.

There is no evidence to prove Drogon was just following a hunting path, that is just an assumption, however we have evidence that Dany steered him in the direction she wanted and he obeyed. The main point at hand is that Dany changed her direction from Meereen.

As others have stated she's shitting blood and was on verge on death how else low do you want her to go?

Mulitple flights are mentioned, Suzanne Stormborn brought quotes I don't see why you are rejecting what's in the text Dany stated "she oft felt" oft means often which means she meant "She often felt like she was learning to ride again" no one would use the word often after just one flight.

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C'mon now, multiple flights are mentioned. You are reading those sentences wrongly. "Was the first flight a thousand years ago?"

There is absolutely no other reason she would refer to it as the 'first flight' unless there were other flights after it. If there were no other flights she would have worded it differently. She would have said "Did we leave Meereen a thousand years ago." or "Was that flight a thousand years ago?"

As I already stated before, that flight would still be here first flight regardless whether or not she had anymore flights after that.

I think you are right that sometimes the text can be interpreted many ways. But this is not one of those times. I promise she rode him more than once.

Actually, I think that is just you personal opinion.

If you have two children you might say, "this is our first child, Robert"

If you have one child you say "this is our child, Robert"

If you had been to New York twice you could say, "The first time we went to New York it was crowded",

If you have been to New York once you would say. "When we went to New York it was crowded"

See above, Dany plans on riding Drogon again, and it is still her first flight.

There is no evidence to prove Drogon was just following a hunting path, that is just an assumption, however we have evidence that Dany steered him in the direction she wanted and he obeyed. The main point at hand is that Dany changed her direction from Meereen.

As others have stated she's shitting blood and was on verge on death how else low do you want her to go?

Mulitple flights are mentioned, Suzanne Stormborn brought quotes I don't see why you are rejecting what's in the text Dany stated "she oft felt" oft means often which means she meant "She often felt like she was learning to ride again" no one would use the word often after just one flight.

No evidence? Then where did the burn spots come from? Drogon had clearly hunted there before, and it is no coincidence he was closeby that location when Dany called to him. THe only time Drogon leaves his cave is to feed.

Except she wasn't in mortal danger, and in all those times her life-threatening situation was caused by other people. She isn't at her lowest yet.

Multiple flights aren't mentioned. I think your making too broad a statement, one can have more than one feeling in a single flight, just as one can experience many feelings on a roller coaster.

I think being lost in the middle of nowhere, dressed pretty much in rags, sick and shitting all over the place and most likely having a miscarriage on top of that is about as low as you can get. But that is just me.

Except her life isn't in danger.

They are repeatedly overtly referenced and can't be reasonably denied. "First flight" clearly denotes that it wasn't the only one, as does describing how she'd "oft felt" while riding him, and how Drogon "sometimes" did this and "sometimes" did that while flying with her, and how he won't take her to Meereen - not that he won't let her fly him at all, but that he specifically won't take her in a certain direction - and how part of her wants to stay on Dragonstone, "riding Drogon by day." "she had been strangely happy here. A few aches, an empty belly, chills by night … what does it matter when you can fly? I would do it all again."

No, it doesn't it is still her first flight regardless if she rode Drogon a few more times up to that point.

Yes, it's a massive hint to the reader that she's decided against immediately returning to Meereen. In pushing herself to continue walking to Meereen, she twice thinks to herself, "If I look back I am lost." Then after seeing the Dothraki scout she has an epiphany and completely reverses course, accepting that "To go forward I must go back" and steering Drogon toward the Dothraki, away from Meereen.

Except she hasn't given any indication of going back to Vd, or being the StMtW. She could have simply been asking for directions or slaking curiosity since she hadn't been in contact with other people for a while.

Clearly wrong, as she already believed she knew the way to Meereen and she flew Drogon past the scout.

Clearly wrong? You have nothing in the text to explicitly back up that claim, and are stating your personal opinion as matter-of-factly. She expressed no indication to go to VD.

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